Considering a 2015 Leaf S

[Drew21]

We only have L1 at home for our 2014 SV.
It adds 5-6% charge per hour.
A neighbor who sold his Leaf and got a Mach-E gave us his L2 charger about two years ago. So far the potential benefits of having L2 at home haven't been worth the expense of setting the garage up to use it so it's sitting in the basement.

 

[jamin594]

The owners manual provides a fairly good description of charging times so the test is more than just charging time. It's about logistics, convenience, just general usage. Things which one discovers through trial and not just theory.

Anyway at this point the dealer refused to allow the test so it's no longer something we're considering. If they should give us a call and agree to an extended test drive then we may consider it once again. Thank you everyone for your input / feedback.

 

[Drew21]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm still confused by some of the issues you're raising.

If we were talking about a first-time EV buyer I would understand, but you already have an EV. You presumably know about the logistics, convenience (or lack thereof), and general usage of an EV via direct personal experience.

Your Tesla has a bigger battery and more range, but the pros and cons of an EV are pretty universal.

If I wasn't 2000 miles away I would be tempted to take a look at this cheap Leaf.

 

[pfiddle]

I stumbled across a low mileage (73K) one for $4,500 + tax out the door which seems like a good deal on this car. I am a Tesla driver and thought I might pick this up for my GF to commute from her job (24 miles round trip) and around town. She has an ICE vehicle she can use for longer drives. We have the ability to charge at home but it would be limited to L1 charging (unless I don't need to charge my Tesla then she could use L2). We've also examined ChargePoint locations and there are several free L2 stations close by. We live in the Denver metro area so temperatures do drop but it's usually not too cold. GIven my experience with my Tesla I see no reason this vehicle couldn't meet her daily driving needs most of the time.

About the car: It's a 2015 Leaf S. It has 11 bars on the battery health. I believe this means it has 85% of its initial capacity available. Meaning roughly 70 miles. It has been upgraded with the fast charging option and include the 6.6kWh charger as well (at least it shows the 6kWh estimate in the charging display). Vehicle is clean, drives good, no problems that I have observed with it. But I am not a Leaf owner so I am not familiar with any issues they may have. It's my understanding the batter is 24kWh in capacity and is a newer generation chemistry from what was used with the 2011 / 2012 model years. Not sure if it has the navigation.

Overall it seems like a solid car which is in great condition. Only problem is neither of us need this vehicle, it would be more of a fun thing (she likes how smooth EVs are). I am trying to get the dealer to let me take it for an overnight test drive (i.e. pick it up today and drop it off on Monday [dealers are closed on Sundays in CO]). The goal of doing so would be to see if the range is sufficient for some of the driving she wants to do, check out the free public charging locations, and see how long it takes to charge overnight at L1 speeds.

What are everyone's thoughts on the price, use case, test drive I wish to perform, and any special things to check or know before making a decision? Would a PPI be wise, especially on an EV which doesn't have nearly as many parts to break?

Any help would be appreciated...trying to make a decision by Monday.

I bought a 2015 for my spouse 14 months ago. Similar circumstances. She now all but refuses to drive anything else. It cost me €9k or about $10k.
Absolutely delighted with it. I may wait another year and replace battery with a 40kWh, as my friend did and then use old Leaf battery as a reserve to charge from the PV Panels and part charge car as needed.
Note - here in S of Ireland even 0⁰C is considered cold in winter.

 

[Joaozinho]

Jump on this without hesitation. I have a 2015 Leaf S with 85k and 10 bars that I bought used in 2020.

Agreed. I have one with 35K and 9 bars (83% SOH) that I bought earlier this year. Level 1 charging is more than sufficient, and I've even switched to using an aftermarket charger at only 8A for increased safety on a 15A circuit.

The key is also having an ICE vehicle; that helps to retain utility even as one loses additional bars. IMO, having an E-bike first was the key to grasping this concept.

