The unofficial Leaf dropout thread

[LEAFfan]

The Mitsubishi is "air cooled"... similar to Honda's Fit EV. Sorry, no liquid.

Yep, they both use Toshiba's new titanate battery chemistry which according to Toshiba can withstand ambient temps up to 122F without any liquid cooling and no degradation.

 

[WetEV]

.

Good grief, I don't need you to run numbers. Especially since I disagree with you on the cost comparison and have no need to justify my purchase.

Sir Danny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZwuTo7zKM8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DANandNAN]

grommet,
is that right? Thanks for the correction.

Again with the "complexity" and maintenance expense . The Volt has no scheduled/recommended service for most folks for 2 years.

I am not talking about scheduled maintenance, I am talking about the fact that there in a gasoline engine which has many parts that can potentially break or malfunction over time.

First, I'm not trying to force anyone into any car. I'm pointing out what too many are forgetting and ignoring and spreading FUD about. Whatever car someone chooses I don't care, I'm certainly not forcing anyone :lol: But there is a lot of FUD being spread.

BTW, if you're going to ignore me anyway then what's the point of commenting to me first? It's like a kid screaming "I'm right and I'm not listening anymore!" and running away with their hands over their ears. :lol:

This all got way off topic anyway (and I'm sure it's my fault :roll: )

 

[SanDust]

Let us do the numbers.
...
Long term, a PHEV will cost more than a large battery BEV, and with higher fuel costs, more maintainance costs, would appeal to only a tiny fraction of people.

One of the issues, and there are many, with your analysis is that you can't substitute a BEV for an EREV. To get the utility of an EREV you'd need a BEV and an ICE. Now yes you could get a Prius and a Leaf rather than a Volt but that's not cheaper it's considerably more expensive. The maintenance costs would be higher as well.

Your conclusion that no one will want a PHEV and everyone will want a limited range BEV is belied by the numbers. Nissan is struggling to move Leafs off the lots and the Leaf is being outsold by the Volt and the PIP by something like 7:1. If things were as you are claiming them to be this simply wouldn't be happening. Your youtube video is pretty spot on here but not so applicable to him. I hope that the folks at Nissan aren't drinking the same Koolaid you are because, if you are, the Leaf is most likely doomed.

 

[WetEV]

Let us do the numbers.
...
Long term, a PHEV will cost more than a large battery BEV, and with higher fuel costs, more maintainance costs, would appeal to only a tiny fraction of people.

One of the issues, and there are many, with your analysis is that you can't substitute a BEV for an EREV. To get the utility of an EREV you'd need a BEV and an ICE. Now yes you could get a Prius and a Leaf rather than a Volt but that's not cheaper it's considerably more expensive. The maintenance costs would be higher as well.

Your conclusion that no one will want a PHEV and everyone will want a limited range BEV is belied by the numbers. Nissan is struggling to move Leafs off the lots and the Leaf is being outsold by the Volt and the PIP by something like 7:1. If things were as you are claiming them to be this simply wouldn't be happening. Your youtube video is pretty spot on here but not so applicable to him. I hope that the folks at Nissan aren't drinking the same Koolaid you are because, if you are, the Leaf is most likely doomed.

A plug in hybrid is a better fit for the economics and technologies right now.

Perhaps you had best read what I wrote.

Don't confuse what I said about longer term (10 or more years in the future) with what I said about now. With battery prices dropping 10% to 15% a year, and gasoline prices rising (in general) the economics will change radically.

 

[dandrewk]

How many Leafs have caught fire sitting in a garage?

Just askin'....

:twisted:

 

[DANandNAN]

How many Leafs have caught fire sitting in a garage?

Just askin'....

:twisted:

Very unfortunate for those folks, but not really pertinent to the discussion either.

 

[gkalexdc]

12k miles and 16 month of ownership have been great. Actually first 6 month were the best when Leaf was still a novelty. I was quite the opposite with the range anxiety which was absent initially, it developed much later as I was learning that to get the most out of it in my area I have drive it like there is an egg under th Perhaps, I overreacted, but after putting the numbers together I realized that I can jump the ship with very minimal loss. So I traded in my Leaf for a Volt and this time I went with 2 year lease deal because I have a feeling we'll see more options and better technology by then. The car suits me better in every aspect and it has better utility overall.

