Will Nissan Refund the $700 we Wasted on CHAdeMO sockets?

[hill]

Apparently, the good folks at the SAE are wanting to do away with it.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/16/report-carb-says-u-s-is-leaning-towards-non-chademo-quick-char/

"... Yesterday [May 12], Craig Childers of the California Air Resources Board (CARB), said it appears that the U.S. is strongly leaning toward adopting a non-CHAdeMO charge format ..."

Just lovely.

 

[davewill]

Apparently, the good folks at the SAE are wanting to do away with it.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/05/16/report-carb-says-u-s-is-leaning-towards-non-chademo-quick-char/

"... Yesterday [May 12], Craig Childers of the California Air Resources Board (CARB), said it appears that the U.S. is strongly leaning toward adopting a non-CHAdeMO charge format ..."

Just lovely.

There's a reason it's called the bleeding edge...

 

[TonyWilliams]

Answer: NO

 

[TomT]

I suspect that the majority of those with the QC option got it for free from the EV Project. I know of only a handful (see the spreadsheet) that actually paid for it... Thus, it may turn out to be useless but at least there was no cost for those particular individuals.

Nissan really missed the boat by not requiring QC chargers at the dealerships in the U.S. as they did in Europe!
If they had, that critical mass might well, have tipped the scale in their favor.,

 

[JasonT]

Apparently, the good folks at the SAE are wanting to do away with it..

I wouldn't lose hope just yet
-It has been said that the CHAdeMO socket may become the "de-facto" standard just due to numbers. There are a couple of CHAdeMO stations, there is the Nissan Leaf with the CHAdeMO socket, and there are other companies besides Nissan behind CHAdeMO.
-This hasn't been decided yet.
-It is very possible that even if another socket is decided upon, that those with CHAdeMO will be able to be retrofitted. It may be as simple as just changing the plug on the end.

At this time, I see three possibilities:
1)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan charges for the retrofit
2)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan does retrofit for free (or low cost)
3)CHAdeMO wins - either by SAE or by "default"

There is a fourth possibility, that the Leaf will not be able to handle the new standard even with modifications. I personally feel that is a very remote possibility, and not worth worrying about.

I do understand the frustration. There were supposed to be DC stations in AZ by the middle of last month. Last I checked they still aren't installed. Whether or not it is the standard it doesn't matter right now -- I still can't use it. But as davewill is hinting at -- not only is this the first year for the Leaf (many people are surprised I was fine with buying a first-year model), but it's the first mass-produced electric car that Nissan has done. Anyone buying this car and not expecting a few bumps is a little naive.

 

[thankyouOB]

Apparently, the good folks at the SAE are wanting to do away with it..

I wouldn't lose hope just yet
-It has been said that the CHAdeMO socket may become the "de-facto" standard just due to numbers. There are a couple of CHAdeMO stations, there is the Nissan Leaf with the CHAdeMO socket, and there are other companies besides Nissan behind CHAdeMO.
-This hasn't been decided yet.
-It is very possible that even if another socket is decided upon, that those with CHAdeMO will be able to be retrofitted. It may be as simple as just changing the plug on the end.

At this time, I see three possibilities:
1)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan charges for the retrofit
2)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan does retrofit for free (or low cost)
3)CHAdeMO wins - either by SAE or by "default"

There is a fourth possibility, that the Leaf will not be able to handle the new standard even with modifications. I personally feel that is a very remote possibility, and not worth worrying about.

I do understand the frustration. There were supposed to be DC stations in AZ by the middle of last month. Last I checked they still aren't installed. Whether or not it is the standard it doesn't matter right now -- I still can't use it. But as davewill is hinting at -- not only is this the first year for the Leaf (many people are surprised I was fine with buying a first-year model), but it's the first mass-produced electric car that Nissan has done. Anyone buying this car and not expecting a few bumps is a little naive.

Mitsubishi, which says it will have its car out in the end of 2011, is very very behind CHAdeMOE.
i heard a talk on it last year. there smaller car and battery pack is almost dependent on it for many applications.

