Nissan's Lack of Communication on Delivery Delay

[evnow]

If this is because of "red tape" with the Japanese government "rebates," I am still confused as to WHY such a delay on the rebates (which usually go to consumers and thus WHY would that government paperwork slow the delivery process at all? It would seem important to get the cars TO consumers so that final rebate process COULD be completed.

I've no idea how the rebates work in Japan. Do you ?

 

[stanley]

A plausible explanation to where is the 3,000 could be that they are all destined for Japanese customers and Nissan is waiting to deliver them all at once to their dealers (within a short time period) to avoid complaints of favoratism. Perhaps they want to avoid dealers and customers complaining about the order of deliveries.

Holding back completed cars actually occured a few years back when a German manufacturer with a hot new model did not deliver them to their dealers until they could deliver a significant number of cars to all there dealers.

Nissan can be accused of not doing a great job of keeping us informed of when we will receive our Leafs. However, to claim that the tour of the factory for journalists and Nissan`s executives comments about production is subterfuge is not plausible.

 

[palmermd]

Anyone know if there's a Japanese version of MyNissanLEAF. Hard to believe the owners there aren't congregating somewhere?

And where is the mwalsh guy? Shouldn't he be in Japan somewhere near the dock taking photos of the 3000 leafs awaiting paperwork for transfer to their owners.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Anyone know if there's a Japanese version of MyNissanLEAF. Hard to believe the owners there aren't congregating somewhere?

And where is the mwalsh guy? Shouldn't he be in Japan somewhere near the dock taking photos of the 3000 leafs awaiting paperwork for transfer to their owners.

He is being detained by Homeland Security with no rights for taking such photos.

 

[tps]

And where is the mwalsh guy?

He's got his LEAF! He's probably enjoying driving it too much to take time off for a trip to Japan.

 

[TomWittmann]

I am really tired of the strategy of some of the bloggers here asking continuously from supports of what is being already several time posted. The last straws provided are by questions where I read that Nissan says that the have produced already 3,000 cars and if the 60 cars "already delivered" where in Japan,

I will answer this questions, but I am not willing to continue to deal with fanatic Leaf admirers (or probably NIssan employees) using a strategy to find formal holes to cover the reality. If this blog is in the hands of NISSAN, I can only suggest to the really independent bloggers to analyze the facts and decide if they want to spent their money before the serious doubts regarding the LEAF are dispelled
I will, as some have suggested, WALK AWAY!!! (possibly other will follow!!)

Answer to above questions:

See article of Reuters of todaygoogle Reutere Nissan Leaf News)

"""Reuters) - Nissan Motor Co said on Tuesday it would add overtime and holidays at one if its Japanese factories toward the end of the business year in March to bring production of the Leaf electric car up to full speed.

Japan's second-biggest automaker has gradually ramped up output of its first mass-marketed zero-emission car since it started building the Leaf in late October, completing about 3,000 units to"""

And that the 60 deliveres refer to Japan is clear iby the sources cited in the artile and mention 6,000 orders, which refers to Japan, as the order in the US are allegedly 20,000.

As my Good by a advise to the moderators:

Look at the interchange and the poisonous posts of the LEAF people and decide if you want to do something about it, or accept that your otherwise really sophisticated organization becomes a propaganda organization for NISSAN!

If you, the moderator want to comment, you have my E-Mail!

TOM

 

[evnow]

I will answer this questions, but I am not willing to continue to deal with fanatic Leaf admirers (or probably NIssan employees) using a strategy to find formal holes to cover the reality.

Yes, formal holes like out that you are calling by your own admission what is a "rumor" as "news".

We actually live in the reality based world, not fantasy. Good Bye.

ps : If you improve your internet posting skills may be a few more will read your posts. Nothing fancy - just figuring out how to use quotes, for eg. Currently they are very difficult to read.

pps : If anyone is wondering who this guy is and why did he crash our party - search his name. He apparently likes to make disparaging comments about Japanese auto makers. I guess he searches for any kind of bad news about them and posts his "news".

