Nissan's Lack of Communication on Delivery Delay

[Stoaty]

I have clearly stated that the only part of my firts post which is factual is that NISSAN has stopped the deliveries and most probably the manufacture of the LEAF . which themselves had announced were already in process.
TOM

U.S. deliveries appear to have basically stopped so they can sell the Leafs in Japan before the tax credit expires March 31. The Reuters article states 3,000 Leafs produced, and plans to ramp up production. If they had stopped manufacture, why would they give a press tour showing the assembly line in Japan? Your ramblings don't make any sense.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

OK, no more Leaf's: How much do you figure Nissan lost, maybe 5 Billion on this?- What a shame thay didn't think about cold temperatures BEFORE they engineered the car-- oh well, people make mistakes. Wish I had one of those first 60 Leaf's they are sure going to be valuable collectors items, just like the Tucker!

I'll guess I'll just have to get a used Hummer instead!

 

[tps]

As to ask me where a rumor comes from, if I had a reliable source it would not be a rumor!!

Well, that might explain why I hadn't heard this "news", because you have no reliable source. Could you tell me your unreliable source? My guess is those on this forum might have reacted more favorably had you'd used the word "rumor" instead of "news" in your original post.

 

[TomWittmann]

1) CHARLIE 1300 2) STOATY 3) EVNOW1)

1- Charlie 1300 [/b]:I thought that insulting post are not allowed??

Of course, if you are not able to answer my questions, you are free to do so. But please do not hide behind insults!

STOATYI am not discussing that they have already manufactured
a lot of LEAFS. This is preciselyi what bothers me. Why they have not delivered them??

As for the deliveries in Japan, as far as I know they have delivered very few there too. Please tell me if you have some concrete data.
Anyway, to stop contractual deliveries in the US to be able
to do so in Japan is an "interesting" strategy, assuming that this is true. More so, if its done without any explanation to the spurned customers!

EVNOW

I have inserted belor into your text my comments (in italics bold)

Nothing of what you posted has any factual basis.
Please read my posts!i]
Can you first post something about yourself so that we know where you are coming from ?
Yes. I am near 80, a retired Director of a German Electic/electronic concern, a Electrical Engineer with Master equivalence and more than 40 years experience, leaving in the US for 6 years, absolutely no relation with any car manufacurer
Remember, anyone who makes hostile posts in any internet forum is treated as a troll.
Do you call a critic a hostility?? If so, I am a troll!!
In anycase, first read the news about Nissan taking journalists on a tour today. You couldn't have posted your FUD at a worse time. Do a news search it is being reported by multiple news outlets. So evidently your "news" is absolutely wrong.
You see, in my company, anytime we did have a problem of delivery or technical, the firts step was invite the customers to see the assembly line. Of course, you cannot do that with cars, so you invite the press. And of course, they will be "convincing"!

Also, You seem to be posting from US - so what is this about bad English ?
I have explained that above. Do you think that my English is good?? Thanks!
-------------------------------------------------------------
You should ask yourself why NISSAN is not doing what any
serious company should do: To issue a formal statement to its LEAF customers stating why the delay happened and
concretely indicate the delivery program. Statements as "do not bother, we will deliver in time" are not good!!

And finally: Independently of the delivery problem: That the electrical heating for a car, a new issue very important for a volume enclosed in heat conducting metal /glass and with cold air circulating at high speed along one surface, providing a teaching example for high convection heat loss, is a FACT,
The E-energy (=KWH) so consumed can reach the same amount as needed for the car propulsion, reducing the average range highway / city traffic to a half (here from 73mi EPA) . Therefore, it would seem that cold weather constitutes a serious problem for the LEAF.
I am on this forum to discuss this issue and other , but certainly in a civilized tone (as your post is!)

TOM

 

[Azrich]

I agree, but asking for his source is not being hostle

Totally agree with Stanley. I even teach my sixth grade students that they must site their primary sources when sharing new information. Tom, site your sources, give us the links to read it for ourselves.

 

[defiancecp]

tom -

- Current speculation (rumor) is that the Japanese tax credits have not been extended as expected (this I believe to be fact), and so in order to minimize risk to Japanese consumers, they are pushing to fulfill as many Japanese orders as possible before expiration in March (this is the rumor portion).
This does make sense, since the US tax credit extends at least throughout 2011.

I agree that it SUCKS that Nissan hasn't formally announced this (or any other reason) to their US customers who have been delayed, but if it's the correct reason, I certainly can't begrudge them that decision - I'd probably make the same in their position.


As a second note, on your concerns about temperature, there are a number of users on this very forum who already own and are driving their leafs in cold areas in December/January. So far, the owners forum has not one complaint I can find about cold impact on range. I'm going to dig a bit more now that you've brought up the question, but given the general tone of discussion there I expect any comment about cold will be that the impact is minimal.

 

[TomWittmann]

EVNOW

Please see this extract of article stating that the total sales in Japan reached 60 LEAF Units,(seemingly additional to the 30 sold to the US) even if they say having there 6,000 orders, already manufactured 3,000 units

The announcement of today that they will increase production in Marchdoes not mention anything regarding Sales.

