Lost Battery Capacity and Range / Autonomy, Page 2

[dgpcolorado]

...Still not sure were you are getting 92 miles...

I think that is the infamous MPGe number. The sticker from my 2012 says MPGeqivalent 99 (combined city/highway), 106 (city), 92 (highway). MPGe is worse than useless: it is profoundly misleading to the average LEAF buyer. The actual range number is to the right of the bar graph below MPGe numbers, with a "73" in a smaller font. The whole layout should be reversed with the actual EPA range in large font at the top. But, no, they have to prominently display MPGe so that it can be compared with ICE cars' MPG, even though MPGe is a completely artificial calculation with no real meaning when it comes to EVs (except as a measure of relative energy efficiency), and which has nothing whatsoever to do with range.

 

[user 11773]

Made it. Left with full charge of 77 miles and 84 in ECO. Drove Eco under speed limit and at midpoint of 64 miles, had 38 miles left. Drove most of the way back in non-Eco by mistake and switched to Eco about five miles from home. One beep at 8 miles and had 4 left in garage. So, if there is a reserve after hitting zero, then it still has some poop left.
The original literature says 100 miles*, footnoting http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; which is the LA test and it says 92 hwy
literature # 1111321N-09/10-150CGI

 

[DaveEV]

Made it. ... Drove Eco under speed limit and at midpoint of 64 miles

How fast were you going? Did you reset one of the mi/kWh gauges (dash or center console) and see what that read after your trip?

 

[user 11773]

I didn't do as much as I could, I guess:
54 degrees leaving my house, in Eco mode, went a few miles at 35-40mph, then about ten miles at 47 with one turn in there. On the freeway (101) for 19 miles at 58 with cruise control and off at the exit before her work, so I could charge on deceleration and stop/start. Got a piece of pizza at Costco, and back to 101 at 58 with cruise, for 19 miles, although it wasn't in Eco anymore. Off at price canyon for about ten miles at 49mph, switching to Eco about halfway. Got a beep at 8 miles, when I was over 8 from home. Got home with 4 left. It stayed on 8 forever. Also, there is a long flat stretch, in that 19 miles leg, that both ways, the fuel gauge didn't move. Must be the new software from last fall. I must have driven 8 miles with the same reading on it, going down south and the same thing happened on the way home.

New update: called the dealer to see how much a batte3ry pack is and you cannot buy one. I have to bring the car in to be inspected by the Nissan corp rep to see if they can replace certain cells, but not the whole pack. awaiting info on when he will be in this area. I figure we have to fix this, as trade in or new car is financially unsound.

 

[DaveEV]

New update: called the dealer to see how much a batte3ry pack is and you cannot buy one. I have to bring the car in to be inspected by the Nissan corp rep to see if they can replace certain cells, but not the whole pack. awaiting info on when he will be in this area. I figure we have to fix this, as trade in or new car is financially unsound.

Well, you had at least 4 miles left on it as you hadn't hit the VLBW warning yet (where GOM changes to --- from number), so at least 68 miles range in the car.

Assuming a new LEAF would have given you 86 miles range at mostly 58 mph and that you are down at least 15% capacity (assume 18%), that would get you about 70 miles to turtle. Car sounds "normal" to me and I doubt the dealer will find any modules weak enough to be replaced, but good luck.

 

[Deleted member 1622]

This is just a hard reality that most Leaf owners figure out in the first couple months: any numbers above 70 highway miles that you've read, been told by a salesperson, or got from Nissan are just wrong. There's nothing wrong with your battery, this is a case of false expectations given out by unrealistic test scenarios that Nissan puts on. My rule of thumb is 50 miles: this is the highway round-trip that will never cause you heartache or range-anxiety, even three years after buying the car. I have had mine for 3 years, and with about 16% degradation I can go 56 miles highway. But you know what? Because of my 50-mile rule, I don't fret about it, I just enjoy the ride. With your newer car, you can blast the heat for 50 miles and never have to look at your dash once.
Josh

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am in San Luis Obispo, CA, Not sure where you got Kansas from. About 60 degrees, I got 92 miles from EPA data that was referenced in my sales brochure that said 100*. I am trying to make a point to NIssan, that they told us 100 and referenced EPA who said 92 hwy, and we will see what it actually is today.

MPGe ratings have nothing to do with how much range you have. You have been told several times that u r mistaken.

 

[elana]

I am very disappointed with the capacity of my Leafs battery. My capacity lines have dropped to 10. This level doesn’t get me a new battery even though my vehicle only goes 35-40 miles on a full charge.
My Leaf had the software update and feel that the update prevents an accurate capacity reading. My capacity lines haven’t dropped since the software update even though my charging time and driving range have had an extreme drop. Has anyone else had the same experience?

