SF BayLEAFs - e-NV200 Ride & Drives and Showcase May 28

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We've come through with a location for the November meeting! Thanks to those who checked and helped.

Join us at the Union Church of Cupertino on November 10th–the first time in our short history to meet in such a venue. The featured speaker is Terry O’Day, from NRG. Terry will discuss the status of the recent settlement with the State of California and the impact it will have on EV drivers in the SF Bay Area. Additionally, he’ll talk about siting plans for the eVgo Freedom Stations that are part of the settlement. We'll also get an update from Mayor Rich Larsen of Los Altos Hills on the Energynet project there. Keep watching for updates.
Schedule:
9:00 Refreshments in the Parking Lot
10:00-12:00 Meeting and Discussions
12:00 + Discussions and upgrade clinics in the Parking lot.

While there is no charging on site, there are several L2 Stations within 1.5 miles (Cupertino City Hall, Stevens Creek and Sunnyvale Nissan Dealers). As well for those coming from the North, QC stations in Belmont, Hayward, Redwood City, Palo Alto and Menlo Park should be available.

If you have an announcement or some other topic you would like to cover, please PM me and I'll get it on the agenda.
 
gascant said:
Join us at the Union Church of Cupertino on November 10th–the first time in our short history to meet in such a venue...
Schedule:
9:00 Refreshments in the Parking Lot
10:00-12:00 Meeting and Discussions
12:00 + Discussions and upgrade clinics in the Parking lot.

While there is no charging on site, there are several L2 Stations within 1.5 miles (Cupertino City Hall, Stevens Creek and Sunnyvale Nissan Dealers). As well for those coming from the North, QC stations in Belmont, Hayward, Redwood City, Palo Alto and Menlo Park should be available...
I live about two miles away and could offer charging (and carpooling) for one or two LEAFs that are coming from far away if anyone would like to "park and charge and ride" to the meeting.

That said, don't forget there are two new QCs on the peninsula, as Howard mentioned (Intuit @ Menlo Park and Silver Springs in Redwood City) as well as Stanford Shopping Center and good old Belmont.

Make sure you have a ChargePoint card and/or a Blink (or Chargit) card if you plan to use any of the public chargers.
 
lemketron said:
gascant said:
Join us at the Union Church of Cupertino on November 10th–the first time in our short history to meet in such a venue...
Schedule:
9:00 Refreshments in the Parking Lot
10:00-12:00 Meeting and Discussions
12:00 + Discussions and upgrade clinics in the Parking lot.

While there is no charging on site, there are several L2 Stations within 1.5 miles (Cupertino City Hall, Stevens Creek and Sunnyvale Nissan Dealers). As well for those coming from the North, QC stations in Belmont, Hayward, Redwood City, Palo Alto and Menlo Park should be available...
I live about two miles away and could offer charging (and carpooling) for one or two LEAFs that are coming from far away if anyone would like to "park and charge and ride" to the meeting.

That said, don't forget there are two new QCs on the peninsula, as Howard mentioned (Intuit @ Menlo Park and Silver Springs in Redwood City) as well as Stanford Shopping Center and good old Belmont.

Make sure you have a ChargePoint card and/or a Blink (or Chargit) card if you plan to use any of the public chargers.

I live only about 0.5 miles from the Church meeting site and have L2 charging available. I will be going to help set up for the meeting so anyone who needs charge should plan to get to my house early, or make arrangements so we can drive to my home from the Church.
 
Looks like I'll be able to go to this one. Will probably need a shuttle service so I can charge... Linkim did anyone claim your charger yet? :)
 
No - you can use my L2. Let's meet at the Union Church site where the meeting will take place and I can show you how to get to my house navigating through some maze of streets.
I will likely be at the meeting site around 830AM or so. If you plan to get to Cupertino earlier than that, you can drive over to my house and start charging right away.

JeremyW said:
Looks like I'll be able to go to this one. Will probably need a shuttle service so I can charge... Linkim did anyone claim your charger yet? :)
 
To anyone thinking about coming to Tomorrow's meeting (9am in Cupertino), Let me know if you are interested in either EVSE's (new or upgrades) or Climate Control upgrades.

I need to decide if I need to come down, and what to bring.