Risking to be insulted as a Troll, I must ask: Where are the
missing 2910 vehicles ??

"""Nissan has only delivered around 60 Leaf electric cars even though it has already taken 6,000 orders due to be shipped by 31 March, the company said today.

The company told Kyodo News the speed of deliveries was slow because of new manufacturing processes but denied any delay in the delivery of the pre-ordered cars.

It told the news agency: ''As it is our first major project to mass produce EVs, we began building them with caution. Production lines are working fine so we expect to fill the orders as planned.''

But unnamed sources also told Kyodo the Leaf was not selling as fast as expected since it hit the domestic market on 20 December, partly because it takes time for consumers to complete the procedure for receiving a government subsidy for EVs
,,,,,,,,, etc.
See http://www.just-auto.com/news/production-process-slows-early-nissan-leaf-deliveries_id108526.aspx

Tom

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I hate to say I told you so (oh who am I kidding, I love to say I told you so) but I think this is going exactly according to their plan: Release a very small number of cars to retail customers, on the order of 50-100, and see how it goes for the first month or two. If some serious problem occurs, the problem is containable.

The customers who have gotten cars so far are in effect beta testers.

 

[evnow]

1) CHARLIE 1300 2) STOATY 3) EVNOW1)
TOM

Tom, STOP SHOUTING. Thats right, learn some internet forum etiquett.

Pls edit your earlier posts removing all the huge size words.

 

[wsbca]

See http://www.just-auto.com/news/production-process-slows-early-nissan-leaf-deliveries_id108526.aspx

Tom

Maybe it's my bad english but I don't see anything in that "article" about Nissan stopping production, other than in your comment below it, where among other things you unleash the priceless sequence:

"I do not know if following is factual....THESE ARE THE FACTS."

You asked for comments - my comment is that IMHO it's time for you to put a J1772 connector in your charge port until you can come up with something fresh, and ideally based in reality. But as I said, that's just my opinion.

 

[TomWittmann]

wsbca Do you see the evidence now?? And I advise you to change the tone of your posts, if not, do not expect an answer!

DefianceCP

Please see the article dated Jan 17 I sent to EVNOW a moment ago. Fact is they have sold only 60 Vehicles in Japan, but manufactured 3,000 against 6,000 orders. So the argument that they did violate their contracts in the US
(per se not a very nice thing) to favor the Japanese customer in serach of the subsidy, seems not to be true!

You will agree with me that these vehicles must been retained for some reason! And as you can see from the reactions and denials by Nissan, I am certainly not the only who has heard of these (so maligned here) rumors!

About the Cold weather problem: the few Leafs delivered in the US were sold only in warm states. So that the experience there, cannot be very representative.

But there are dozens of articles on Internet stating the fact,
which says nothing negative of the LEAF, as common to all EVs) that the electrical heating of the cabin insumes a high proportion of the battery power, aside that this is an obvious fact. (Please read my post of today)

What is criticable that NISSAN has consistently not mentioned this fact. GM neither has said much, but
mentoned their Heat management (which is necessarely not very much effective. But they do not need to do so,
as they have the back up. The cost of the back up seen over the year is not a big issue, as obviously it will be used on a relatively small percentage of the years time.

But for pure pure EV's like the LEAF this is clearly a grave problem. For many person of my neighborhood, which have to drive about 50-60 miles/day frequently, they would not be able to do it when the temperature reach near freezing, unless they want to freeze themselves by not use the heating!

It would be nice that some of the companies like Edmunds and Powers peform let say about 100 test on different places with pre-established driving and heating patterns,. If they do that parallely with a VOLT, this would be even nicer!!

TOM

 

[TomWittmann]

EVnow

Sorry regarding the etiquette!! I thought that the LARGE LETTERS are precisely to allow to make the destinatary more visible!!

But I will glad not to use them in th fiture.

And I hope that is not your answer to my Post I sent you!

Tom

 

[Jimmydreams]

Do you see the evidence now?? And I advise you to change the tone of your post, if not, do not expect an answer!

Please see the article dated Jan 17 I sent to EVNOW a moment ago. Fact is they have sold only 60 Vehicles in Japan, but manufactured 3,000 against 6,000 orders. So the argument that they did violate their contracts in the US
(per se not a very nice thing) to favor the Japanese customer in serach of the subsidy, seems not to be true!

Tom...

I read the article. It says that Nissan has delivered 60 car. Not "60 vehicles in Japan" as you quote above to be a fact. You're wrong....close, but wrong. I see nowhere that says they have produced 3000 cars against 6000 orders. Show me the link for that one, please. Also, Nissan has NO 'contracts' in the US. They have reservations and potential-sales awaiting delivery. Show me one of those 'contracts' and I'll believe you.

As for the rest of your posting and your general tone, I'd suggest that you talk to the people here who actually HAVE a Leaf sitting in their driveway. (myself included). WE are the ones with the FACTS because we are the ones driving the car. You are relying on internet news and blogs for your 'facts' and neither of those are very reliable, citable sources.

