2013 Feb Plugin Sales Discussion : Volt 1626 ; Leaf 653

[DaveinOlyWA]

i think we all need to keep in mind that the LEAF is not Nissan's end game. its just the beginning of what we all hope will be a very long line of EVs tailored to many different lifestyles and needs.

but for longer range driving in the 150 mile range, it will be something else. of that, there is little doubt. like I said, i fully expect the LEAF to offer multiple pack options starting (i hope) as early as next year which give TN a year to work out the kinks but the max I see is 100-110 miles along with the current 80 miles.

I think they will move to a smaller lighter platform for anything shorter than that so dont think you will see less than what is available now.

 

[finman100]

untrue on worthless plug-ins... i mean 100+ mpg is worth something. plugins are more about using the right tool for the right job (gas for longer range, electric for short) with efficiency unmatched in hybrid-onlys.

 

[MrIanB]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish?

Ian B

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish?

Ian B

i think all manufacturers are investigating the extended range hybrid option. just balking at the price and reduced profit margins right now i think

 

[adric22]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish?

As far as we know, the only company that has ruled this out is Tesla. They said the considered a range extender I.C.E. and in the end they decided it was better for their company to concentrate solely on electric vehicles only.

 

[scottf200]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish? Ian B

In the last few days news:

Volvo Says Buyers Don’t Want Quirky Dedicated Electric Vehicles Like the Nissan LEAF
http://insideevs.com/volvo-says-buyers-dont-want-quirky-dedicated-electric-vehicles-like-the-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jaguar Boss: EVs Not A Mass-Market Solution, Cut Subsidies
http://insideevs.com/jaguar-boss-evs-not-a-mass-market-solution-cut-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Audi Commits to Plug-In Hybrids; Shifting Away From Pure Electric Vehicles
http://insideevs.com/audi-commits-to-plug-in-hybrids-shifting-away-from-pure-electric-vehicles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[GetOffYourGas]

There are afew things i would like to point out as well.

What u r suggesting would put all the exra weigbt into one very small lacatikn located in an areathat is already maxed out in weight. So it aint as easy as moving thjngs an inch there and an inch hede to make it fit..
We will see larver packs in the LEAF but incrementally so until the weight of the current technology is reduced. A lot of people may wonder why more dont copy tesla withthe very large but thin platform and its simply cost. Tesla saved money by using them but i think that is a long term mistake. Nissan is spending the research dollars now and that has the potential to pay dividends later. They still have a lot to learn butthat is the only way u can learn is by doing it

First, since I'm suggesting that it may soon be possible to put more batteries in the existing envelope, the weight is very well situated, and distributed to all four wheel. Then, there would be extra weight in the trunk, but certainly not *all* of it. Plus, that area is hardly maxed out in weight. If that were true, you would have a large trunk that you can't use! Adding weight can be compensated for with stronger suspension. Hardly a deal breaker.

An extra 67% battery capacity would not add 67% more range, probably closer to 50% more. But that's still nothing to scoff at. The key is options. We're only starting to get options in the plug-in space, and Nissan needs to offer more if they want to maintain a significant market share.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

There are afew things i would like to point out as well.

What u r suggesting would put all the exra weigbt into one very small lacatikn located in an areathat is already maxed out in weight. So it aint as easy as moving thjngs an inch there and an inch hede to make it fit..
We will see larver packs in the LEAF but incrementally so until the weight of the current technology is reduced. A lot of people may wonder why more dont copy tesla withthe very large but thin platform and its simply cost. Tesla saved money by using them but i think that is a long term mistake. Nissan is spending the research dollars now and that has the potential to pay dividends later. They still have a lot to learn butthat is the only way u can learn is by doing it

First, since I'm suggesting that it may soon be possible to put more batteries in the existing envelope, the weight is very well situated, and distributed to all four wheel. Then, there would be extra weight in the trunk, but certainly not *all* of it. Plus, that area is hardly maxed out in weight. If that were true, you would have a large trunk that you can't use! Adding weight can be compensated for with stronger suspension. Hardly a deal breaker.

An extra 67% battery capacity would not add 67% more range, probably closer to 50% more. But that's still nothing to scoff at. The key is options. We're only starting to get options in the plug-in space, and Nissan needs to offer more if they want to maintain a significant market share.

so you are suggesting we sacrifice storage for battery capacity? might want to ask some "former" C-Max Energi enthusiasts about that idea. you cant add 200 lbs of battery without changing cargo load parameters if you do then you have to change everything else

what we need to realize is that added weight changes the balance and dynamics of the car especially that much weight. crash testing, bracing, crumple zones, etc. all have to be redesigned. not an easy, insignificant or cheap thing to do and would take several months of development at best to acomplish

 

[Jay]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish? Ian B

In the last few days news:

Volvo Says Buyers Don’t Want Quirky Dedicated Electric Vehicles Like the Nissan LEAF
http://insideevs.com/volvo-says-buyers-dont-want-quirky-dedicated-electric-vehicles-like-the-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jaguar Boss: EVs Not A Mass-Market Solution, Cut Subsidies
http://insideevs.com/jaguar-boss-evs-not-a-mass-market-solution-cut-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Audi Commits to Plug-In Hybrids; Shifting Away From Pure Electric Vehicles
http://insideevs.com/audi-commits-to-plug-in-hybrids-shifting-away-from-pure-electric-vehicles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

...been a really depressing news cycle this week. We need something positive to write about, lol.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

so you are suggesting we sacrifice storage for battery capacity?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Again, I've said multiple times that this should be an option. I have never filled the trunk completely, even after hitting BJ's for a month's groceries. I would gladly give up a few cubic feet of space for a few more miles of range. I have a plethora of regular destinations that are just out of range for me. If you would rather have the storage space than the range, then you should have the option to choose that.

