Plug In America LEAF Battery Survey

[tomsax]

Let's just suppose I have kept a spreadsheet and can give fairly accurate answers. Do you want that data, or do you really want the CarWings data so that it correlates with everyone else's readings?

I'd like the best data available. For example, I have a log of every charge and drive segment since we purchased our Leaf in September, 2011. Every record has start and end gids since we got our SOC meter in December. If anyone else keeps that level of records, I'd like to get it, especially for high mileage cars.

I could also add a couple of fields for wall-to-wheels data: miles and kWh recorded. My data is good, except for a few public charging sessions where I didn't get a kWh number of the charge, so have to approximate. Still, I expect my numbers are within a percent or two.

Anyway, let me know what you have and we can figure out the best way to add it to the data set.

 

[91040]

Tom- How often do you want updates?

 

[tomsax]

Tom- How often do you want updates?

Every six months or whenever you lose (or gain) a capacity bar.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Not to deviate much from this tooic, it is intersting that the Kent, WA Leaf that has 56k miles has been charged twice 100% daily and has 12 bars, which corroborates what IELECTRIC has been saying. Atleast under cooler climates charging to 100% daily should not be discouraged.

It is unfortunate that the comments from the owner of that car says he would not consider a Nissan again. Assuming he/she had very little maintainence issues or other repairs, 56k miles in a short amount of time would have a saved a bundle on not paying for gas. I would think trading it in for a 2013 would he still come out ahead financially ? Is this TaylorSF ?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Not to deviate much from this tooic, it is intersting that the Kent, WA Leaf that has 56k miles has been charged twice 100% daily and has 12 bars, which corroborates what IELECTRIC has been saying. Atleast under cooler climates charging to 100% daily should not be discouraged.

It is unfortunate that the comments from the owner of that car says he would not consider a Nissan again. Assuming he/she had very little maintainence issues or other repairs, 56k miles in a short amount of time would have a saved a bundle on not paying for gas. I would think trading it in for a 2013 would he still come out ahead financially ? Is this TaylorSF ?

it is he and I dont think he is completely against another LEAF. now, he might be against another LEAF like the one he has because of the lack of TMS, piss poor heating, etc. and the fact the price aint right.

My thoughts on the price have fluctuated a bunch but now I am convinced that the new 2013 SL should go for no more than $35,000 with the SV being 32,000 and the S being 29,999 and those prices are on the high side but its hard to ignore the savings over a regular vehicle. but I wouldnt buy a LEAF until they get their battery management affairs in order. I do have degradation but well within what I was expecting but the real detriment is what we have to put up with in Winter to drive the LEAF. Its either freeze or deal with a 20-25 mile loss in range.

now, i am used to freezing i guess. when i was younger, i lived in Riverside CA and worked in Compton. I rode a bike, primarily a Yamaha 400 and a Kawasaki 650. I did it because i loved riding in Summer but also because back then there was no helmet law and lane spliting was legal. lane spliting means i could ride between two cars in adjacent lanes. Doing this means I only slowed down during rush hour but never really stopped (unlike the cars) and it saved me a good 20-30 (DOWN to 75 minutes ) minutes on my afternoon commute every day. but that also meant riding during the winter time and i literally froze to death (well as much as one can with temps in the 50's... :roll: ) and i hated it. but i did it mostly to save money on gas and time on my commute.

but that is what i was willing to do. i had a car which i would take on average of 1-2 times a month or when it rained (on average of 1-2 times a year)

to me this EV thing is just another one of those "what I am willing to do" things. no more no less.

 

[bowthom]

Tom,
I have spreadsheets of every month (21) of ownership, except the first two, showing carwings data correlated to blink data and my own. I do not own a GID meter though. I have been sending them to blink until recently when they stopped asking.

Do you want me to send them to you? (it's a lot of data)

 

[tomsax]

Tom,
I have spreadsheets of every month (21) of ownership, except the first two, showing carwings data correlated to blink data and my own. I do not own a GID meter though. I have been sending them to blink until recently when they stopped asking.

Do you want me to send them to you? (it's a lot of data)

What I'm really looking for is getting a history of gids over time and miles.

It would also be good to get more reliable driving efficiency numbers. Do you measure charging energy from a wall meter? Our Blink station seems to vary pretty significantly with our wall meter, but I haven't analyzed that yet. It was only recently that I noticed that the Blink station tells you a kWh number, but it disappears when you unplug. So, I've only been recording it recently.