 

[hradek]

Jump on this without hesitation. I have a 2015 Leaf S with 85k and 10 bars that I bought used in 2020. I have been delighted with it and, other than regular maintenance, I have changed only the rear shocks and two light bulbs. One of the shocks made a slight ticking noise over small bumps, but still worked fine.

11 bars means the state of health (SOH) of the battery is between 77.3 and 85 percent, excellent for a 9-year-old Leaf. I lost my second bar just recently so my SOH is currently sitting at 76.7% (I use Leaf Spy Pro).

Summer range should be about 70 miles, but fast highway driving kills range very quickly, as does any temperature below 40 °F. I have found my range is cut in half when it is very cold (below 10 °F).

For a 24 mile daily round trip, the L1 charger should easily give a full charge overnight. With an L2 charger, my 24 kWh battery charges fully in under 3 hours. We also have a Kia Niro EV and have had no problems keeping both cars charged with a single L2 charger.

The 2015 Leaf S does not have navigation, but for short trips, who needs it? My favorite feature is the preheating of the cabin. You set your morning departure time time and when you get in the car, it is nice and toasty. Also, this gets rid of any frost or light snow on the windows (never any scraping!). The car must be plugged in overnight for this feature to work.

Buying this car should be a no-brainer. The gas savings alone could pay for the car in only a couple of years.

 

[hradek]

I would wait until you can find something with the 40 kilowatt battery. There is a reason these cars a dropping in price. You still have to pay registration and insurance on a car nearly 10 years old that will nickel and dime you to death.

 

[jamin594]

I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm still confused by some of the issues you're raising.

If we were talking about a first-time EV buyer I would understand, but you already have an EV. You presumably know about the logistics, convenience (or lack thereof), and general usage of an EV via direct personal experience.

In a way she would be a first time EV owner. I have told her the benefits and weaknesses of driving an EV but she needs to experience it herself. Taking it on a three miles test drive near the dealership doesn't cut it. In this situation, being that it's an EV, not only is a test drive about whether she likes the specific car (she does) but also about whether she likes the technology (which is underdetermined). Of course even if we were able to have done the extended test drive she would never know for certain until she drove it for a few months.

Your Tesla has a bigger battery and more range, but the pros and cons of an EV are pretty universal.

Herin lies the problem. We're talking a considerable difference in range. In fact it's not that my Tesla has such long range but rather the Leaf as such a short range. 70 miles, under the most favorable conditions, is limiting. She would want to use the car for more than just commuting back and forth to work. Sometimes she takes her coworker home (or picks them up). Would that be possible? We can mathematically calculate it but we can't know for certain. When does it drop into Turtle mode? What level of range would she be comfortable with. It all looks good on paper but when you're out driving and you see ten miles of range left is she going to worry? Can she go and visit her mom on the other side of town? Technically it has the range, but will she be comfortable with the remaining amount? What if they wanted to grab lunch? We've looked up public charging around her moms place and it's available. But is it going to be convenient? The idea being she would charge while visiting with her mom. But is that practical as the chargers aren't on property, she would have to do some walking. So she could charge after the visit but does she want to even wait 30 minutes for 10 miles of range? Maybe at first but that might get old.

In the end it isn't about whether she would be comfortable with an EV but rather an EV with such short range. If she's just going to use it to drive back and forth to work with the limitation that's all she can do then she's unlikely to want it. One can buy a lot of gas for $4,500. Plus there's the insurance and registration (granted not a lot on this car) but still would it be worth it just to drive back and forth to work? Especially when her ICE vehicle?

Today marks the end of the extended test drive we requested. Instead of writing you this response we could have answered many of these questions and I could be heading to the dealer and writing them a check.

 

[jamin594]

I would wait until you can find something with the 40 kilowatt battery. There is a reason these cars a dropping in price. You still have to pay registration and insurance on a car nearly 10 years old that will nickel and dime you to death.