 

[mwalsh]

And where is the mwalsh guy?

He's got his LEAF! He's probably enjoying driving it too much to take time off for a trip to Japan.

I would LOVE to go to Japan! Would you guys have a whip-round and see if you can come up with the scratch to send me?

 

[JPC2822]

Hello Tom.
We are LEAF enthusiasts! I am not happy with Nissan but I can't wait to get my LEAF! I do not work for Nissan and I have never owned a Nissan. I wish you the best with your Volt or whatever other vehicle you wish to buy. I understand and angree with your feelings regarding Nissan's delays and slow release of the LEAF. We must accept that the LEAF is not for everyone, if I was wealthy I would buy a Roadster!

 

[defiancecp]

wsbca Do you see the evidence now?? And I advise you to change the tone of your posts, if not, do not expect an answer!

DefianceCP

Please see the article dated Jan 17 I sent to EVNOW a moment ago. Fact is they have sold only 60 Vehicles in Japan, but manufactured 3,000 against 6,000 orders. So the argument that they did violate their contracts in the US
(per se not a very nice thing) to favor the Japanese customer in serach of the subsidy, seems not to be true!

You will agree with me that these vehicles must been retained for some reason! And as you can see from the reactions and denials by Nissan, I am certainly not the only who has heard of these (so maligned here) rumors!

About the Cold weather problem: the few Leafs delivered in the US were sold only in warm states. So that the experience there, cannot be very representative.

But there are dozens of articles on Internet stating the fact,
which says nothing negative of the LEAF, as common to all EVs) that the electrical heating of the cabin insumes a high proportion of the battery power, aside that this is an obvious fact. (Please read my post of today)

What is criticable that NISSAN has consistently not mentioned this fact. GM neither has said much, but
mentoned their Heat management (which is necessarely not very much effective. But they do not need to do so,
as they have the back up. The cost of the back up seen over the year is not a big issue, as obviously it will be used on a relatively small percentage of the years time.

But for pure pure EV's like the LEAF this is clearly a grave problem. For many person of my neighborhood, which have to drive about 50-60 miles/day frequently, they would not be able to do it when the temperature reach near freezing, unless they want to freeze themselves by not use the heating!

It would be nice that some of the companies like Edmunds and Powers peform let say about 100 test on different places with pre-established driving and heating patterns,. If they do that parallely with a VOLT, this would be even nicer!!

TOM

I'm not a fanatical leaf supporter, I've questioned many things about the leaf and especially about Nissan's behavior this launch. But I'm also not a fanatic detractor looking for some tidbit of misinformation I can spread conspiracy theories about, either. Honestly, you're posting nonsense and manipulating the truth to paint things negatively in spite of good, reasonable answers to your questions. There have never been contractual delivery dates, just stated expected delivery dates. I agree that they failed in communication, and deserve customer ire for that, but that's a huge jump away from violating contractual delivery dates :roll: It's not unusual (in fact fairly common practice) for a manufacturer to gear up, building a number of cars, then send out a heavy wave of them for delivery. It's fairly well understood that a small batch was delivered in order to maintain the promise to begin deliveries in December. Also, note that there has been severe cold weather (well below freezing) since they started shipping in many of the launch states. A lot of tennessee was packed down with snow and ice just a couple weeks ago. Seattle area has had some snow, and has had temps in the 20's (*f, that's well below 0 *c) repeatedly this month. You can go to the owner forum and read YOURSELF, NUMEROUS accounts of people using the heaters with no unexpectedly large impacts to their range.

There are no "serious doubts", the cars are on the roads working fine. If you want to have a DISCUSSION, do so - but your efforts to manufacture outrage won't find much of an audience here.

It's just sad that this kind of drivel sometimes does make it to the media, and people are sometimes stupid enough to believe it's anything more than boogeymen.

 

[evnow]

What is criticable that NISSAN has consistently not mentioned this fact.

Tom, Nissan has said a lot of things about it. Instead of writing made up stuff as news you should search first. I've even made graphs of what Nissan has published. I don't think you know or have read much about Leaf.

