Poll : $100 a month replacement offer

[mcirish]

I just leased my Leaf in November 2012 (3 years/12,000 per year). Not sure what this "replacement offer" is all about. Links? From what I have heard about the battery life I am afraid to ask since I will probably be affected somewhat.

 

[davewill]

I just leased my Leaf in November 2012 (3 years/12,000 per year). Not sure what this "replacement offer" is all about. Links? From what I have heard about the battery life I am afraid to ask since I will probably be affected somewhat.

Here's the info:http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331

Hi everyone. Brian Brockman from Nissan Communications again.

I know many here on the forum have been looking for information on LEAF battery replacement since Andy Palmer committed that to you. Below is the announcement of our battery replacement program, which was developed with feedback that Nissan collected from owners like you and other prospective LEAF customers.

In a nutshell, what we heard was that some owners wanted the option to update their pack technology and/or wanted continued assurance from Nissan on battery capacity like we offer with a new LEAF. And, of course, to offer this at a reasonable price.

The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

I know there will be questions, and I (along with others from Nissan) will do our best to answer them here. As always, we welcome your feedback.

Thank you.

--


NISSAN ANNOUNCES BATTERY REPLACEMENT PROGRAM FOR LEAF

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (June 20, 2013) – Nissan, the world leader in zero-emission vehicles, today announced plans to offer a battery replacement program for U.S. LEAF customers who wish to replace their original equipment, lithium-ion battery pack.

The program, which will begin during the first half of 2014, will work in tandem with the Nissan standard battery warranty for LEAF – which includes industry-leading five-year, 60,000 mile coverage against battery capacity loss (below approximately 70%) and 8 years/100,000 miles against defects – to provide multiple layers of assurance for electric vehicle owners.

Erik Gottfried, Nissan’s director of Electric Vehicle Sales and Marketing, said: “Nissan anticipates that the great majority of our current LEAF drivers will never need this battery replacement option. However, this program is yet another example of Nissan’s commitment to deliver peace of mind for our continually growing community of LEAF drivers.”
Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

“Technology is evolving and battery prices are projected to decline as EVs become increasingly mainstream,” said Gottfried. “Therefore, this new battery program today affords more flexibility for the future so that customers can both upgrade to the latest available technology for their LEAF and enjoy more predictable vehicle operating costs.”
The battery replacement option is being modeled after aspects of both competitor and Nissan Europe battery leasing programs. The majority of the EVs bought in Europe involve battery leasing separate from the vehicle.

All LEAF batteries installed under this program will enjoy coverage similar to the terms of standard battery coverage under the Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty and be assured to maintain at least 9 bars capacity, or approximately 70 percent and protection from defects in materials or workmanship for the time they own their LEAF and remain in the battery program. If necessary, Nissan will replace the battery with a new or remanufactured battery to restore capacity at or above a minimum of 9 bars, much like the existing expanded battery capacity warranty.

The Nissan LEAF battery replacement program pricing is consistent with Europe and will be approximately $100 per month. The replacement program will officially launch during the first half of 2014, and all Nissan LEAF vehicles will be eligible. It will be administered by Nissan Motor Acceptance Corporation.

“The battery replacement option will provide the peace of mind that customers have an economical option should they choose to replace the battery for whatever reason,” says Gottfried.

Nissan will announce additional details of the battery replacement program later this year, including other global markets.

 

[braineo]

how many chicken little's bought a Leaf? We may never need to lease this battery, but glad that there is a choice given that will extend the life of my Leaf.

Scenarios ( and yes I charge my battery to 100% on a daily basis and drive over 15k per year)

1. I expect to have a warranty replacement of my battery by year 5 or by year 8 have Nissan replace a failed module under warranty - but only if it degrades below the 70% (until year 5), thus no $100 per month lease.

2. If after year 8 (in the event my battery is the original) Nissan offers an extended battery, say 40kw, I would consider to pay the 100/mo. battery lease if the car still meets my needs, if not it will be a hand me down to a grandkid.

3. I bought my 2011 Leaf SL car with an after tax credit cost of $16.5K which with my Gas savings of about $3k per year will be like driving free after 5 years. I've never driven a car that had paid for itself in my life.

4. Now my wife wants to drive her own Leaf. Waiting for a alternative that can eliminate my two 2002 ICE cars that still work fine. at this point my only possible alternative is a TESLA model X when the supercharger network is build by 2015, thus allowing long distance driving to vacation destinations and providing somewhat of a payback in savings. Funny how electric cars behave economically, themore you drive the faster the payback, thus 8 trips of about 500 miles each way mimics a daily 50 mile commute. I'd rather not use my vacation cash to fill a gas car.

5. These scenarios assume a constant gas price of about $3 bucks and change. What if gas jumps over $5 bucks due to a middle east conflict that could start any day now?

