2013 Apr Plugin Sales Discussion : Leaf 1,936 ; Volt 1,306

[TomT]

In L.A., few people have a commute of less than 20 miles (if you are driving a PIP, it has to be a lot less than 20 miles), or the ability to plug in at work. Tracking the typical driving we do with the Leaf, there is almost no time that we would not have been on gas with the typical PIP all-electric range. With the Volt's range, it makes sense. With less range, much less so.

I reiterate: At the price point I don't believe that current PHEVs other than the Volt make much sense or that there is much ROI for the vast majority of drivers... Tepid sales in the PHEV market - other than Volts - would seem to support that conclusion.

But then, when it comes time to dump the Leaf at the end of my lease, I'll also move on to something else as my expectations have broadened and the current Leaf no longer meets them either...

This may be an unpopular view but personally, outside of the Volt, I see little reason to buy a PHEV. Their range is simply too limited and the cost too high... If you are not going to buy a BEV, a HEV makes more sense than the current crop of PHEVs.

Completely disagree. 20 mile range PHEV is great for someone with a commute of less than 20 miles. Remember max amount of gas is spent driving close to home - because you do it everyday.

 

[evnow]

In L.A., few people have a commute of less than 20 miles (if you are driving a PIP, it has to be a lot less than 20 miles), or the ability to plug in at work. Tracking the typical driving we do with the Leaf, there is almost no time that we would not have been on gas with the typical PIP all-electric range. With the Volt's range, it makes sense. With less range, much less so.

There is a world out there outside LA !

 

[TomT]

Southern California represents a very large segment of the potential EV mark and my observations apply to a good percentage of it... Plus, such considerations are also representative of a good portion of the EV "country" in general. I stick by comments that the ROI is not there on a very limited range PHEV... When rebates and credits finally dry up - and they will - you won't be able to give them away at current prices...

In L.A., few people have a commute of less than 20 miles (if you are driving a PIP, it has to be a lot less than 20 miles), or the ability to plug in at work. Tracking the typical driving we do with the Leaf, there is almost no time that we would not have been on gas with the typical PIP all-electric range. With the Volt's range, it makes sense. With less range, much less so.

There is a world out there outside LA !

 

[evnow]

Southern California represents a very large segment of the potential EV mark and my observations apply to a good percentage of it... Plus, such considerations are also representative of a good portion of the EV "country" in general. I stick by comments that the ROI is not there on a very limited range PHEV... When rebates and credits finally dry up - and they will - you won't be able to give them away at current prices...

ROI is not good on any (say 99.9999%) new car - since it is an expense and not an investment. We need to look at this from CO2 savings as well as oil savings.

My nearest Nissan dealer sold 3x the number of Leafs as he did Altimas. Overall Nissan sold 10x the number of Altimas as Leafs. So, we can completely ignore southern CA and if PHEVs make sense somewhere else, they would be good for the "foreign oil" angle & the environment.

BTW, you guys in southern CA have a huge sprawl problem. You need to fix it instead of saying PHEVs don't make sense. Just saying ...

 

[evnow]

Charts for April - I forgot to post earlier.