 

[edatoakrun]

At this time, I see three possibilities:
1)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan charges for the retrofit
2)Different standard is decided in the US, Nissan does retrofit for free (or low cost)
3)CHAdeMO wins - either by SAE or by "default"

Or:

4) SAE, dominated by US manufactures who HAVE BUILT NO BEV vehicles that can DC charge, insist on a SAE standard other than CHAdeMO, just in case they get around to building them someday.

DC chargers may be built to accommodate both systems. I've been told equipping DC chargers with dual cables/plugs is not a great technical problem or expense, compared to the total cost of a DC Charger installation. But this "controversy" is already is an invaluable FUD source for those opposed to building the DC infrastructure as quickly as possible.

About 400 miles on my LEAF the first week, and I love it, but since I can't fast charge on the freeway, it's not "finished" yet.

I (still) want my fast DC!

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2374

 

[Amary]

I wonder if this is the real reason for the delayed deployment of the QC stations.

It seems that it would also be possible to make an adapter that goes from an SAE "nozzle" to a CHAdeMO port. This would likely be less expensive than retrofitting the ports (for existing cars), and would still allow CHAdeMO quick charging. Or, as pointed out, dual plugs on charging stations shouldn't be difficult.

Too bad they couldn't get their act together to standardize this a year or two ago…

 

[adric22]

I'd just be thrilled to see some regular level-II charging stations popping up around town. So far, nothing..

 

[DarkStar]

Mitsubishi, which says it will have its car out in the end of 2011, is very very behind CHAdeMOE.
i heard a talk on it last year. there smaller car and battery pack is almost dependent on it for many applications.

Thank you for making me laugh so hard I now get to clean coffee off of my keyboard and monitor.

I don't know if you misspelled CHAdeMO on purpose or not, but CHAdeMOE is hilarious for us that know "moe" is a Japanese slang term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

 

[TRONZ]

I am not going to panic. The worst that can happen is the "recommendation" of a different standard. But since it is recommended by the fine anti-EV folks at GM-Ford (and their oil puppet masters) it will never be rolled out. AKA- The Japanese standard will win by default.

 

[hill]

I am not going to panic. The worst that can happen is the "recommendation" of a different standard. But since it is recommended by the fine anti-EV folks at GM-Ford (and their oil puppet masters) it will never be rolled out. AKA- The Japanese standard will win by default.

imo, TRONZ is all over it. You have GM-Ford who (regarding EV manufacturing) are feeling like their pants are around down their ankles. Now ... half heartedly being FORCED back into the EV game (shades of 1990's anti EV mentality), the VERY VERY last thing GM-Ford want to have to do is pay royalties in order to manufacture Japan's De-facto quick charge standardized socket. What a slap in the face this whole EV quick charge issue must be to them. They get NOTHING in the way of environmental halo effect ... and they have to simply follow the EV manufacturing heard. So I can VERY easily see SAE folks being in bed with GM-Ford, and trying to put the kibosh to CHAdeMO. I for one know for CERTAIN that if pulling the CHAdeMO standard would have been a known possibility a year ago, that I'd have NEVER ordered it. It's likely most never would order it either. It's likely that prospective buyers will never order it either, thinking there may be a chance it'll never come about.

If I were a charger manufacturer? No way in heck would I manufacture a 480V DC unit costing 5 figures, if there was even an inkling of a possibility of it's certification being messed with ... albeit for a corrupt motive. You don't think this is corrupt? Think for a minute - the Ford/GM spin must be something like, "well ... maybe we can build a better 'All-In-One' socket". Really? Then why didn't you do it already!?! Because there ain't such an animal. What ... are they going to re-invent J1772 so they can stuff CHAdeMO into this fictional "all-in-one" abortion? Where IS GM's/Ford's data showing how cheap this (imaginary) all-new wonder/mystery universal socket will be? Such a Rube Goldberg socket does not exist ... nor have either of these two manufacturers even dreamed up this wet dream yet ... though I'm certain they're busy experimenting ( "... WAIT ... WAIT ... we need more TIME" ) with just such a thing. You would have the same diameter of plastic parts ... copper parts ... etc in a "one massive charger/socket head fits all" type application as you would the existing two sockets standard. This is really a new low, in the world of underhanded lows, imo.

