2013 Apr Plugin Sales Discussion : Leaf 1,936 ; Volt 1,306

[Maxvla]

In CA, many buy PHEVs just for the HOV lane sticker.

Which is why I'm puzzled at the low/lowering Plug In Prius numbers ... even if you don't plug it in you get great MPGs. (Last Monday I *only* got 42 MPG driving my Volt on gas only for 200+ miles - 42 is from a reset of the odo after ran out of battery.)

I'm puzzled they are selling at all. My best guess is that the number of people willing to pay a hefty premium just for the HOV sticker is limited.

How many people would pay a premium to be able to get 1/2 an hour more sleep every day? There's also the ability to shuffle your morning more efficiently. If you have a kid that needs to go to school before you drive to work, a longer commute means you have to drop the kid off much earlier than they need to be, this means the kid has to be up earlier which means you need to be up earlier than if you didn't have drop them off. If your commute is 1/2 an hour shorter, you can wake the kid later meaning you get up later, drop them off at a more reasonable time, then get to work on time and everyone is much happier. Hard to put a price on that.

 

[Valdemar]

snip How many people would pay a premium to be able to get 1/2 an hour more sleep every day? snip

Take all those people who can really benefit from HOV lane access, subtract those who don't want or can't pay a premium for that, and you end up with the weak PiP sales numbers. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Maxvla]

Sorry I didn't mean to be specifically talking about the PiP, just the premium on PHEVs in general to get HOV access. Some people have bought a PHEV ONLY because of HOV access. Saving gas or saving the world is a distant concern to them. If you could turn that extra 1/2 hour into wage earning even at minimum wage that's $92 a month gross if only working M-F (when HOV is more important). If your place of employ allowed you to do that, the difference between a HOV vehicle and a non HOV vehicle leaving at the same time is an extra $100+ per month for most people. If you are on a salary, you wouldn't be able to get any extra money, but your life would be less stressful because of more sleep, or at least more time in the morning to get things done.

If you can get extra money by leaving the same time you used to, but now have HOV access, between that and the fuel savings, you should be making/saving more than your payment on the HOV eligible car.

 

[Valdemar]

^^^ I was just commenting on the low PiP sales numbers. Unlike the PiP most other PHEVs have longer (read: useful) electric-only range, so there are other reasons to buy them in addition to HOV lanes access.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the low PiP #'s were to be expected. most of the early flurry of sales I feel were CA based anyway and that is dying down but did not expect it to die down that fast. looks like Nissan's price cuts might have worked but still pretty early to tell. we c how it looks in another 4-5 months or so

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I don't believe the PiP is available nationwide yet... http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/#!/Welcome" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; says

When and where will the Prius Plug-in be available?

The Prius Plug-in became available at participating dealers starting in March 2012 in 15 states : Arizona, California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia and Washington. Availability in additional states is currently under study. Visit the Toyota Hawaii site for more information on purchasing a Prius Plug-in in Hawaii.

Most of those states are CARB or partial CARB emissions states.

 

[LEAFfan]

How much is that CA HOV sticker? Here, our blue HOV plate only costs about $12/yr. And hybrids/bi-fuel no longer qualify.

 

[TomT]

It also depends on where you live and work. Around here, the HOV lane is almost as crowded as the regular lanes so it saves only a few minutes in general... Certainly not worth thousands of dollars for only the privilege...

How many people would pay a premium to be able to get 1/2 an hour more sleep every day?

 

[evnow]

This may be an unpopular view but personally, outside of the Volt, I see little reason to buy a PHEV. Their range is simply too limited and the cost too high... If you are not going to buy a BEV, a HEV makes more sense than the current crop of PHEVs.

Completely disagree.

20 mile range PHEV is great for someone with a commute of less than 20 miles. Remember max amount of gas is spent driving close to home - because you do it everyday.

Let us not make "perfect" the enemy of the "good".

 

[GRA]

This may be an unpopular view but personally, outside of the Volt, I see little reason to buy a PHEV. Their range is simply too limited and the cost too high... If you are not going to buy a BEV, a HEV makes more sense than the current crop of PHEVs.

Completely disagree.

20 mile range PHEV is great for someone with a commute of less than 20 miles. Remember max amount of gas is spent driving close to home - because you do it everyday.

Let us not make "perfect" the enemy of the "good".

Agreed. The smaller the battery that works for someone, the cheaper the car, the more people that can afford it, and the better the ICE performance (from lower weight). Most people only need the battery for city or stop-and-go driving, which is when EV mode has the greatest benefits both economically and environmentally. A variety of PHEVs with different AER ranges will get more people into them sooner. That being said, I don't think the PiP provides enough benefit for the money over the regular Prius - If the Prius could go 11 miles AER continuously instead of being limited to 6 miles (11 total) using light throttle and lower speeds, it would be a better deal and a better car.

More on-topic, I think the Volt is facing a lot more competition than the Leaf right now. The C-Max and especially the Fusion Energi, plus the Accord PHEV and the PiP are all possible Volt sales losses. In March 2012 it only faced the PiP (which had just come out), and there was a yawning price and performance gap between the two cars - not so with the Fusion and Accord.

The Leaf's current sub-$40k competition is the nearly moribund and low-performance i, the Focus, and the expensive, lease-only and essentially un-advertised Fit; I think only the Focus really competes, and it's got cargo space and price issues. I expect when the better-performing, more fun driving 500e and Spark EV appear they'll take away some Leaf sales, and maybe even the Smart ED will steal a few for customers with minimalist car needs.