Well, back on subject, I bailed too. I felt the same as IBELEAF. At first it was FUN. Then the worrying about how I was treating the battery. Then, the degradation stories. Then I worried about being an EDSEL owner. I was trying the leaf to get my feet wet in the EV learning curve , and I learned extensively, mostly from everyone on here. THEN.....I got a call from my sister, and she lives in IOWA. Its cooler there, I had a FULL FIVE STAR 1 year report, and decided since Im buying a Tesla S anyhow, that now, after a year, (JUNE 01) It was time to cut losses.
I have two other ICEs. We all are learning. I feel the LEAF is primitive, IMO, and that we are the first wave of explorers. EVs are here to stay, and LEAF owners proved the faults and strengths. But, back on subject would be very interesting to see on this thread. WHO else has a story ? What happened, and how did your ownership experience pan out? My sister is doing GREAT with the car. They have no loss that I know of yet. AND THEY LOVE THE LEAF !!!! It was worth taking the loss to my family anyway. I wouldnt have sold it to a family member if I thought it was a bad car. FYI I sold it for 23,250 SHIPPED to Iowa.... We went to Carmax and got a quote for 23,000 in JUNE. So, who else has bailed, and why.

 

[Valdemar]

I wouldnt have sold it to a family member if I thought it was a bad car. FYI I sold it for 23,250 SHIPPED to Iowa....

So, considering the fed. tax rebate and sales taxes paid your cost was above 6k for about 1 year of Leaf ownership? Ouch.

 

[Stoaty]

I can understand people in hot areas of Arizona and Texas (or other hot areas) bailing, but remain mystified why anyone in the cool areas of the Pacific Northwest would sell. The Leaf will probably have a very long and happy life there.

 

[Valdemar]

I can understand people in hot areas of Arizona and Texas (or other hot areas) bailing, but remain mystified why anyone in the cool areas of the Pacific Northwest would sell. The Leaf will probably have a very long and happy life there.

+1. Over time depreciation will level off, and the benefits of not needing to buy gas will be more obvious.

 

[edatoakrun]

="gkalexdc"..since Im buying a Tesla S anyhow, that now, after a year, (JUNE 01) It was time to cut losses...I sold it for 23,250 ...

You're not going to get off anywhere near that easy, in terms of depreciation, if you decide to sell the S, or almost any other new vehicle, for that matter, after one year.

 

[gkalexdc]

="gkalexdc"..since Im buying a Tesla S anyhow, that now, after a year, (JUNE 01) It was time to cut losses...I sold it for 23,250 ...

You're not going to get off anywhere near that easy, in terms of depreciation, if you decide to sell the S, or almost any other new vehicle, for that matter, after one year.

You are right !! Cars are depreciating assets !!! We love em though... Im gonna LOVE the S. Until I get tired of it, then it will be........SOLD !!! and I will buy another......Depreciating asset !! Now. Back On TRAC. Who else has a story about bailing on their LEAF, and the details of it.

 

[IBELEAF]

Btw current trade value of leaf is 23-24k. I got upper limit for it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

$23k at Carmax

 

[abasile]

$23k at Carmax

Tony, did you sell your 2011 LEAF?

 

[TonyWilliams]

$23k at Carmax

Tony, did you sell your 2011 LEAF?

Yep.

 

[Herm]

Yep.

I wonder if the appraiser even noticed the missing battery bar..

 

[DaveEV]

Yep.

I wonder if the appraiser even noticed the missing battery bar..

Tony's car didn't have any missing bars.

$23k isn't bad considering that it was a no-hassle trade and that Tony's out-the-door price wasn't much more than that new. Though pro-rating the CA rebate will give decrease the price a bit more...

 

[edatoakrun]

Yep.

I wonder if the appraiser even noticed the missing battery bar..

Tony's car didn't have any missing bars.

$23k isn't bad considering that it was a no-hassle trade and that Tony's out-the-door price wasn't much more than that new. Though pro-rating the CA rebate will give decrease the price a bit more...

Looks like Tony scored. He got to drive this LEAF for over a year, and what, 25k (?) miles, for only a few thousand bucks.

I wonder how the next buyer will do, if all they know when they purchase from Carmax, is that it still has all 12 capacity bars.

After they do lose a bar, search the VIN, find Tony's reports of his extreme battery use, and his comments about his LEAFs battery use history and gid reports of capacity loss, we may begin to see news reports of "LEAFs With Failing Batteries" being sold to unwary buyers.