As for your range comments....I just drove over 65 miles today, almost ALL of it highway in San Diego with hills. I pulled in my driveway with 3 bars of available juice left (25%), showing 26 miles available. I used the A/C all the way home. I also have over 1100 miles on my car. According to your 'facts' and 'sources', how many of them have driven the car that far?? Or am I to be ignored because my data isn't in line with yours?

Heating IS a drawback, but it's not a 'grave problem' as you put it. That is why there is pre-heating available. Nissan also isn't releasing the cars yet to states where freezing temps are the norm. They are working on a cold weather package, and when that is released, we can discuss the drawbacks and merits of the same. Until then, speculation is just that.

Tom, the Leaf is not THE EV for EVERYONE. It is AN EV that works for many people. If you have a commute of 60+ miles and blasting the heat makes that unsustainable, then don't get the Leaf. Honestly, you come across as someone who has been promised something by a company that is blatantly lying, but yet you don't want to ask those of us who actually drive the car daily for facts.

Your message might go a bit further here if you did just that.

I'm happy to answer any specific questions you may have.

Jim

 

[evnow]

And I hope that is not your answer to my Post I sent you!

It is. I refuse to debate people who are shouting - life is too short for that. As I said, pls edit your old posts and remove the shouting. I'll read the posts after that.

 

[richard]

.. I see nowhere that says they have produced 3000 cars against 6000 orders.

Today's Reuters article does quote this figure..

Japan's second-biggest automaker has gradually ramped up output of its first mass-marketed zero-emission car since it started building the Leaf in late October, completing about 3,000 units to date.

Nissan has taken orders for 6,000 Leafs in Japan and 20,000 in the United States so far..

However, the 6,000 and 20,000 figures are clearly reservations, not orders. Not sure what else may be wrong in the article.

 

[GeorgeParrott]

The Reuter's report says about 3000 LEAF cars have been produced, and IF that is true WHERE are they now? I don't see reports of massive numbers of Japanese deliveries yet, and we sure have not seen more than about 100 (at most) actually arrive for delivery to US customers. Even less seem to have appeared in Europe.

It seems to me that this most recent series of Nissan PR presentations on Oppama factory output leave us with almost as many questions as we had before the reports. We may have more HOPE now that production is up, but until we see the vehicles AT our dealers I am still sceptical as to what IS going on with the LEAF rollout.

 

[Jimmydreams]

The Reuter's report says about 3000 LEAF cars have been produced, and IF that is true WHERE are they now? I don't see reports of massive numbers of Japanese deliveries yet, and we sure have not seen more than about 100 (at most) actually arrive for delivery to US customers. Even less seem to have appeared in Europe.

It seems to me that this most recent series of Nissan PR presentations on Oppama factory output leave us with almost as many questions as we had before the reports. We may have more HOPE now that production is up, but until we see the vehicles AT our dealers I am still sceptical as to what IS going on with the LEAF rollout.

And no news article on the internet concerning the Leaf has ever had errors in it.....riiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhttttt!!

I refuse to believe the '3000 cars produced' bit. There simply isn't any evidence that they've been produced and then hidden (unless you believe in black helicopters hovering over your house), nor is there any evidence that they have been delivered.....we'd see an upswing in CARWINGS within a day or two of them hitting the street. Some reporter somewhere got his numbers wrong and it hasn't been corrected. How hard is that to believe?

Nissan continues to take orders, albeit slowly. They continue to deliver cars, albeit slowly. Beyond that, pure speculation.

 

[richard]

And no news article on the internet concerning the Leaf has ever had errors in it.....riiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhttttt!!

We've all seen plenty of articles conflating "reservations" with "orders". They're all over the place. Unfortunately, this article was carried by Reuters, which most people believe is a step above blogs and such.

I refuse to believe the '3000 cars produced' bit.

I agree and am waiting for some facts to corroborate this.

Anyone know if there's a Japanese version of MyNissanLEAF. Hard to believe the owners there aren't congregating somewhere?

 

[evnow]

The Reuter's report says about 3000 LEAF cars have been produced, and IF that is true WHERE are they now? I don't see reports of massive numbers of Japanese deliveries yet, and we sure have not seen more than about 100 (at most) actually arrive for delivery to US customers. Even less seem to have appeared in Europe.

According a report (linked sometime back) - the Japanes deliveries are slow because of red tape involved with tax rebates.

 

[GeorgeParrott]

Jimmy, Richard,

From the Detroit News today...

"The plant was shown to reporters today. The factory, which employs 1,860 workers and has added 225 temporary workers, is now making about 2,000 Leaf cars a month."

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110125/AUTO01/101250387/Nissan-shows-off-busy-Leaf-electric-vehicle-plant#ixzz1C5pT1Qyw

This seems to also be in the same ballpark at least with the Reuters report, but we are still left with the question of "where are the cars?"
:lol:

If this is because of "red tape" with the Japanese government "rebates," I am still confused as to WHY such a delay on the rebates (which usually go to consumers and thus WHY would that government paperwork slow the delivery process at all? It would seem important to get the cars TO consumers so that final rebate process COULD be completed.