 

[Zythryn]

Competitors for EVs are currently very odd, taking very dissimilar cars and making them competitors.
I also believe every new EV and PHEV will help bring more people into the EV/PHEV market.
So while there will be some sale losses due to new competitors, it will also increase the size of the market.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

This may be an unpopular view but personally, outside of the Volt, I see little reason to buy a PHEV. Their range is simply too limited and the cost too high... If you are not going to buy a BEV, a HEV makes more sense than the current crop of PHEVs.

Completely disagree.

20 mile range PHEV is great for someone with a commute of less than 20 miles. Remember max amount of gas is spent driving close to home - because you do it everyday.

Let us not make "perfect" the enemy of the "good".

+1 and I for one was VERY motivated to get an Energi because that 20 mile range is what i wanted because the gas car still has to make those one mile trips to Safeway and what not because the LEAF being used as much as it has been lately is simply not home all the time. also, my SO's commute is 9 miles so she would literally be all electric most of the time.

the other thing to think about is charge sustain mode. I know a guy who has a 30 mile RT commute in a PiP and is getting 80 mpg with his less than pathetic battery capacity. a C-Max could average 80 mpg on a 100 mile trip or whatever. so its all really relative. There is really a huge value in a 20 mile electric range.

But, saw the C-Max Energi at the Lacey Fair yesterday and it was just soooo...tragic. The "rear-mounted" glovebox is still a source of confusion for me.

for anyone who hasnt seen one, Ford refers to it as the "rear hatch storage"

 

[adric22]

More on-topic, I think the Volt is facing a lot more competition than the Leaf right now. The C-Max and especially the Fusion Energi, plus the Accord PHEV and the PiP are all possible Volt sales losses. In March 2012 it only faced the PiP (which had just come out), and there was a yawning price and performance gap between the two cars - not so with the Fusion and Accord.

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think this is actually what is happening. I actually think the Volt is beginning to lose a lot of customers on the high end to Tesla. And on the low end to the Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

More on-topic, I think the Volt is facing a lot more competition than the Leaf right now. The C-Max and especially the Fusion Energi, plus the Accord PHEV and the PiP are all possible Volt sales losses. In March 2012 it only faced the PiP (which had just come out), and there was a yawning price and performance gap between the two cars - not so with the Fusion and Accord.

I understand where you are coming from, but I don't think this is actually what is happening. I actually think the Volt is beginning to lose a lot of customers on the high end to Tesla. And on the low end to the Leaf.

the Tesla statement might be believable but the LEAF has always been cheaper and its major sticking points (range) has not been resolved so not sure why that is happening now.

 

[jelloslug]

might add up to LEAFs 2nd best month ever but still disappointing to me. I am really surprised the numbers did not go up especially since all of March was still restocking the dealers which was supposed to have been completed at the end of April.

When I lease mine mid March there were 12 Leafs available between 5 dealerships locally. Right now there are 3 available. Looks to me that there are still supply issues.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

might add up to LEAFs 2nd best month ever but still disappointing to me. I am really surprised the numbers did not go up especially since all of March was still restocking the dealers which was supposed to have been completed at the end of April.

When I lease mine mid March there were 12 Leafs available between 5 dealerships locally. Right now there are 3 available. Looks to me that there are still supply issues.

glad to hear you got a LEAF! how do u like it (as if I had to ask )

 

[jackal]

the Tesla statement might be believable but the LEAF has always been cheaper and its major sticking points (range) has not been resolved so not sure why that is happening now.

I believe it. The new Leaf S model has made it that much more affordable. Although I suspect the truth of why volt sales has stagnated is a combination of PHEVs as well as the the new EVs.

 

[jelloslug]

might add up to LEAFs 2nd best month ever but still disappointing to me. I am really surprised the numbers did not go up especially since all of March was still restocking the dealers which was supposed to have been completed at the end of April.

When I lease mine mid March there were 12 Leafs available between 5 dealerships locally. Right now there are 3 available. Looks to me that there are still supply issues.

glad to hear you got a LEAF! how do u like it (as if I had to ask )

Looks like I will have a hard time staying within the allotted mileage. We drive it everywhere now.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Looks like I will have a hard time staying within the allotted mileage. We drive it everywhere now.

yep, having the same problem here. they added a few quick charge stations which has really increased my ability to cruise. at my current pace I will be at 45,000 miles in October. (lease ends Jan 18th)

 

[edatoakrun]

Video interview with CG in which he mentions total LEAF sales, what is required to sell more LEAFs, and that the LEAF effort is now focused on doing just that.

With apologies for the appropriation of the quote, perhaps "there are few more impressive sights in the world than a Brazillian on the make".

CEO Ghosn: Look, we’re following the course. We are following the plan. We said we’re going to continue to simplify the car, we’re going to localize the car, we’re going to reduce the cost, and we’re going to give as much benefit as possible to the consumer, so we can increase the sales of the LEAF. We hit 62,000 LEAF (sales) already. We are by far the carmaker with the most sales of the electric car in the history of this industry, and we believe that this is going to be an important segment of the car industry.

So, we are going to continue to lobby for more infrastructure. This is the No. 1 reason for which the sales are not growing faster. We’re going to continue to simplify the product, to localize the product, to reduce the cost, and pass it to the consumer.

The LEAF is here to stay. The main objective now that we have a car that drives very well, that people who have been using it for two years are very happy with, very satisfied with, is selling it.

http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-we-believe-in-evs-the-leaf-is-here-to-stay-the-main-objective-now-is-selling-it-video/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;