Will Nissan Refund the $700 we Wasted on CHAdeMO sockets?

tps said:

Herm said:

they are offering a much lower cost product and only 11 miles of range less.

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IMHO, less range is the wrong way at this point. When QC infrastructure is built out, it will be less of a problem. But for the next few years, more range is definitely a plus. As more QC stations are added, the CHAdeMO socket on the LEAF will look like less of a waste and more of a necessity.

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Actually, now that I'm seeing just how radically I have been over estimated my sense of need in terms of range for around town stuff and reading how most folks travel around 40 miles a day (turns out we are pretty average), I think there is a niche for a smaller lower range vehicle. The challenge is going to be in finding where the actual sweet spot is in terms of economy and capacity for the mass market. Add a vast charging network, and equation could tilt even more toward shorter range for a metro vehicle. The future is not going to bring us a one size fits all EV, but rather a plethera of options, some smaller, some bigger than the LEAF.

In the future, when a long distance EV (200-300m) is available for around 40-50K, I can see pairing that with one that only gets, say only 50 miles. On average, we are driving the LEAF about 50 miles a day, well within the 80% charge range for overnight charging; add in some opportunity charging and the LEAF is actually well beyond our needs for a metro vehicle, which means we are paying a premium for a lot of unused capacity on average. If you had told me this just months ago, I would never have believed you!

For now, the LEAF is a good middle ground, especially once QC is available as we will be able to push the battery on occasion for long trips and continue to have zero range anxiety for metro driving.

g

evnow said:

We have best of both worlds. Clean & convinient driving 90% of the days. Convinient ICE driving the rest.

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98.5% of the days for me! I've used our ICE car for 3 days (2 distinct trips) out of the 194 days I've had the car so far.

GaslessInSeattle said:

Actually, now that I'm seeing just how radically I have been over estimated my sense of need in terms of range for around town stuff and reading how most folks travel around 40 miles a day (turns out we are pretty average), I think there is a niche for a smaller lower range vehicle.

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I am one of those folks who drives 35-40 miles in an average day. However, a couple times a month I make 60-70 miles trips. This will be doable in the LEAF with little range anxiety, but might be a little close for comfort in the Mitsubishi. Once the charge infrastructure is built out a bit, this will be different, but it looks as if I'll be pretty much on my own for at least a couple of years. Unfortunately, the East Coast is trailing quite a bit behind the West Coast in terms of charging infrastructure.

I Posted this elsewhere, but it is more appropriate here.

Another indication CHAdeMO will likely become the standard. I'm very glad Nissan is now making the DC port standard equipment, in the future, in support of the technology that will give the BEV primary-car capability for all American Drivers.

Good news from AAA, for LEAF and IMIEV owners.

Bad news for BEV manufacturers dragging their feet on fast charging.


Quote:
For electric car drivers, that means that AAA's trucks will soon provide a "range anxiety solution" thanks to technology from Green Charge Networks. The new trucks, which will be rolled out in a limited pilot program over the next year, can offer all the standard AAA services as well as a bit of EV recharging. The trucks have a 4.5 kWh lithium-ion battery on board that can give a stranded electric car anywhere between 15 and three miles of power. This range is dependent on the type of charger the car has and because AAA doesn't like to sit for more than 15 minutes on the side of the road. If they can't solve the problem in that time, it's usually preferred to tow the car in (this is standard AAA practice). So, if the EV can take a DC fast charge using CHAdeMo, it can get around 15 miles of juice in a 15-minute charge. With a more common Level 2 J1772 charger, a car can get either six miles (using a 6.6 kW charger) or three miles (3.3 kW) in those same 15 minutes.
http://green.autoblog.com/

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It's remarkable how the sense of all this can change over just a few weeks. It does appear that CHAdeMO is going to be a reality at least for the short run.

I think it's worth saying, Nissan sure did think through an awful lot of stuff before putting the first gen LEAFs out in the wild. I think Apple is the only other company I have seen pull off something so ground breaking so well!

I don't think the anti CHAdeMO movement is dead. Brian Smith, CEO of Go Smart Technologies, tweeted the following during the DC charging session today at the PlugIn 2011 conference. Gery Kissel is the GM rep that's the chair of the SAE's DC charging committee?

Brian Smith said:

#plugin2011 Gery Kissel driving home the SAE DC charging. Far more capable that other "standards" out there.

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rnkepler said:

I don't think the anti CHAdeMO movement is dead. Brian Smith, CEO of Go Smart Technologies, tweeted the following during the DC charging session today at the PlugIn 2011 conference. Gery Kissel is the GM rep that's the chair of the SAE's DC charging committee?

Brian Smith said:

#plugin2011 Gery Kissel driving home the SAE DC charging. Far more capable that other "standards" out there.

