SF BayLEAFs - e-NV200 Ride & Drives and Showcase May 28

[waidy]

The Mountain View Nissan office is not very big, but it might fit. They have a big parking lot (share with other tenants in the building) but there were no charger. However, there are ~72 Coulomb chargers at the Goggle headquarter which is a walking distance from the Nissan's Mountain View office. I don't know how accessible is the 75 coulomb chargers. You may need a google batch. If you were curious, the address is 2085 LANDINGS DR, MT VIEW 94043 (I forget the suite number).

 

[linkim]

Has anyone inquired to see if we could have a full BayLeaf meeting at the Nissan office?
If they have special visitors on October 8th, perhaps the meeting could take place there?

We will certainly inquire about the option of holding the meeting at NIssan MV at the appropriate time. According to waidy, the parking lot is large enough for many Leafs to park, but the size of the meeting room could be iffy.

The Mountain View Nissan office is not very big, but it might fit. They have a big parking lot (share with other tenants in the building) but there were no charger. However, there are ~72 Coulomb chargers at the Goggle headquarter which is a walking distance from the Nissan's Mountain View office. I don't know how accessible is the 75 coulomb chargers. You may need a google batch. If you were curious, the address is 2085 LANDINGS DR, MT VIEW 94043 (I forget the suite number).

 

[TEG]

Those Google Coulombs are in an area easy to get to (NOT behind a locked gate), but they have private activation enabled for the Coulomb cards. I wonder if we had one Google employee with a Coulomb card if they could activate a bunch of available EVSEs?

 

[gascant]

Meeting minutes amended to include all battery and human powered vehicles. Forgot to include the Volt on the first go-round.

BTW, Mrs. gascant (who's not a MNF participant) told me today that several library users came over to her in the parking lot to ask what was going on. So she told them it was the LEAF Electric Vehicle Owner's Club. Good way to get some exposure.

BTW**2: The SOC meter came in very handy on Saturday night as we were returning home from dinner and decided to make a side trip to get some frozen yogurt. We dropped to 1 red bar with a low battery warning at about 72 miles (13 miles projected range). After the yogurt stop, we had no bars and 7 miles range showing (with ~5.5 to get home). But the SOC meter at that point was showing 15% so we confidently ( :roll: ) set off in ECO mode, and made it home with 10% charge remaining but flashing lights on our dash.

 

[Volusiano]

Ingineer announced he is working on a 10 kW prototype on-board charger that is J1772 compatible. No pricing or launch date is available.

That would be so cool if Phil can come up with such a solution at an affordable price.

I remember last time he discussed the 3.3kW upgrade he said that the existing wiring to the 3.3kW charger to the back is not beefy enough to support a simple swap of the 3.3kW for the 6.6kW. So I'm very curious to find out where a 10kW charger would fit and how the wiring are going to be run.

Then there's also the issue of running the coolant to the charger because even the 3.3kW charger already requires a cooling system as is.

And there's also the issue of car warranty as well. Unless if it's something easily removable without a trace if you need to bring your car in for service.

Maybe an off-board portable 10kW charger that plugs into the CHAdeMO port would resolve a lot of these issues and it can be air cooled as well.

 

[mdh]

Ingineer announced he is working on a 10 kW prototype on-board charger that is J1772 compatible. No pricing or launch date is available.

That would be so cool if Phil can come up with such a solution at an affordable price.

I remember last time he discussed the 3.3kW upgrade he said that the existing wiring to the 3.3kW charger to the back is not beefy enough to support a simple swap of the 3.3kW for the 6.6kW. So I'm very curious to find out where a 10kW charger would fit and how the wiring are going to be run.

Then there's also the issue of running the coolant to the charger because even the 3.3kW charger already requires a cooling system as is.

And there's also the issue of car warranty as well. Unless if it's something easily removable without a trace if you need to bring your car in for service.

Maybe an off-board portable 10kW charger that plugs into the CHAdeMO port would resolve a lot of these issues and it can be air cooled as well.

I am not a EE, but too bad we can't have a small device that connects to the QC port?

 

[Deleted member 3147]

The Mountain View Nissan office is not very big, but it might fit. They have a big parking lot (share with other tenants in the building) but there were no charger. However, there are ~72 Coulomb chargers at the Goggle headquarter which is a walking distance from the Nissan's Mountain View office. I don't know how accessible is the 75 coulomb chargers. You may need a google batch. If you were curious, the address is 2085 LANDINGS DR, MT VIEW 94043 (I forget the suite number).

I work in the same building (different company, of course). The offices there are all pretty small and the building has some common conference rooms, but none large enough for this group.

BTW, there are no suite numbers, each suite has a different street address. Confuses visitors to no end.

And I sure as hell wish I had access to the Google chargers!