The larger battery would alleviate a lot of our concerns. But it was the price which led her to even consider buying an EV. At this price it's almost a no brainer (I think she would pay about $3,100 for it after the tax credit). So why not just do it? Well, it's not like buying a TV where if you find it doesn't suit your needs you can stick it in the basement or easily sell it. We have to register it, insure it, find a place to park it, etc.

We could try and sell it but I think doing so would be more difficult for us than the dealer. We'd have to lose money on it. Which would be OK but I don't want to just pull the trigger on it and immediately discover it's not suitable and take that loss. IMO better to do as much research as possible beforehand.

Had the dealer let us take the care as requested they might be selling it today. I've already called on insurance. I've posted here looking for feedback. I've read the owners manual. We've looked up public charging locations. They know I have a Tesla (I was driving it when I first stopped in) so they know I am serious about EVs. This has all been communicated to the dealer. I would think they'd take this as a sign we're serious. Just need one simple extended test drive to possibly seal the deal. But they refused. So, we're no longer interested unless they reach out to us and agree to an extended test drive. Otherwise we may consider a longer range EV...such as a Bolt.

 

[pfiddle]

I would wait until you can find something with the 40 kilowatt battery. There is a reason these cars a dropping in price. You still have to pay registration and insurance on a car nearly 10 years old that will nickel and dime you to death.

Buy a crashed car 40hWh battery. Replace the battery. Double the milage for a few thousand, and use the old battery for storage.

 

[TreacherousPath]

I stumbled across a low mileage (73K) one for $4,500 + tax out the door which seems like a good deal on this car. I am a Tesla driver and thought I might pick this up for my GF to commute from her job (24 miles round trip) and around town. She has an ICE vehicle she can use for longer drives. We have the ability to charge at home but it would be limited to L1 charging (unless I don't need to charge my Tesla then she could use L2). We've also examined ChargePoint locations and there are several free L2 stations close by. We live in the Denver metro area so temperatures do drop but it's usually not too cold. GIven my experience with my Tesla I see no reason this vehicle couldn't meet her daily driving needs most of the time.

About the car: It's a 2015 Leaf S. It has 11 bars on the battery health. I believe this means it has 85% of its initial capacity available. Meaning roughly 70 miles. It has been upgraded with the fast charging option and include the 6.6kWh charger as well (at least it shows the 6kWh estimate in the charging display). Vehicle is clean, drives good, no problems that I have observed with it. But I am not a Leaf owner so I am not familiar with any issues they may have. It's my understanding the batter is 24kWh in capacity and is a newer generation chemistry from what was used with the 2011 / 2012 model years. Not sure if it has the navigation.

Overall it seems like a solid car which is in great condition. Only problem is neither of us need this vehicle, it would be more of a fun thing (she likes how smooth EVs are). I am trying to get the dealer to let me take it for an overnight test drive (i.e. pick it up today and drop it off on Monday [dealers are closed on Sundays in CO]). The goal of doing so would be to see if the range is sufficient for some of the driving she wants to do, check out the free public charging locations, and see how long it takes to charge overnight at L1 speeds.

What are everyone's thoughts on the price, use case, test drive I wish to perform, and any special things to check or know before making a decision? Would a PPI be wise, especially on an EV which doesn't have nearly as many parts to break?

Any help would be appreciated...trying to make a decision by Monday.

Sounds like a great deal. I own a 2015 with 60k miles and I'm on 10 bars. I live just outside of Salt Lake, so just a bit colder than Denver in the winter. You should be totally fine with range. I commute about 20 miles each day, and can usually drive two days between charges in the winter, and easily three in the summer. I've had zero issues with the car. Awesome commuter!

 

[Jamesjeff]

I do not get my 10 year old leaf until tomorrow. Insurance is the biggest issue. The car is only worth less than £5,000 so why are insurance companies making such an issue about repair costs. It will never cost them more than the write off cost. I have part exchanged my 275hp Jaguar and insurance costs for the leaf are much higher.