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Of course he has a vested interest, but he's too late. What in the hell does "far more capable" mean anyway?

z0ner said:

Of course he has a vested interest, but he's too late. What in the hell does "far more capable" mean anyway?

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He must be referring to the thousands of chargers and cars that have SAE DC ports...

davewill said:

z0ner said:

Of course he has a vested interest, but he's too late. What in the hell does "far more capable" mean anyway?

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He must be referring to the thousands of chargers and cars that have SAE DC ports...

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...millions and millions of SAE DC ports..... when he dreams, he dreams big.... :lol:

CHAdeMO it is then, at 800 Walgreens by year end?!!

If i'm reading this right, I'm declaring game over for the SAE and boy am I glad I went for the SL with QC!

https://www.greenbiz.com/news/2011/07/21/walgreens-install-ev-charging-stations-800-stores

nice!!! reposting this link everywhere!!

GaslessInSeattle said:

CHAdeMO it is then, at 800 Walgreens by year end?!!

If i'm reading this right, I'm declaring game over for the SAE and boy am I glad I went for the SL with QC!

https://www.greenbiz.com/news/2011/07/21/walgreens-install-ev-charging-stations-800-stores

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Not quite. It's unknown how many (or how few) CHAdeMO stations will be installed, but at least it's a start.

EV drivers who want to recharge their cars at a Walgreens will find one of two types of devices: a high-speed direct current charger, which can add 30 miles of range in roughly 10 minutes, or a Level 2 device that adds as much as 25 miles of range per hour of charge.

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tps said:

adric22 said:

create some kind of logo for each type and put it above the charging station like they do with "unleaded" or "diesel" at most gas stations.

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Yeah... Everything has to be a picture; people don't want to read.

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Maybe the Park Service should put a picture of skulls cracking open on rocks on the signs at the top of Vernal Falls. (Edit: sorry for taking it off topic, although it was sort of going there anyway. No need to comment here. People are dumb, but anyone buying an EV will just have to learn how to charge it. I'm all for the CHAdeMO because that's what I have in the car. I don't see the point of a single socket. I know the designers want it because it reduces the surface area taken up with the port, but to me that's a non-issue and shouldn't be a factor the government or regulators should use. Designers can always stick it behind the license plate or something to get smooth lines.)

DaveinOlyWA said:

nice!!! reposting this link everywhere!!

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Yeah, I got a little carried away, sorry, then again 800 charging stations is pretty epic... So many things are coming together so quickly after such a long phase of doubt and skepticism.

GaslessInSeattle said:

CHAdeMO it is then, at 800 Walgreens by year end?!!

If i'm reading this right, I'm declaring game over for the SAE and boy am I glad I went for the SL with QC!

https://www.greenbiz.com/news/2011/07/21/walgreens-install-ev-charging-stations-800-stores

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That's what Ford's chief engineer afraid.

We're in a race on standards that, bluntly, we may not win because it's taking a long time to get these through committees I can't imagine not taking advantage of the opportunity, as this industry is reborn.

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http://green.autoblog.com/2011/04/21/finalization-of-u-s-standard-for-level-3-connector-to-come-in-2/

after reading the comments that go along with that article, I hope CHAdeMO has the capacity for something like the Tesla S's 300 mile pack, and is truly safe. It seems like a matter of course even in the short run that long range batteries will be available relatively soon. It would be unfortunate if a lesser standard were adopted purely because of the SAE couldn't get it's act together fast enough.
g

The standards are not set and will change. In less than 10 years we will be putting back twice the power in less than half the time.

Cars with 75kwh usable packs will be rare for some time to come, thats what a 300 mile pack looks like.

At the long term goal of $250 per kwh that would work out to about $20k, so probably for luxury vehicles only.. no idea what the sweet spot for batteries will turn out to be.

I remember auditing an LP (that is long playing vinyl record) mastering plant in 1983 or so. The plant manager was convinced LPs were here to stay because anyone could afford to buy a complete system for $79 that would play vinyl records. Very few could afford music CD player at $500 plus $20 CD albums.

That plant was shut down a few years later.

The previous post reminded me of that long ago conversation.

Today only the "rich" would buy a $20,000 battery to go 300 miles. To which I inferred, most anyone could afford an ICE car for less than $20,000 (or $5,000 used) and fill up anywhere and go for unlimited range.

We'll see.

DrRocket said:

I remember auditing an LP (that is long playing vinyl record) mastering plant in 1983 or so. The plant manager was convinced LPs were here to stay because anyone could afford to buy a complete system for $79 that would play vinyl records. Very few could afford music CD player at $500 plus $20 CD albums.

That plant was shut down a few years later.....

We'll see.

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I definitely have had this conversation a few times. What's different is that the LP's didn't subsequently go up in price.... but petroleum does and will continue to do so.

I suspect that we could guess at what price oil and batteries need to be for the conversion to take place.