Will Nissan Refund the $700 we Wasted on CHAdeMO sockets?

[driveleaf]

I am with Tronz. (And not just because my career owes some of it's acclaim to Tron.)

We all signed the disclaimer that no standard had been agreed on, and that we were taking a leap of technical faith.

I will however, fully support our groups efforts to educate the SAE, and make a showing at any of their meetings of our CHAdeMO equipped vehicles.

If there's an event in Florida, let me know. I'll bring my Level 3 ready EV to make a point.

-driveleaf

 

[smkettner]

Well it is not just the port that was ordered. There is also the power and comunication cabling in the car. At least with the port you can decide if the conversion or an adapter or non use is better for your needs.

I skipped on the $700 option due to no QC stations, probably not needed for my lifestyle, standard was well known to be in flux. However I also skipped any chance to adapt to what becomes available.

 

[TRONZ]

We should invite CNN along to one of the SAE meetings. Get it on the record which corporations are making the decisions for Americans.

Who in Government oversees the SAE???

 

[Spies]

Who in Government oversees the SAE???

Forgive my ignorance but I was not aware that the Government oversees the SAE at all.

 

[TRONZ]

Do they??? I do not know a great deal about the SAE and do not know if they have any oversight or regulatory power. If not then that's great news for our L3 ports. AKA- The market will decide the standard.

 

[smkettner]

Even if SAE approves a different standard... who will build an L3 for which there are no vehicles?
How soon will GM, Ford or others use this new standard and compete?
Would Nissan and Mitsubishi change?

 

[TRONZ]

Is the Ford Focus EV going to have L3 capability??? If so, what plug???

 

[Spies]

Well I am certainly hoping that this all plays out more like DVD where a format war was averted and less like the ugly Blu-ray/HD DVD format war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVD
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_definition_optical_disc_format_war

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i got the option (only paid $620 for mine though...or maybe it was $630??) but did not then nor do i now imagine using it more often than a few times a year. as far as this standards crap. just do something, ANYTHING and we will deal with it from there.

no matter what the plug, there will be someone (PHIL??) who will figure out how to make it work, so stop the talking and start doing something and lets not do the Big 3 model of "forward thinking" by not thinking and waiting around for someone else to do it first

 

[DaveEV]

Is the Ford Focus EV going to have L3 capability??? If so, what plug???

No DC quick charge for the Focus EV that I've heard of - only 6.6 kW L2 - big reason to go with 6.6 kW L2 instead of 3.3 kW. Am actually surprised they didn't go even higher in capability - there are a growing number of L2 stations out in the wild that can go well over 32 A on 240V AC - mostly converted Tesla stations...

 

[SierraQ]

Texas is going for CHAdeMO even if other states are not yet. Here we have EVGO starting to install them everywhere. (Only issue is EVGO is a private network for its members so it remains yet to be seen if public stations will follow their example.) Supposedly they are working with other states to encourage level 3 charging stations...

In the end I don't think it will matter. Either someone will come up with an SAE-->CHAdeMO adapter (as long as SAE doesn't screw it up too badly) or it will take so long to agree on the standard that by then CHAdeMO may be more entrenched.

All that being said, I can't fault SAE's reasoning that they want ONE port, not several. I think if CHAdeMO had somehow worked within the other port it might have been adopted with less resistance.

 

[DarkStar]

Do they??? I do not know a great deal about the SAE and do not know if they have any oversight or regulatory power. If not then that's great news for our L3 ports. AKA- The market will decide the standard.

Correct, SAE International holds no regulatory power and they are a private organization made up of professional vehicle engineers.

The idea is that they are made up of representatives from the various automotive manufacturers and work together to develop standards and testing procedures that they can all follow.

Then again the National Electrical Manufacturers Association (NEMA) is also just a private organization made up of electrical manufacturing engineers and serve the same purpose, but we see our governments, everyday, require that us individuals follow their standards.

If you're wondering where Underwriters Laboratories and Intertek come into play, they are both product testing and certification organizations. They will test products to verify they conform to whatever standard they are being tested for, whether that be a SAE standard or NEMA standard. If the item passes, it gets that organizations "listing" (a.k.a. UL Listed or ETL Mark).

So, does a DC Quick Charge station need to be UL Listed in order to be operational to the public? No, absolutely not. The only thing that UL Listing provides is a 3rd party verification that the product does what it's supposed to. Then again, it could just have an ETL Mark instead of UL Listing and that is still 3rd party verified.

 

[davewill]

So, does a DC Quick Charge station need to be UL Listed in order to be operational to the public? No, absolutely not. The only thing that UL Listing provides is a 3rd party verification that the product does what it's supposed to. Then again, it could just have an ETL Mark instead of UL Listing and that is still 3rd party verified.

A local government or utility could easily require certification as a condition for one to be put in operation. So might a private venue owner like a shopping mall.

 

[DarkStar]

So, does a DC Quick Charge station need to be UL Listed in order to be operational to the public? No, absolutely not. The only thing that UL Listing provides is a 3rd party verification that the product does what it's supposed to. Then again, it could just have an ETL Mark instead of UL Listing and that is still 3rd party verified.

A local government or utility could easily require certification as a condition for one to be put in operation. So might a private venue owner like a shopping mall.

They could, but so far I haven't seen one. It would be strange if it was required because then you wouldn't be able to buy anything from Ikea that plugs into an outlet...

 

[davewill]

So, does a DC Quick Charge station need to be UL Listed in order to be operational to the public? No, absolutely not. The only thing that UL Listing provides is a 3rd party verification that the product does what it's supposed to. Then again, it could just have an ETL Mark instead of UL Listing and that is still 3rd party verified.

A local government or utility could easily require certification as a condition for one to be put in operation. So might a private venue owner like a shopping mall.

They could, but so far I haven't seen one. It would be strange if it was required because then you wouldn't be able to buy anything from Ikea that plugs into an outlet...

You can buy a DC Quick Charger from Ikea? We already know that the QC in Vacaville is being held back over UL listing. Lots of governments are just now figuring out the rules for these chargers. Just because it isn't required for consumer goods means nothing.

 

[Herm]

Half the stuff in Wal-Mart does not have UL certification

 

[Spies]

We already know that the QC in Vacaville is being held back over UL listing. Lots of governments are just now figuring out the rules for these chargers. Just because it isn't required for consumer goods means nothing.

I don't recall anything about the government requiring the Vacaville DC QC be UL listed before it is switched back on. I have only read about PG&E wanting it to be UL listed before they turn it back on. Don't forget it was operational and open to the public for months without UL listing.

 

[davewill]

We already know that the QC in Vacaville is being held back over UL listing. Lots of governments are just now figuring out the rules for these chargers. Just because it isn't required for consumer goods means nothing.

I don't recall anything about the government requiring the Vacaville DC QC be UL listed before it is switched back on. I have only read about PG&E wanting it to be UL listed before they turn it back on.

That's why I also mentioned utilities and private property owners. :roll:

 

[Spies]

That's why I also mentioned utilities and private property owners. :roll:

Fair enough It is just frustrating that the Vacaville DC QC was operational and open to the public for months and then they decide to keep it shut down awaiting UL listing

 

[smkettner]

I think the UL rating makes it easier to get insurance.
UL rating has little to do with what SAE says to use for the connector.