We all know about this cold problem. Not news to us, at all.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I am really tired of the strategy of some of the bloggers here asking continuously from supports of what is being already several time posted. The last straws provided are by questions where I read that Nissan says that the have produced already 3,000 cars and if the 60 cars "already delivered" where in Japan,

I will answer this questions, but I am not willing to continue to deal with fanatic Leaf admirers (or probably NIssan employees) using a strategy to find formal holes to cover the reality. If this blog is in the hands of NISSAN, I can only suggest to the really independent bloggers to analyze the facts and decide if they want to spent their money before the serious doubts regarding the LEAF are dispelled
I will, as some have suggested, WALK AWAY!!! (possibly other will follow!!)

Answer to above questions:

See article of Reuters of todaygoogle Reutere Nissan Leaf News)

"""Reuters) - Nissan Motor Co said on Tuesday it would add overtime and holidays at one if its Japanese factories toward the end of the business year in March to bring production of the Leaf electric car up to full speed.

Japan's second-biggest automaker has gradually ramped up output of its first mass-marketed zero-emission car since it started building the Leaf in late October, completing about 3,000 units to"""

And that the 60 deliveres refer to Japan is clear iby the sources cited in the artile and mention 6,000 orders, which refers to Japan, as the order in the US are allegedly 20,000.

As my Good by a advise to the moderators:

Look at the interchange and the poisonous posts of the LEAF people and decide if you want to do something about it, or accept that your otherwise really sophisticated organization becomes a propaganda organization for NISSAN!

If you, the moderator want to comment, you have my E-Mail!

TOM

Tom,

I am a moderator here, as far as I know the most involvement Nissan has here is lurking. If they are directly involved here I would find it more than entertaining and outside their marketing expertise for sure. To be frank, I privately defended your right to post here openly and I gave you the opportunity to do that effectively without moderation, perhaps you saw my public posts? My suggestion is that you may consider a modified approach to your posts and not be concerned about opinions you do not agree with. I'm not a LEAF fanboy and I will defend the right for differing points of view, the manner in which you choose to express your point will directly influence your credibility and ability to be heard objectively, regardless of any language barrier which should be deemed irrelevant. I would guess you have a thick skin based on your posts so if you arrive and leave abruptly it does not lend too much credibility to your points but it is certainly your choice if you feel frustrated or otherwise. You never mentioned any interest of lack there of in EVs or otherwise.

 

[sjfotos]

I usually go to the Nikkei news sources in Japan for reliable reporting. I include a link below:

http://e.nikkei.com/e/fr/tnks/Nni20110125D25JF850.htm

What I take away from this article are the following points:

1. Nissan's production plan for the current fiscal year, which ends on March 31st, was 10,000 units.

2. They plan to build 4,000 units in March.

3. They project a 3,000 unit build in February.

4. Units built prior to February are expected to be 3,000.

5. Of the 10,000 expected to be built by the end of March, fully 6,000 are meant for the Japanese market and 4,000 for the US.


The production skew (a classic 'hockey stick') and the Japanese market preference, especially near the end of the fiscal year are not unusual. That Nissan is a bit slow out of the gate seems a fact, but one can hardly declare that they are exceedingly far behind for an entirely new platform. Japanese customers are famously picky and the production of these first units is going to be very closely watched. I can attest personally to defects detected by Japanese customers in consumer PCs that were never detected, and indeed not considered defects at all, by American and Australian customers.

Net: Though I do think Nissan is lagging, they are not all that far off and I expect that after March, the evidence will prove this out.

As for our most recent vociferous forum visitor, I would assert that the most likely origin of these fevered observations is China.

 

[evnow]

As for our most recent vociferous forum visitor, I would assert that the most likely origin of these fevered observations is China.

Actually, his IP is in the US - though I can't tell if his English betrays any German hint. It is difficult to say what drives anyone, but hatred of a group of people is a powerful motivator.

 

[sjfotos]

As for our most recent vociferous forum visitor, I would assert that the most likely origin of these fevered observations is China.