 

[davewill]

... It was only recently that I noticed that the Blink station tells you a kWh number, but it disappears when you unplug. So, I've only been recording it recently.

You can retrieve charge history on the Blink dashboard. Go to https://www.blinknetwork.com, login, and Choose "My Chargers->Manage->Usage Stats". You can download data in tabular form (CSV) as far back as you like. As far as accuracy, there is a small overhead for the Blink hardware that isn't measured by the Blink, but I don't see that as an issue for this purpose. You really want to know what went INTO the LEAF. Also, unless you have a special setup, wouldn't there be other power usage lumped into your wall meter?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Does it provide individual charging stats like start time stop time, and charge transfered? I was looking for that earlier and could not find it

 

[tomsax]

You can retrieve charge history on the Blink dashboard. Go to https://www.blinknetwork.com, login, and Choose "My Chargers->Manage->Usage Stats". You can download data in tabular form (CSV) as far back as you like.

That's a good theory, except when the logging doesn't work, or the station disappears from your account. I'm working on getting it back.

As far as accuracy, there is a small overhead for the Blink hardware that isn't measured by the Blink, but I don't see that as an issue for this purpose. You really want to know what went INTO the LEAF.

That would depend on the purpose. If you want to know cost to drive, then power consumed by the station is part of the cost of driving. I would certainly hope it's not a large factor. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about when the wall meter says 10.5 kWh and the Blink says 11.4 kWh. I really don't think the Blink puts more energy into the Leaf than it takes out of the wall. As another data point, our Roadster tells us how much energy it took from the Clipper Creek charging station and that agrees very well with the wall meter.

Also, unless you have a special setup, wouldn't there be other power usage lumped into your wall meter?

I have a dedicated meter installed for each of our charging stations. There are no other loads on those meters.

 

[davewill]

...I'm talking about when the wall meter says 10.5 kWh and the Blink says 11.4 kWh. I really don't think the Blink puts more energy into the Leaf than it takes out of the wall. As another data point, our Roadster tells us how much energy it took from the Clipper Creek charging station and that agrees very well with the wall meter. ...

Hmmm. The Blink has a utility grade meter integrated into it. There's no reason why it should be inaccurate. I'd expect any differences to be on the order of 1% not what you describe. I've got a separate meter as well, but it's a utility meter and difficult to read that precisely, but I think I'll I'll make the effort. Personally, I'd complain to Blink if I saw a discrepancy that big.

P.S. Here's the integrated meter:

http://www.sagemcom.com/EN/products/energy/advanced-metering/electronic-meters/cx-1000-3-single-phase-bs-meter-for-household-applications.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tomsax]

This is the meter we use to measure our EV energy use:

http://www.hialeahmeter.com/index.php/products/remanufactured-meters/single-phase-watt-hour-meters/ez-read/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Does it provide individual charging stats like start time stop time, and charge transfered? I was looking for that earlier and could not find it

Yes, the Blink provides plug-in / un-plug time along with the start/end times the car actually draws power along with the amount of energy drawn during that time.

For example, I can see that the following for a recent charge event:

11/24 6:58pm: Plugged in
11/24 6:58pm-6:58pm - Car pulled 0 kWh (LEAF testing EVSE when you first plug in
11/25 4:20am-7:44am - Car pulled 12.713 kWh
11/25 3:32pm-4:03pm - Car pulled 1.95 kWh (I hit timer-override to get a bit more energy for the drive)
11/25 4:03pm - Unplugged - total 14.663 kWh

Only drawback is that all the times are shown in Eastern time instead of your local time.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Does it provide individual charging stats like start time stop time, and charge transfered? I was looking for that earlier and could not find it

Yes, the Blink provides plug-in / un-plug time along with the start/end times the car actually draws power along with the amount of energy drawn during that time.

For example, I can see that the following for a recent charge event:

11/24 6:58pm: Plugged in
11/24 6:58pm-6:58pm - Car pulled 0 kWh (LEAF testing EVSE when you first plug in
11/25 4:20am-7:44am - Car pulled 12.713 kWh
11/25 3:32pm-4:03pm - Car pulled 1.95 kWh (I hit timer-override to get a bit more energy for the drive)
11/25 4:03pm - Unplugged - total 14.663 kWh

Only drawback is that all the times are shown in Eastern time instead of your local time.

ok, checked it and I have nothing so what you are seeing is just when you plug in at home. they used to provide that info for any Blink, including public ones and that is what I am not seeing. is "that" still there?