 

[arnolddeleon]

Ingineer announced he is working on a 10 kW prototype on-board charger that is J1772 compatible. No pricing or launch date is available.

That would be so cool if Phil can come up with such a solution at an affordable price.

I remember last time he discussed the 3.3kW upgrade he said that the existing wiring to the 3.3kW charger to the back is not beefy enough to support a simple swap of the 3.3kW for the 6.6kW. So I'm very curious to find out where a 10kW charger would fit and how the wiring are going to be run.

Then there's also the issue of running the coolant to the charger because even the 3.3kW charger already requires a cooling system as is.

And there's also the issue of car warranty as well. Unless if it's something easily removable without a trace if you need to bring your car in for service.

Maybe an off-board portable 10kW charger that plugs into the CHAdeMO port would resolve a lot of these issues and it can be air cooled as well.

You are on the right track. I was chatting with Phil afterwards and I got a little more information (hopefully it is ok to share). Think of an additional air cooled charger mounted in the car that intercepted the J1772 connector and feeding the batteries like the CHAdeMO port. As far as the car is concerned it was being charged via CHAdeMO. Once the battery reaches 80% the system would switch the J1772 back to the regular charger to finish charging. I'm personally hoping that they make it bi-directional.

arnold

 

[Volusiano]

You are on the right track. I was chatting with Phil afterwards and I got a little more information (hopefully it is ok to share). Think of an additional air cooled charger mounted in the car that intercepted the J1772 connector and feeding the batteries like the CHAdeMO port. As far as the car is concerned it was being charged via CHAdeMO. Once the battery reaches 80% the system would switch the J1772 back to the regular charger to finish charging. I'm personally hoping that they make it bi-directional.
arnold

Thanks for sharing, Arnold. I'm thinking home charge stations like the current Blink, while rated at 30A max, is only configurable to 12, 16 or 24A. So even at 24A, it's not even enough current to fully supply a 6.6kw charger, let alone a 10kw charger.

So in order to fully utilize a 10kw charger at home, I'd imagine that you will almost need to upgrade to a beefier charge station that will deliver the full 40A capacity the circuit is rated at. But maybe you can't run a circuit at its full capacity, so a new 50A circuit (and new line) must be installed?

How about when you're out and about plugging into L2 charging stations. Are any of them going to be beefy enough to deliver the 40A the 10kw charger needs?

Just trying to understand if the current infrastructure used to support 3.3kw or 6.6kw is going to be sufficient to fully utilize a 10kw charger without any further upgrade.

 

[arnolddeleon]

So in order to fully utilize a 10kw charger at home, I'd imagine that you will almost need to upgrade to a beefier charge station that will deliver the full 40A capacity the circuit is rated at. But maybe you can't run a circuit at its full capacity, so a new 50A circuit (and new line) must be installed?

How about when you're out and about plugging into L2 charging stations. Are any of them going to be beefy enough to deliver the 40A the 10kw charger needs?

Just trying to understand if the current infrastructure used to support 3.3kw or 6.6kw is going to be sufficient to fully utilize a 10kw charger without any further upgrade.

Most of the current EVSE won't support 10kW (The Tesla one should, I'm not going to look it up now since I probably should be asleep ;-). The same is true for most of the public ones.

arnold

 

[TEG]

Yes, there are a small number of Tesla HPCs installed in (semi) public locations that can charge at rates as high as 70A.
Some of them have been modified with J1772 plugs.

Check out this charging report for a location in San Luis Obispo:
http://www.evchargermaps.com/?SiteID=93401_4&Want=SPI%20LPI%20AVC%20OC&Zoom=17

...Updated: 7/21/2011 timothy reports: J1772 connector charged Tesla 1 hour at 203v/70a...

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/6007-Avcon-EVSE-to-14-50-receptacle-adapter-box?p=76428&viewfull=1#post76428

Lloyd wrote: The last two remaining Avcons in San Luis Obispo were converted to J1772 last week. Marsh street Garage.

The Tesla HPC, and other ClipperCreek/EVI based EVSEs are capable of being configured to go much higher than 30A, assuming appropriate wiring, breaker, and plug are attached.

 

[planet4ever]

So in order to fully utilize a 10kw charger at home, I'd imagine that you will almost need to upgrade to a beefier charge station that will deliver the full 40A capacity the circuit is rated at. But maybe you can't run a circuit at its full capacity, so a new 50A circuit (and new line) must be installed?

Do the math: volts * amps = watts
240 * x = 10000
x = 41.33 amps
Continuous load can never be more than 80% of circuit rating.
(10000 / 240) / 0.8 = 52.08 minimum circuit amperage.

Since there are no 53A or 55A circuit breakers, this would have to go on a 60A circuit.

Ray

 

[TEG]

Or configure it to pull 9.6kw from a 50 amp breaker...