Anyway going back to the Leaf $100 a month battery lease scheme, we might never have to use it, so why all this fuzz. Only explanation is that your current Leaf is marginally able to drive the miles you need now and you are in a place that degrades the battery much faster than anticipated, thus you must decide when is the best time to get rid of your Leaf or pay the price. $1,200 a year from the 1st replacement date doesn't seem onerous at all considering the bath you will realize when disposing your used Leaf. If I were in that situation I would definitely speed the battery pack degradation to get a free pack under warranty - thus charge it to 100% daily and park it in the sun.

 

[Stoaty]

1. I expect to have a warranty replacement of my battery by year 5 or 8 - but only if it degrades below the 70%, thus no $100 per month lease.

Not sure what you mean here. Battery warranty is only good for 5 years/60,000 miles, whichever comes first. Between 5 and 8 years Nissan will replace a failed module under warranty, no coverage for gradual loss of capacity then.

 

[braineo]

Thanks for the correction - updated post. That is why I love MNL forum...

1. I expect to have a warranty replacement of my battery by year 5 or 8 - but only if it degrades below the 70%, thus no $100 per month lease.

Not sure what you mean here. Battery warranty is only good for 5 years/60,000 miles, whichever comes first. Between 5 and 8 years Nissan will replace a failed module under warranty, no coverage for gradual loss of capacity then.

 

[dvlax40]

This is why i wish people used linux more... the prices we pay for being a bleeding edge adopter!! at least you become adept at formatting and reinstalling new distros...

lol in all fairness, i empathize with people who purchased it, but its not like batteries were so new we didn't know they go bad. hell i have a full drawer of "rechargeable" batteries that have died over the years, I didnt expect different from my car.

I think the best bet is to hold out for new better battery technology coupled with economies of scale tipping in the favor of a 2-3K dollar battery replacement every 10 years. i could live with that cost per month ($25)

 

[klapauzius]

This is why i wish people used linux more... the prices we pay for being a bleeding edge adopter!! at least you become adept at formatting and reinstalling new distros...

lol in all fairness, i empathize with people who purchased it, but its not like batteries were so new we didn't know they go bad. hell i have a full drawer of "rechargeable" batteries that have died over the years, I didnt expect different from my car.

I think the best bet is to hold out for new better battery technology coupled with economies of scale tipping in the favor of a 2-3K dollar battery replacement every 10 years. i could live with that cost per month ($25)

Linux is free. . .

As for the natteries:
Yes, I also expeeienced degradation. Since I dont throw my gadgets away when the battery dies, I buy something called "replacement" battery and with that they are as good as new. Naive to assume such bleeding edge principles would apply to the Leaf.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Interesting thoughts being thrown around here. I'm not sure what to make of it all.

I'm leasing, but I had fully intended to buy out the lease in 2015. This recent news makes me a little wary of that option, but it's still looking better than the alternative - continually leasing the car. Plus, who knows what the options and prices will be two years from now. It's certainly not like technology is sitting still.

Here's something to chew on - it seems likely that there will be a significant improvement in batteries in 3-4 years. On the order of 3x the energy for the same size/weight/price. Recent news from GM (who claim to have a prototype on the road today), Tesla (who claim the 3rd generation is 3-4 years out) and even Nissan by way of Infiniti (who delayed the LE from 2015, hinting that a new battery could appear 12-18 months later) all supports this possibility.

 

[CMYK4Life]

This is exactly why I leased my Leaf. The tech is too new there are too many unknowns.

$200 a month (or less) to lease the car, $25 a month in electricty. 24 months - back to the dealer - lease a new one.

Let someone else take the hit, worry about the resale, worry about the battery.

 

[dvlax40]

This is why i wish people used linux more... the prices we pay for being a bleeding edge adopter!! at least you become adept at formatting and reinstalling new distros...

lol in all fairness, i empathize with people who purchased it, but its not like batteries were so new we didn't know they go bad. hell i have a full drawer of "rechargeable" batteries that have died over the years, I didnt expect different from my car.

I think the best bet is to hold out for new better battery technology coupled with economies of scale tipping in the favor of a 2-3K dollar battery replacement every 10 years. i could live with that cost per month ($25)

Linux is free. . .

As for the natteries:
Yes, I also expeeienced degradation. Since I dont throw my gadgets away when the battery dies, I buy something called "replacement" battery and with that they are as good as new. Naive to assume such bleeding edge principles would apply to the Leaf.

i agree man, its why they need a buy out option on the battery. or when they sell the car knock 10k off the price

 

[fastmaxxcooper]

Since I'm leasing I don't have a dog in this fight, but was toying with the idea of buying it out at the end of the lease depending on the outcome of this, and this news has pretty much wiped out any chance of that. The Leaf has been an interesting experience but it cost me dearly because I was an early adopter. Frankly an inexpensive gas car like a mazda 3 is starting to look pretty appealing, and let others carry the EV banner.

Same here. its interesting that the people that were most interested in EVs gets the worst deal. I should have waited, so I'd pay a third what I'm paying now and not get such a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing!