-Phil
 
dscn0717c.jpg

LEAFs line up at the SF BayLEAFs meeting in Cupertino, November 10th

The Nov. 10, 2012 SF BayLEAFs meeting was held at the Union Church of Cupertino. Many thanks to linkim for being the diligent scribe and providing these minutes. Slides of the agenda and announcements can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?zlwf6ymit4c0h11" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There were 52 present among the 36 LEAFs, 1 Corbin Sparrow, 1 PriusC and a Karmann Ghia EV. Two new LEAF owners from Fremont were present, as well as three non-LEAF owners. Once again, JeremyW made the ~150-mile drive from Folsom to Cupertino using 2 quick charges along the way at Vacaville and San Ramon.

The guest speaker was Terry O’Day, Director, from NRG Energy’s wholly owned subsidiary eVgo (http://www.eVgoNetwork.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) in Santa Monica, and Obrie Hostetter, Manager NRG eVgo, who assisted in the Q & A session. Terry’s topic was “LEAF Adoption: Going Forward in the Bay Area”. He indicated that the major concerns of EV owners relevant to charging issues were (i) range anxiety, (ii) upfront cost of charging stations and (iii) uncertainty of electricity cost. NRG eVgo’s plans to invest $135M across 8 regions in the US, with California receiving about $100M for DCFC (>$50M), workplace/multi-residential charging (>$40M) and R & D operation (>$10M).

Texas has already started to implement eVgo’s plans for charging infrastructure
with 50 DCFCs planned and 16 in operation in Houston, while in the North Texas region around Dallas, 50 DCFCs are planned and 14 in operation. The DCFCs in the Houston area will be located so EV owners should not be more than 5 miles from a DCFC.

The eVgo program has two different kinds of charging solutions:
• Residential Homes, Multi-Family Communities and Workplace Electric Car Charging stations using dedicated 240 V L2 charger services. These will be at locations where EVs can be plugged in for an extended time, typically 4-8 hours (overnight or while at work), to receive a full charge.
• Network Charging (eVgo Freedom Station) DCFC sites, which can provide a 50-mile charge in as little as 15 minutes. They also offer a standard Level 2 commercial charger at the site.

In California, eVgo is still far from having operational DCFCs available. The plan is to install 200 DCFCs and 1000 L2 chargers in the 9-county Bay Area (55 DCFCs), San Joaquin Valley (15 DCFCs), Los Angeles (110 DCFCs) and San Diego (20 DCFCs). The sites will include both L2 and DCFC with J1772, CHAdeMO and SAE plugs. The locations of the DCFCs in the Bay Area have not been settled, and eVgo is asking for assistance by the LEAF community to identify sites. So far, eVgo is considering sites near freeways, i.e., Cupertino, San Francisco, Daly City, San Rafael, Vallejo, Vacaville, etc. In California, the minimum cost for quick charging is $7/charge off-peak and $15 on-peak, payable by credit card, with other options such as subscription considered. Suggestions and comments on the eVgo plans should be submitted to Terry ([email protected]) or Obrie ([email protected]) and/or by Facebook or Twitter. More information on eVgo is available at http://www.evgonetwork.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Slides from the presentation can be found here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?qhsw6s3hpc46qia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The second speaker was Rich Larsen (General Manager and mayor of Los Altos Hills - LAH) of New Power Technologies (http://www.NewPowerTech.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) who made a presentation entitled “EnergyNet EV Charging LAH Field Trial”. EnergyNet is a software suite for power network management that provides improved resolution of the grid to maximize power network performance and enhance smart grid initiatives. The higher resolution permits identification of individual transformer sites and charging locations on the grid. By utilizing the software, EV charging can be controlled to manage cost and duty cycle. For example, input of the end time for charging (i.e., when the EV is needed) allows the charger to reduce charging rate (because a longer charge time can be used) that minimizes ancillary charges. Check their website for more details.

Gascant and Ingineer led a discussion with input from surfingslovak on “Storing Your LEAF During Vacations”. Simple guidelines include keeping the traction battery at close to 50% SOC during storage, unplug the LEAF from the charging dock and insure all lights and accessories are turned off. Recommended guidelines are:
• Storage up to 21 days – traction battery at 30-50% SOC (3-6 bars); 12 V battery undisturbed
• Storage >21 days – traction battery at 30-50% SOC (3-6 bars); 12 V battery trickle charge

OrientExpress announced that we currently have two sponsors for SF BayLEAFs – Solar Harmonics and Boardwalk Nissan. Links to their websites and other information can be found on the website sfbayleafs.org and clicking on the “About” tab.