 

[DaveEV]

ok, checked it and I have nothing so what you are seeing is just when you plug in at home. they used to provide that info for any Blink, including public ones and that is what I am not seeing. is "that" still there?

You are correct, you only get that data for EVSEs that you own. You can get some very limited data on the dashboard (last 5 charging events and kWh drawn) when charging in public.

 

[tbleakne]

I completed your survey. Looking at your results, I see the usual pattern where people in cool climates have little or no noticeable capacity loss, while folks with warmer climates have loss that roughly correlates with distance driven, but accelerates rapidly with temperature.

In my opinion, since the battery's loss is so highly temperature-dependent, it would be very useful to collect data on the micro-climate of each user, including both day and night temperatures. Folks on another thread have done a lot of good work collecting public data at airports, etc., and feeding this into a loss model, but how much time the car spends parked or driving in hot sun is important as well.

My summer temperatures were in the high 90s during the day, high 60s during the night, which is much milder than AZ or TX, but I still have significant loss as measured by my Gid meter. I have been keeping track of my battery temperature bars. 5 bars all day, no loss, but any week in which the car spent a significant fraction of each day at 6 bars was a week of capacity loss.

With the cooler temperatures of Fall, my car's capacity loss has rebounded from -12% to -8.5%. With this improvement I should be able to get through most of next summer before my capacity loss becomes too much for my needs.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok, checked it and I have nothing so what you are seeing is just when you plug in at home. they used to provide that info for any Blink, including public ones and that is what I am not seeing. is "that" still there?

You are correct, you only get that data for EVSEs that you own. You can get some very limited data on the dashboard (last 5 charging events and kWh drawn) when charging in public.

well that sucks. now they "used" to provide that information because I could track how much charge I got from the stations at Sears in Lacey (very nice and centrally located to a lot of shopping/eating options)

 

[davewill]

... well that sucks. now they "used" to provide that information because I could track how much charge I got from the stations at Sears in Lacey (very nice and centrally located to a lot of shopping/eating options)

So complain to Blink. They are obviously still evolving their website. If they get enough requests I'm confident they could put in a better charge history feature.

 

[bowthom]

Tom,
I have spreadsheets of every month (21) of ownership, except the first two, showing carwings data correlated to blink data and my own. I do not own a GID meter though. I have been sending them to blink until recently when they stopped asking.

Do you want me to send them to you? (it's a lot of data)

What I'm really looking for is getting a history of gids over time and miles.

It would also be good to get more reliable driving efficiency numbers. Do you measure charging energy from a wall meter? Our Blink station seems to vary pretty significantly with our wall meter, but I haven't analyzed that yet. It was only recently that I noticed that the Blink station tells you a kWh number, but it disappears when you unplug. So, I've only been recording it recently.

I track using Blink, carwings and a TED 5000.
You can track individual power events on your blink home page. I correlate that to my carwings driving data and charging emails.
It all tracks pretty well except when the blink network goes down or the blink unit crashes and blows all the data out to bit heaven.
In 2011 the blink & network averaged a 45% failure rate. :shock:

 

[bowthom]

...I'm talking about when the wall meter says 10.5 kWh and the Blink says 11.4 kWh. I really don't think the Blink puts more energy into the Leaf than it takes out of the wall. As another data point, our Roadster tells us how much energy it took from the Clipper Creek charging station and that agrees very well with the wall meter. ...

Hmmm. The Blink has a utility grade meter integrated into it. There's no reason why it should be inaccurate. I'd expect any differences to be on the order of 1% not what you describe. I've got a separate meter as well, but it's a utility meter and difficult to read that precisely, but I think I'll I'll make the effort. Personally, I'd complain to Blink if I saw a discrepancy that big.

P.S. Here's the integrated meter:

http://www.sagemcom.com/EN/products/energy/advanced-metering/electronic-meters/cx-1000-3-single-phase-bs-meter-for-household-applications.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not so sure that the blink meter reads it own usage, aren't the current clamps on the leads leading to the contactor?