 

[KJD]

I am very disappointed with the capacity of my Leafs battery. My capacity lines have dropped to 10. This level doesn’t get me a new battery even though my vehicle only goes 35-40 miles on a full charge.
My Leaf had the software update and feel that the update prevents an accurate capacity reading. My capacity lines haven’t dropped since the software update even though my charging time and driving range have had an extreme drop. Has anyone else had the same experience?

My range was pretty much the same, before and after the software upgrade.

Regen is much much worse from the software update however.

 

[elana]

Hi everyone, I had my battery tested by an automotive lithium-ion battery scientist and at 100% SOC the BMS broadcasts 69%. Nissan being the wordsmiths that they are said they don’t go by the 24kw battery capacity that we were sold but your car has to have less than 70% of the per delivery inspection battery capacity. That capacity level is different for every car, so if you got delivered a lemon battery that only had 18kw at the PDI you have to have 69% of 18kw to get your battery replaced!!!

 

[abasile]

Hi everyone, I had my battery tested by an automotive lithium-ion battery scientist and at 100% SOC the BMS broadcasts 69%. Nissan being the wordsmiths that they are said they don’t go by the 24kw battery capacity that we were sold but your car has to have less than 70% of the per delivery inspection battery capacity. That capacity level is different for every car, so if you got delivered a lemon battery that only had 18kw at the PDI you have to have 69% of 18kw to get your battery replaced!!!

My understanding is that the BMS does not allow the top 5% nor the bottom 2% of the 24 kWh capacity to be accessed, so the usable capacity of a new battery pack is 22.3 kWh or less. I'm not sure what that "69%" represents; do you have any further details? 69% of 24 kWh would be 16.6 kWh, or 74% of the original usable capacity of 22.3 kWh. I don't know if this is a correct understanding of your data, but if it is, then it seems that your battery is at the low end of 10 capacity bars, and you are due to lose another bar soon.

I agree with you that this is disappointing. Our LEAF has fared better than yours thanks to our relatively cool climate, but still worse than expected, and we are highly unlikely to qualify for the capacity warranty. While it probably won't help me personally, I do hope that the chemistry tweaks planned for 2014 make a difference. Even in cool climates, LEAF batteries do get hot at times, from quick charging, warm summer weather, etc.

 

[Weatherman]

Since the warranty reads as follows:

"The Nissan LEAF® Lithium-ion battery is also warranted against capacity loss below nine bars of capacity as shown on the vehicle’s battery capacity level gauge for a period of 60 months or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. "

Everything else is interesting, but academic.

Got to drop that fourth capacity bar before you get any help from Nissan.

 

[elana]

Hi everyone
I have had anther day of useless running around thanks to Nissan Corporate and Paul Smith. He said that the 30% Leaf battery degradation was calculated off the KWh written on the PDI (pre delivery inspection form), the PDI copy I had didn’t show a number value. So I went to the Dealership twice to get a copy of their PDI form. To see if their copy had the kwhs listed. They informed me that They have never listed the KWhs on a PDI Form, Thank You Nissan Corporate, you just sent me running around for nothing! .I think you should pay me for my time.
I was also supposed to get a phone call from a supervisor at Leaf customer support, but guess what they never called.

 

[KJD]

Hi everyone, I had my battery tested by an automotive lithium-ion battery scientist and at 100% SOC the BMS broadcasts 69%. Nissan being the wordsmiths that they are said they don’t go by the 24kw battery capacity that we were sold but your car has to have less than 70% of the per delivery inspection battery capacity. That capacity level is different for every car, so if you got delivered a lemon battery that only had 18kw at the PDI you have to have 69% of 18kw to get your battery replaced!!!

If you had the battery tested by a "battery scientist" why don't just publish the results here and let everyone look over your test results ?

 

[elana]

I did tell you the results. But I'm not going to have the state official who did the testing be harassed

 

[KJD]

I did tell you the results. But I'm not going to have the state official who did the testing be harassed

What was your testing method ?

 

[elana]

The same as Nissan. He has a meter that hooks up to the car's computer.

 

[KJD]

The same as Nissan. He has a meter that hooks up to the car's computer.

Was the meter built by Nissan or someone else ?

 

[elana]

I didn't ask him but he said it was the same meter Nissan uses. So I would assume it is.

 

[KJD]

I didn't ask him but he said it was the same meter Nissan uses. So I would assume it is.

The Nissan battery pack consists of 48 modules. The Nissan test equipment will give stats on each of those 48 modules. If you have the printed results of that test or the data file created you should email that data to Nissan. You should also post the page here for the MNL people to examine it.

The Nissan LEAF battery pack degrades faster in hot weather areas like AZ and TX. What city and state are you located in ?

How many miles are on your car ?