 

[jamin594]

I do not get my 10 year old leaf until tomorrow. Insurance is the biggest issue. The car is only worth less than £5,000 so why are insurance companies making such an issue about repair costs. It will never cost them more than the write off cost. I have part exchanged my 275hp Jaguar and insurance costs for the leaf are much higher.

Insurance is such a scam. My 2022 Tesla Model S had a purchase cost of $135K and thus my insurance is set accordingly. Except with the price cuts Tesla made last year the 2024 year of that car can be had for around $95K. But my insurance isn't reflecting that reality, they're charging me as if it's still a $135K car.

Then there's my 2011 Outback with 225K miles on the clock. Despite being in really great condition it's probably worth $4K to the insurance company. Subtract out the $500 deductible and the $367 / year I was paying for full coverage was a joke. Especially when I'd be leery about filing a claim if it was ever totaled for fear of them raising my rates or dropping me altogether.

 

[rgs]

We currently have two Leafs in the family, a 2014 S we have had since it was new and a 2013 S we bought in 2015 as an 8,000 mile lease return.

The 2014 has almost 90,000 miles and still shows 12 bars. It has been L3 charged once for about 10 minutes since we owned it. It is normally charged to 100% on an L2 EVSE. We don't charge unless it is below 80%. It is rarely below 40% and almost never below 20%. It has been parked outside since 2015.

We gave the 2013 to our son in 2021 when we leased a new 2020 SV+. He parks outside and charges it on 120 Volts. He occasionally charges it on out L2 EVSE. It doesn't have L3 capability. It now has about 80,000 miles and 11 bars. Our son is rarely unable to charge to 100% on 120 Volts because he usually drives less than 50 miles in a day. He and his partner have a Prius they use for trips, although they are borrowing my stepfather's Honda for a trip this week because the Prius is in the shop.

The 2013 and 2014 have never needed repairs. The only expenses for either car have been tires, 12 volt batteries and other consumables. We're in Oregon, which has a mild climate. We pay an extra $110/year for EV registration. The total registration cost is $214/year. We save $12.50/year because we don't have to pay the state for a smog certificate.

Until I experienced the convenience of charging at home when we got our first Leaf in 2011, I didn't realize how much I dislike gas stations. The only time I have needed to go to a gas station in the last year was when I was getting the Honda ready for our son's trip. We found the public charging infrastructure unacceptable for the SV+, so we replaced it with a used 2018 Tesla in 2022. We're leaving for a 250 mile trip to Victoria later this week. We'll stop for about 20 minutes on the way to charge and will be staying in an Airbnb with an L2 EVSE.

We have been quite happy with our Leafs, although we will never buy another Nissan product given their abandonment of Leaf owners.

A Leaf for $4,500 is a good price. I assume that's after the $4,000 federal tax credit. Treated right and not charged with L3 much, the battery should be good for a while.

 

[Vetts47]

I do not get my 10 year old leaf until tomorrow. Insurance is the biggest issue. The car is only worth less than £5,000 so why are insurance companies making such an issue about repair costs. It will never cost them more than the write off cost. I have part exchanged my 275hp Jaguar and insurance costs for the leaf are much higher.

Why don't you just skip the collision insurance?

 

[jamin594]

A Leaf for $4,500 is a good price. I assume that's after the $4,000 federal tax credit. Treated right and not charged with L3 much, the battery should be good for a while.

It was the selling price, no tax credits applied.

 

[Kd123]

Thanks for posting this, it gives me hope and some options. I have been loyal to my 2015 S with the quick charge option since my purchase 2 years ago. We are fighting now when I tried taking it took far on hilly roads and spent 12 hours of miserable leap frogging to get home from the airport (90 minutes away). I'm a student and had wanted to wait 10 months to look at something newer but my nerves can't handle this anymore. We are breaking up - it's not him, it's me. But estimates are awful and I don't want to put info in just yet and start hearing from every dealership under the sun who 'explains' to me why my car isn't worth anything. (11 bars, just under 80k). this post gives me hope, I hope this car might help someone jump into electric like it did with me.