If I were Mitsubishi and Nissan, I would be spending BIG bucks to flood the market with L3 chargers ... just to make sure that they got built ... so that the detractors couldn't muck things up, just as the network is beginning to get built.

 

[Boomer23]

I for one know for CERTAIN that if pulling the CHAdeMO standard would have been a known possibility a year ago, that I'd have NEVER ordered it.

Hill, I remember clearly knowing that the L3 standard was still being wrangled at SAE at the time that I ordered the quick charge port. I remember that Nissan was sounding reluctant to allow many orders of the QC port because the L3 standard wasn't set yet. We got all up in arms (as we will do :lol: ) that Nissan shouldn't limit the availability of the QC port. We knew that the standard wasn't set, but we all wanted the ability to do quick charging and we hoped that Nissan could tip the decision in the favor of CHAdeMO by putting a lot of cars on the road with that format.

I certainly hope that the CHAdeMO format wins the fight, of course. But I knew it was a gamble when I ordered it.

I could dredge up some example posts from when this was a hot topic, but I don't really feel like searching this afternoon.

 

[TRONZ]

It's also good to remember that the CHAdeMO port was required for The EV Project. That means the first clusters of L3 chargers will have to have this standard as part of the government contract. SAE can (and will do) whatever it wants. We will be busy using CHAdeMO units long before any U.S. cars with the other standard are ever made.

 

[Lopton]

Why would Nissan pay you for something you bought? I am perplexed by this notion? Should they pay you when the Tesla Model S comes out because it goes further? If you are going to put down money on something and do your research, this news isn't new in my opinion. And if you really want to do something write to every one you can at SAE board and let them know what you think about the problem. This is not issue Nissan should have to pay any one for, it is an unfortunate side effect of living in a country that must have it's own stupid standard for everything, we have to be different.

-Matt

 

[TRONZ]

BTW- @SAE, whose InBox should we flame regarding this???

 

[walterbays]

BTW- @SAE, whose InBox should we flame regarding this???

One possibility would be for everyone to contact their local chapter. http://www.sae.org/globalsections/sections/list/. Another would be for LEAFs to show up en masse to picket one of their events, http://www.sae.org/events/conferences/groundvehicle/, but by coincidence (?) their event locations seem not to coincide with LEAF launch states. That is, until 2012 when they will have an EV symposium in San Diego, http://www.sae.org/events/training/symposia/. Maybe that will be about the time the first EV from Detroit hits the pavement - of course still lacking any DC quick charger. If Detroit doesn't produce any quick charge capable car until after Nissan's Smyrna plant has been pumping out LEAFs for a year or two, DOE finally gets ECOtality's act together and installs all those CHAdeMO stations, plus all the private installations we've heard of, plus any aftermarket chargers faster than 3.3 kW coming in through the CHAdeMO port... and any standard that ignores the installed base is going to adapt to reality or be irrelevant. TRONZ, I join you in not worrying about it.

By the way, I seem to remember when I made my reservation and/or my order that Nissan had lots of disclaimers about the quick charge port, that an international standard hadn't been adopted, things might change, there was no guarantee there would ever be any charger that could use it, etc. I can't find those disclaimers now, but I expect that I agreed to them and Nissan saved a copy.

 

[mark13]

I wonder how much that ChAdEmOe weighs including all the heavy duty wiring...Does it weigh more then the 700 X $1.00 bills I could of put in the glove box but instead ordered the ChAdEmOe :lol:

 

[Herm]

it would be cool if a couple of hundred Leafs with the L3 port showed up at the SAE meeting discussing such issues.. a hands on demonstration

 

[tps]

4) SAE, dominated by US manufactures who HAVE BUILT NO BEV vehicles that can DC charge, insist on a SAE standard other than CHAdeMO, just in case they get around to building them someday.

+1