And its fine Nissan to put an incentive on the leftovers, but then to lower the trade in and private sale values and really screw over the early adopters really is a bad deal!

 

[WetEV]

its interesting that the people that were most interested in EVs gets the worst deal.

Usual case. I've got an 8080 S-100 computer system than cost ten times more in 1978 dollars than a nice computer does today. Not to mention heavy, bulky and noisy. And I got a fairly good deal at the time. I could have paid 50% more for the same system if I bought it a year earlier. Yes, I put almost $3000 into a computer that had 40k bytes of RAM.

Probably the same thing with the Leaf. I waited a year, and bought for under MSRP.

 

[dustinb]

I'm happy with the program Nissan has brought forward. I don't see using it for many years though. So happy with my 2012 Leaf, even if it went down to 50% capacity the car would still function as my daily driver. I'd definitely buy another Leaf.

 

[SSS]

I've been offline for a couple of months, so I missed the news about this. But 2 weeks ago, my Nissan Dealer told me I should sign up for the free 12 rental days per year. That was the first I'd heard of any free rentals for Leaf owners. They said nothing about any battery deal, just a free rental program. Wow! 12 free days each year? Really? I've already tested the "free" rental and got a Pathfinder for a quick trip to Grand Canyon. It was free and nothing changed with my lease. Nice extension of my original lease.

I really like this idea, as I live about 150 miles from most SoCal points of interest, with no DC chargers within the first 100 miles. So my Leaf is strictly a local use ride.

Has the free rental program been discussed under a different heading?

 

[KJD]

What do you think about the new about $100 a month battery replacement offer ?

I think it is dead on arrival. Try again Nissan.

 

[mwalsh]

Has the free rental program been discussed under a different heading?

Yes. But I'm pretty sure we've also talked about the program being discontinued. So I'm a bit surprised it was just offered to you?

 

[scottf200]

I've been offline for a couple of months, so I missed the news about this. But 2 weeks ago, my Nissan Dealer told me I should sign up for the free 12 rental days per year. That was the first I'd heard of any free rentals for Leaf owners. They said nothing about any battery deal, just a free rental program. Wow! 12 free days each year? Really? I've already tested the "free" rental and got a Pathfinder for a quick trip to Grand Canyon. It was free and nothing changed with my lease. Nice extension of my original lease.

I really like this idea, as I live about 150 miles from most SoCal points of interest, with no DC chargers within the first 100 miles. So my Leaf is strictly a local use ride.

Has the free rental program been discussed under a different heading?

Sounds similar to the deal like Fiat and BMW are providing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/bmw-has-2-ways-to-extend-the-range-of-its-new-electric-car-2013-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

<snip> And for those who want to take a road trip? BMW has a second solution: Drive a different car.
Through the "Add-on Mobility" plan, i3 owners have "flexible access" to gas-powered BMW vehicles, including the X3 SUV, "with a specific amount of usage days."
BMW isn't the first to offer a rental program. Owners of the electric Fiat 500e get 12 free days of rentals from Enterprise every year, for when they want to take a road trip.

 

[AndyH]

It looks like Daimler's Smart EV has three things going for it that the Leaf doesn't yet have - hot weather cells with 'ceramic' separators, an active TMS (with an additional option of refrigerated cooling), and a battery lease program (which appears to be the choice for about 80% of owners).

Could the success of Smart's battery leasing program be influencing Nissan? Or has behind the scenes 'chatter' from Nissan influenced Daimler?

 

[TimLee]

Could the success of Smart's battery leasing program be influencing Nissan? Or has behind the scenes 'chatter' from Nissan influenced Daimler?

Could be some of both.
But in general I think most of the OEMs are just recognizing that the EV battery, although markedly improved from the technology available 10 years ago, is still a very costly item, probably in the $500 per kWh range. And that the unavoidable capacity degradation from time and heat will mean most EVs with modest size batteries (such as 24 kWh in the LEAF) will need replacement in 8 years or less. They recognize the replacement cost is a huge negative for the current generation EVs. Only way to attempt to mitigate that is to follow the cell phone company model and spread the cost out to a monthly cost that people might be willing to accept, and refuse to acknowledge the real cost of the batteries.
There is some advantage to that approach for the vehicle owners if the battery prices continue to decline.

 

[kubel]

I crunched the numbers to see how the battery lease would impact the long-term cost of the car (compared to a comparable gas car, a Focus SE hatchback with automatic transmission, equipped with 201A tech package and winter weather packages). This is assuming there's no mileage limit (fuel/electricity cost is based around 17,000 miles per year, and assumes cost doesn't change in the future). It's also assuming you qualify for both the $7500 tax credit for the LEAF, and A-Plan discount and $2000 cash back for the Focus SE.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AisPPmAqXG45dGMxWGg3eFBuRkdtZnVxWWY3REdtUHc&usp=sharing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Problem is the battery lease is only good for 12,000 miles per year... It might work for me if they removed the mileage restriction.