 

[Volusiano]

So in order to fully utilize a 10kw charger at home, I'd imagine that you will almost need to upgrade to a beefier charge station that will deliver the full 40A capacity the circuit is rated at. But maybe you can't run a circuit at its full capacity, so a new 50A circuit (and new line) must be installed?

Do the math: volts * amps = watts
240 * x = 10000
x = 41.33 amps
Continuous load can never be more than 80% of circuit rating.
(10000 / 240) / 0.8 = 52.08 minimum circuit amperage.

Since there are no 53A or 55A circuit breakers, this would have to go on a 60A circuit.

Ray

I did the math 240 * 40A = 9.6 kW. I assumed that when they're talking about a 10kW charger, it's really 9.6kW but they just say 10kW. That way, a 50A circuit works out nicely with the 20% buffer for the continuous draw. I'd rather have a 9.6kW charger on a 50A circuit than a 10kW charger on a 60 circuit, which is over kill.

 

[planet4ever]

Actually, as Phil and others have found out, a "3.3 kW" charger can pull more than 3.8 kW. I think the chargers are rated by output rather than input. We don't know how efficient Phil's proposed new gadget is going to be, but at that rate your 9.6 kW input would end up being only an 8.3 kW charger rather than 10 kW. I still think you'd better assume a 60A circuit.

Ray

 

[Electric4Me]

I have some questions on this charger subject as well, but perhaps this should be moved to its own thread?

Bill

 

[TEG]

I think we should hold off on thinking too hard about the 10kW charger subject just yet.
I think he is just experimenting right now, and it may never turn into a product or come out with different specs.
If 90%+ of charging opportunities are maxed out at 6.6kW, he might pursue that instead of the 10kW option.
I know Phil can speak for himself, but my take was this is just a little rumor/idea to gauge interest, and not any kind of commitment.
I did hear about it first hand, but there was also some "wiggle wording" suggesting it may never come to be.

Other bits I heard:
#1: 10kW only to 80%, then you switch back to 3.3kW to go above 80%.
(I gather the charging algorithm is more touchy/sophisticated for that last 20% top off.)
(That is similar to the way CHAdeMO charging works.)
#2: A relay that can switch the incoming current to either the on-board 3.3kW or some add-on beefier charger in the front.
#3: A new J1772 receptacle rated for higher current.

Oops... Now I am continuing to talk about "it".

 

[gascant]

Union City Library will be the venue for Gathering #7, though it might be a bit tight if 55 people show up! Please send/post your ideas for the Agenda! We are trying to get someone from Coulomb Tech to talk about ChargePoint Network but, as always, your suggestions make the meeting. I'll also try to do an update on the SOC meter (revisions). Of course, we'll do the horn upgrade clinic and 240V adapter demo afterwards. General and LEAF-specific topics are welcome.

The Union City Library is centrally located in the East Bay and should allow most members to attend without the need for charging. Details:
34007 Alvarado Niles Road
Union City, CA 94587-4498
September 10th, 2011
Tailgate party at 7:45, Meeting start 8:30, Horn Clinic 10:30 AM

Driving Distances in miles from Select Locations:
Golden Gate Park, 36
Berkeley Bowl West, 27
Pleasanton, 18
South San Jose, 32
Morgan Hill, 42
Santa Cruz, 51
Mountain View, 25
Redwood City, 16
South SF, 29

As always, members coming from the south can find carpooling and/or charging at South San Jose member homes. Please post if you can host :lol: (count me in on that).

Send me your proposed agenda topics. If you want to volunteer to lead a discussion, don't be shy--if you've attended one of our meetings, you know how lively the group can be.

Looking forward to seeing everyone on the 10th.

 

[derivers]

For those of us who are new to this listserve, what is a "horn clinic" referenced in the post about the 9/10th gathering? I am aware from my own experience about the problem with the LEAF horn. Today, I needed to get a sleepy driver in front of me to wake up for the traffic light that just turned green. I tooted my horn but it had no effect on the driver. I'm not sure it can even be heard outside the car. So, I am considering installing a new horn and wonder if the "horn clinic" will be a hands-on, show you how event.

 

[gascant]

For those of us who are new to this listserve, what is a "horn clinic" referenced in the post about the 9/10th gathering? I am aware from my own experience about the problem with the LEAF horn. Today, I needed to get a sleepy driver in front of me to wake up for the traffic light that just turned green. I tooted my horn but it had no effect on the driver. I'm not sure it can even be heard outside the car. So, I am considering installing a new horn and wonder if the "horn clinic" will be a hands-on, show you how event.

Yes, the horn clinic is a "do-it-on-the-spot" event. If you show up with the horns, we guide you through the installation right there in the parking lot. It's very simple and takes less than 30 minutes. We recommend the FIAMM El Grande for ease of installation. We might even convince OrientExpress to bring a few pigtails. We will have tools available or you can bring your own.