Nissan keeps dropping hints that they will soon offer such options. I really hope they do before my lease is up in 2015. It would also be a good way to utilize the battery production capacity at Smyrna (enough for up to 200,000 leaf batteries per year!) without having to sell that many Leafs.

might want to ask some "former" C-Max Energi enthusiasts about that idea. you cant add 200 lbs of battery without changing cargo load parameters if you do then you have to change everything else

what we need to realize is that added weight changes the balance and dynamics of the car especially that much weight. crash testing, bracing, crumple zones, etc. all have to be redesigned. not an easy, insignificant or cheap thing to do and would take several months of development at best to acomplish

Agreed and agreed. On all of the points above. Yes, a lot of people have been turned off by the Energi's intrusive battery pack. But those people have the option to buy the Hybrid instead, with a smaller battery and less (i.e. NO) pure electric range.

You seem to be repeating the same story again and again without acknowledging that we agree on a lot more than we disagree

 

[evnow]

Yes, a lot of people have been turned off by the Energi's intrusive battery pack. But those people have the option to buy the Hybrid instead, with a smaller battery and less (i.e. NO) pure electric range.

Or wait for Outlander PHEV.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

so you are suggesting we sacrifice storage for battery capacity?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Again, I've said multiple times that this should be an option. I have never filled the trunk completely, even after hitting BJ's for a month's groceries. I would gladly give up a few cubic feet of space for a few more miles of range. I have a plethora of regular destinations that are just out of range for me. If you would rather have the storage space than the range, then you should have the option to choose that.

Nissan keeps dropping hints that they will soon offer such options. I really hope they do before my lease is up in 2015. It would also be a good way to utilize the battery production capacity at Smyrna (enough for up to 200,000 leaf batteries per year!) without having to sell that many Leafs.

might want to ask some "former" C-Max Energi enthusiasts about that idea. you cant add 200 lbs of battery without changing cargo load parameters if you do then you have to change everything else

what we need to realize is that added weight changes the balance and dynamics of the car especially that much weight. crash testing, bracing, crumple zones, etc. all have to be redesigned. not an easy, insignificant or cheap thing to do and would take several months of development at best to acomplish

Agreed and agreed. On all of the points above. Yes, a lot of people have been turned off by the Energi's intrusive battery pack. But those people have the option to buy the Hybrid instead, with a smaller battery and less (i.e. NO) pure electric range.

You seem to be repeating the same story again and again without acknowledging that we agree on a lot more than we disagree

oh i am with you 100% and that should be clear. I am an "more options" kind of guy but just saying the LEAF is what it is and no more. if you want longer range, you will have to look at another platform and Nissan will be providing that platform but until we see a significant improvement in batteries and who knows when that will happen? there is several dozen options being developed but other than initial press releases announcing the potential, there is little else to read.

 

[edatoakrun]

'13 LEAF sales news from Japan:

...In Japan, the LEAF has similarly been cut in price, down to 2.213 million yen after various subsidies (about $25,000USD), and where it has also just completed it first month of being available nationwide.

How well did the new LEAF sell? Nissan posted their 2nd best result of all-time of the EV, with 1,455 2013 LEAFs sold, a number that has only been surpassed once before…and that was during the vehicle’s first full month of availability in Japan in February of 2011...

http://insideevs.com/does-the-sales-rebirth-of-the-nissan-leaf-in-japan-forecast-big-things-for-the-us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jawshoeaw]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish? Ian B

In the last few days news:

Volvo Says Buyers Don’t Want Quirky Dedicated Electric Vehicles Like the Nissan LEAF
http://insideevs.com/volvo-says-buyers-dont-want-quirky-dedicated-electric-vehicles-like-the-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jaguar Boss: EVs Not A Mass-Market Solution, Cut Subsidies
http://insideevs.com/jaguar-boss-evs-not-a-mass-market-solution-cut-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Audi Commits to Plug-In Hybrids; Shifting Away From Pure Electric Vehicles
http://insideevs.com/audi-commits-to-plug-in-hybrids-shifting-away-from-pure-electric-vehicles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This from three of the most irrelevant car companies (IMO).

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Will Nissan consider a Volt version of any of their models to compete with Volt when range is an issue in the future? Just wondering to help their overall numbers vs losing a Leaf sale due to range that another Nissan Volt like model can accomplish? Ian B

In the last few days news:

Volvo Says Buyers Don’t Want Quirky Dedicated Electric Vehicles Like the Nissan LEAF
http://insideevs.com/volvo-says-buyers-dont-want-quirky-dedicated-electric-vehicles-like-the-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jaguar Boss: EVs Not A Mass-Market Solution, Cut Subsidies
http://insideevs.com/jaguar-boss-evs-not-a-mass-market-solution-cut-subsidies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Audi Commits to Plug-In Hybrids; Shifting Away From Pure Electric Vehicles
http://insideevs.com/audi-commits-to-plug-in-hybrids-shifting-away-from-pure-electric-vehicles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This from three of the most irrelevant car companies (IMO).

"shifting away from electrics?" when did they shift TO electric?

or is that the same as Nissan shifting away from electrics because they are offering more EREVs over regular gas cars?