Meetings of interest for the SF BayLEAFers include:
VERGE/Greenbuild SF, Nov. 12-13 (Intercontinental Hotel, San Francisco, live stream, free register at greenbiz.com)
EAASV meeting, Nov. 17 (Google, Mountain View, Mike Harrigan, City Carshare)
Sacramento/NorCal LEAF Owners, Nov. 17th Folsom (contact JeremyW)
Seat heater installation, Nov. 17 (location TBA)
EBEAA meeting, Nov. 24 (Alameda, topic TBA)
GGEVA meeting, Dec. 12 (SF, topic TBA)

At the conclusion of the meeting, we adjourned to the parking lot for further individual discussions and completed 2 horn upgrades. The SF BayLEAFs are not planning to meet in December although the group is amenable to participate in a social event with other EV enthusiasts and organizations.
 
gascant said:
Gascant and Ingineer led a discussion with input from surfingslovak on “Storing Your LEAF During Vacations”. Simple guidelines include keeping the traction battery at close to 50% SOC during storage, unplug the LEAF from the charging dock and insure all lights and accessories are turned off. Recommended guidelines are:
• Storage up to 21 days – traction battery at 30-50% SOC (3-6 bars); 12 V battery undisturbed
• Storage >21 days – traction battery at 30-50% SOC (3-6 bars); 12 V battery trickle charge
Correction, You recommended a Trickle Charge for storage over 21 days, I recommend the same charge SoC percentages, but a 12v battery Disconnection at the Negative terminal for anything to be over over 1 week. No charger needed, and it's better for both your batteries! If you are storing your Leaf for over 4 months, then consider a top-up charge (using an EVSE) every 4 months to at least 60%. (Who would ever do that though?)

NEVER leave the EVSE connected for much over 1 week! Your Leaf WILL be dead, and your Traction pack harmed! Try to leave it a minimum of 30% and a maximum of 60% SOC for any storage, and never connect an EVSE unless you are over 4 months (with 12v disconnect prior) and you are topping off to 60%!

-Phil
 
Ingineer said:
Correction, You recommended a Trickle Charge for storage over 21 days, I recommend the same charge SoC percentages, but a 12v battery Disconnection at the Negative terminal for anything to be over over 1 week.
Thank you for that, Phil! I provided those recommendations to gascant. It was based on previous work in the area, and I'm glad you were in attendance and provided your input and corrections. I considered the disconnection method, but I don't have a Leaf anymore to try it. It seemed like a departure from the beaten path others have taken, and I did not want to bring up anything that I could not defend, especially if I'm not there. Thanks again for that. It sounds like you would advise against using a battery tender altogether, even if the owner already had one, because this approach is better for both batteries. Will any of the personalization settings be lost after the 12V was disconnected for an extended period of time? It sounds like you would consider a disconnect for storage intervals longer than a week, instead of 3 weeks, correct?
1
 
While disconnecting the 12V battery for a storage length of over 3 weeks certainly won't harm the 12V battery, it is overkill and probably impractical for the average LEAF owner. Connecting a trickle charger to the 12V system, while being more expensive than disconnecting the 12V battery, is better for the state of the 12V battery over time. Personally this is the route that I take for my sports cars that get driven only a few miles (if that) a month. I have used this method for many years, and have had better success at keeping the battery healthy over disconnecting it from the vehicle.

For short term storage of less than 6 months either way works, but an intelligent trickle charger such as a Save a Battery is the superior way to maintain the 12V battery.
 
surfingslovak said:
Ingineer said:
Correction, You recommended a Trickle Charge for storage over 21 days, I recommend the same charge SoC percentages, but a 12v battery Disconnection at the Negative terminal for anything to be over over 1 week.
Thank you for that, Phil! I provided those recommendations to gascant. It was based on previous work in the area, and I'm glad you were in attendance and provided your input and corrections. I considered the disconnection method, but I don't have a Leaf anymore to try it. It seemed like a departure from the beaten path others have taken, and I did not want to bring up anything that I could not defend, especially if I'm not there. Thanks again for that. It sounds like you would advise against using a battery tender altogether, even if the owner already had one, because this approach is better for both batteries. Will any of the personalization settings be lost after the 12V was disconnected for an extended period of time? It sounds like you would consider a disconnect for storage intervals longer than a week, instead of 3 weeks, correct?
1

I guess the question I would ask is: What would the average LEAF owner do in this situation? Considering someone with little (electrical system knowledge or) skill at all?
 