Actually, his IP is in the US - though I can't tell if his English betrays any German hint. It is difficult to say what drives anyone, but hatred of a group of people is a powerful motivator.

Indeed it is.

And for the record, I have an equal number of (non-electronic!) Chinese and Japanese items in my house and a great admiration for both cultures. My guess was simply my best estimate of the origin.... IP address not withstanding.....though I do find it interesting!

 

[DaveEV]

2. They plan to build 4,000 units in March.
3. They project a 3,000 unit build in February.
4. Units built prior to February are expected to be 3,000.
5. Of the 10,000 expected to be built by the end of March, fully 6,000 are meant for the Japanese market and 4,000 for the US.

I would think that with 4,000 on a boat for the US by April that a LOT of orders will be filled in my then.

In fact - I would expect it to clear out any backlog in US orders VERY quickly once they arrive.

If you look at the spreadsheet the highest VIN on the radar is only in the low 300 range.

That would suggest that there really only has been about 100 US deliveries to date.

If there are nearly 3,000 LEAFs already built - where are they? Are nearly all being queued up for a massive launch in Japan (only about 60 have been delivered as of Jan 14 according to the article)? Unfortunately we have next to no information on actual delivered LEAFs to the Japanese market so far to judge delivery rate - but CarWings data seems to suggest that there aren't many.

Of the 3,000 to be built in February - where are those going? Going by the numbers that dealers have reported, it seems that perhaps another 100 or so will be delivered to the US in February and and another 100 in March - with the real ramp up happening in April with perhaps 3-5x that number getting to customers. So how long does it take a LEAF to make it out of the factory and in to a dealership lot? When will we start seeing thousands of LEAFs shipped to the US? Is Nissan being extremely conservative in their April dashboard dates so far? Then why is there already at least one on the spreadsheet reporting May delivery?

Edit: The 4,000 quoted above destined for the US market by end of March is actually for the US AND Europe - so who knows how those will be spread out...

 

[SteveInSeattle]

They will get here when they get here.

Other than that there isn't really much that is a fact-- no indication of problems, certainly no shut down of the plant. It seems only logical that they have had some bugs to work out. One thing we don't discuss much here is the Juke, built in the same plant in Oppama. It has sold far better than expected, so that could have slowed early Leaf production-- they come down the same line.

 

[EVDRIVER]

They will get here when they get here.

Other than that there isn't really much that is a fact-- no indication of problems, certainly no shut down of the plant. It seems only logical that they have had some bugs to work out. One thing we don't discuss much here is the Juke, built in the same plant in Oppama. It has sold far better than expected, so that could have slowed early Leaf production-- they come down the same line.

I looked at a Juke in the dealer, it was not made in that plant, there was another city on the sticker not Oppama, at least the US model.

 

[charlie1300]

Just an observation -
In this and other threads there seems to be some confusion between # of Leafs produced vs # of Leafs delivered to customers. Based on information in various threads (Including my all time favorite - tracking ships :lol: ) It appears that there is at least 4-6 weeks between a Leaf being produced, and it being delivered to a west coast customer. Will be longer for Europe, shorter for Japan. So the simplest explanation is that there are a whole lot of Leafs currently in transit to various dealers in various countries. A couple months will tell if there is a more complicated explanation. For now, I'll go by Occam's razor.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just an observation -
In this and other threads there seems to be some confusion between # of Leafs produced vs # of Leafs delivered to customers. Based on information in various threads (Including my all time favorite - tracking ships :lol: ) It appears that there is at least 4-6 weeks between a Leaf being produced, and it being delivered to a west coast customer. Will be longer for Europe, shorter for Japan. So the simplest explanation is that there are a whole lot of Leafs currently in transit to various dealers in various countries. A couple months will tell if there is a more complicated explanation. For now, I'll go by Occam's razor.

If 4-4 weeks is true why was I unable to change my color on Dec 10 but I have a March delivery date? That's more like 11-12 weeks if it was in production.