OrientExpress said:
The easiest solution is to park the car outside and let the built-in trickle charger keep things going.
Yes. If you had an SL trim, which is the case for most owners in the area. The weather rarely gets severe or hot enough here to recommend against parking outside. TomT measured 5 Watts out of the panel in direct sunlight. Partial shade could work as well, although I don't have any data for that.
 
OrientExpress said:
While disconnecting the 12V battery for a storage length of over 3 weeks certainly won't harm the 12V battery, it is overkill and probably impractical for the average LEAF owner. Connecting a trickle charger to the 12V system, while being more expensive than disconnecting the 12V battery, is better for the state of the 12V battery over time. Personally this is the route that I take for my sports cars that get driven only a few miles (if that) a month. I have used this method for many years, and have had better success at keeping the battery healthy over disconnecting it from the vehicle.

For short term storage of less than 6 months either way works, but an intelligent trickle charger such as a Save a Battery is the superior way to maintain the 12V battery.
But unlike your ICE cars, the LEAF will power up it's DC-DC converter and charge the 12v battery every 5 days. I'd take Phil's suggestion.
 
davewill said:
But unlike your ICE cars, the LEAF will power up it's DC-DC converter and charge the 12v battery every 5 days. I'd take Phil's suggestion.
Right, that's a good point. The terminal disconnect solution sounds elegant to me, and I would take it too. On the other hand, I realize that not everyone might feel comfortable doing that. I like the solar panel idea as well, since it requires minimum effort and planning. Unfortunately, I don't all the numbers needed to validate this approach, but I have to believe that the panel was engineered to be up to the task.

Another thing worth noting is that RegGuheert monitored the voltage on the auxiliary battery, and it looks like the battery won't be kept at full charge when the Leaf is not driven regularly, and it will suffer before long, especially in hot weather.
 
If the 12V battery is being kept topped off by the trickle charger, then the refresh event will be very brief and inconsequential to the health of traction battery.
 
OrientExpress said:
If the 12V battery is being kept topped off by the trickle charger, then the refresh event will be very brief and inconsequential to the health of traction battery.
Indeed. The key question is, can and will the solar panel alone be up to the task in our clime. I would think so, but have no data to back it up. RegGuheert did a lot of work, and created a nice plot detailing what happens to the auxiliary battery over time. I quote his conclusion below. I'm pretty sure that a battery tender will take care of this particular problem. There is a good chance that the solar panel will as well. Would anyone know what happens to the 12V battery after a month if it's been disconnected?

RegGuheert said:
Overall it seems that the LEAF doesn't do a great job of keeping the 12-V battery topped off, but instead the battery seems to live around 12.5 V much of the time.
 
Got back from our 43 day trip and found my Leaf would not start. Car was parked outside where the sun could hit the solar panel. The 12 volt battery measured less than 3 volts. After I charged the battery back to 12 volts, the Leaf has been working just fine. Had the car plugged into the Blink EVSE the whole time we were gone. After 14 days, the Leaf goes into sleep mode, and I could not communicate with it over the internet. I'll have to put a trickle charger on the battery like I did with our Prius. It's 12 volt battery goes flat after 2 weeks of sitting which it often does since we drive the Leaf most of the time.
 
TEDMAC said:
Had the car plugged into the Blink EVSE the whole time we were gone.
And therein lies the problem. Sorry to hear about your experience, glad that you were able to bring the 12V battery back to life. You might want to plan on replacing it sooner than later
 
If you had left it unplugged from the EVSE, it would have been fine. I did a 45 day trip last year and simply left it unplugged in the garage and all was fine when I got back. It was at 6 bars when I left and 5 when I returned...

TEDMAC said:
Got back from our 43 day trip and found my Leaf would not start. Car was parked outside where the sun could hit the solar panel. The 12 volt battery measured less than 3 volts. After I charged the battery back to 12 volts, the Leaf has been working just fine. Had the car plugged into the Blink EVSE the whole time we were gone. After 14 days, the Leaf goes into sleep mode, and I could not communicate with it over the internet. I'll have to put a trickle charger on the battery like I did with our Prius. It's 12 volt battery goes flat after 2 weeks of sitting which it often does since we drive the Leaf most of the time.
 
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