NIssan Quality, Not Impressed

[abasile]

Now that we have our LEAF, our only beef is the light color of the upholstery since we have two young boys. But we are remedying that by purchasing seat covers. Overall, I think the interior of the LEAF compares quite favorably to that of the Prius. We are very happy with it.

 

[lemketron]

Now that we have our LEAF, our only beef is the light color of the upholstery since we have two young boys. But we are remedying that by purchasing seat covers. Overall, I think the interior of the LEAF compares quite favorably to that of the Prius. We are very happy with it.

I'm also worried about this... and wondering what sort of fabric protection the dealer is going to offer/push when I finally get my car. Has anyone bought/applied (from the dealer or otherwise) any sort of fabric protection? Scotchguard, or anything else, presumably with a guarantee?

One person I asked about this mentioned that the whole "applying chemical protection to the fabric" seemed to be contrary to the whole "green" nature of the car, not to mention possibly being something people may not want to be breathing (like VOCs in paint, I guess). But I'm still curious if anyone has come up with a good solution. I'm not sure about seat covers -- I assume that putting them in the back would be difficult, and putting them in the front would cover the airbags, no?

 

[ERG4ALL]

There is a brand of seat covers that has special stitching on the sides to allow the side air bags to inflate. You can get them at K-mart. They are "Elegant" from Automotive Innovations Inc.". Just be sure to install them on the proper side. There is a driver's side and a passenger's side.

 

[VRob]

With all due respect to Leaf fans, I want to know every little problem that may occur with this car, no matter how trivial. That way I can check it before it becomes an issue or a failure. I want to help this technology succeed so please keep "nit picking" and keep us informed.

Ideally someone will begin a thread with a list of all the things that we should check on our Leafs to prevent failures.

We're all in this together.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I've had no problems. The only "fix" was the software upgrade even though I never had the adverse symptoms that some people did. Everything has worked as advertised.

 

[TEG]

I am a little concerned about the look of the paint quality in some places on my Leaf.
The car has a very smooth finish in most places, but on the rear hatch and along one of the rear quarter panels there is sort of a wrinkled appearance to the paint. I hope it doesn't mean that it didn't bond well with the metal underneath. I am no expert on paint, but this looks like something that might lead to premature oxidation in a few years.

 

[derkraut]

I am a little concerned about the look of the paint quality in some places on my Leaf.
The car has a very smooth finish in most places, but on the rear hatch and along one of the rear quarter panels there is sort of a wrinkled appearance to the paint. I hope it doesn't mean that it didn't bond well with the metal underneath. I am no expert on paint, but this looks like something that might lead to premature oxidation in a few years.

Maybe it was damaged in transit; and they "patched it up". :?:

 

[LEAFer]

I am a little concerned about the look of the paint quality in some places on my Leaf.

Make the dealer aware of it. They also should contact your local regional Nissan Techical Services Manager. (See PM)

 

[TEG]

So I hear this buzzing/vibrating noise on my passenger door at freeway speed. (Had the car for one month.)
I look at the outside of the door and see that the plastic cover along the passenger door window frame is sticking out noticeably:

So I look to see what is holding it on and only find one lose screw. When I look under I see it has strips of double sided sticky tape that have NEVER HAD THE WRAPPING REMOVED so they would never stick to the car. Talk about lax assembly practices. If they rushed something as simple as this who knows what else might be poorly assembled!

These red bits are thin cellphone type material that covers the sticky foam strips, and it is supposed to be removed before the side panel is stuck to the car:

So I peel it off myself and then stick the cover plate back on the door and fasten the one screw again:

The green piece stuck between the two reds seems to be a "grab handle" so you can quickly yank off the cellophane before applying the cover piece to the door frame. It is hard to believe someone skipped that step. It was so easy and quick to do when the screw isn't affixed yet (e.g.: while the car is being built). Very sloppy. They must have really been rushing to try to catch up on backlog. (Note, my car was built before the earthquake...)

 

[kmp647]

Nissan will fix this if this info gets to the factory

At most dealers a technician can file a quality report or a product report that goes to an engineer and is supposed to help them identify and remedy assembly issues like these

 

[daniel]

... It is hard to believe someone skipped that step. It was so easy and quick to do when the screw isn't affixed yet (e.g.: while the car is being built). Very sloppy. ...

Several decades ago there was a report of a common practice in U.S. auto plants. If Nissan is doing the same thing, it could explain it:

Assembly-line workers have specific tasks assigned, which can be as basic as tightening one bolt or several. The assembly line is run at a speed which leaves them no time between units, since the faster it moves, the more cars are built for a given number of worker-hours. The workers have tags which they are instructed to affix to a unit if they do not have time to perform the task. The task is then performed later by someone else who is watching for the tags. But the worker's pay is docked for each tag placed. I.e., each task missed. So the workers do not always place the tags.

The task is extremely simple. Tighten one bolt. Or in your case, strip the backing, apply the tape, insert and tighten the screw. But the assembly line is moving and sometimes the worker cannot keep up.

Quality control requires pro-active intervention: Making sure that the assembly line is not moving too fast, giving the workers incentives to do the job right, and to affix the tag if they do miss a unit. Toyota's legendary quality is not due to some spiritual energy in the air. It's due to a management decision to invest the time and expense, and to develop the necessary relationship with its workers, all towards the end of quality control.

I don't have my Leaf yet. I have no way of knowing if I ever will. They are telling me my car is in L.B., but this is the third car supposedly assigned to me, and I no longer believe them. So I have no experience of the quality of the car. I also have no way of knowing how common your kind of problem is. It could be a fluke, or it could be common. But the above explains how a "very simple" task can be missed. No system is perfect. Even Toyota puts out the occasional lemon.

 

[Glenn]

But the assembly line is moving and sometimes the worker cannot keep up.

This is very common with assembly line jobs, it's certainly not limited to automobile manufacturing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uztA6JCKB4s

Glenn

 

[Herm]

Regarding the fabric, its made from PET plastic, same stuff used for milk gallon jugs and soda bottles.. do you know of anything that will permanently stain that stuff?.. not me.

But just in case, dont give your kids any red Kool-Aid to drink

edit: are there ANY examples of a failure to remove a stain from a Leaf seat?.. probably all you need is some water and a rag.

 

[phaduman]

Bought a leaf this week and going through the board...sorry this is an old thread. Still wanted to share:
I have a 06 sienna and so glad I had the extended warranty on it: leak on transmission transfer case was a 10hr labor, AC noise needing core replacement, steering rack leak needed steering rack replacement. All within 6yr of ownership, and within 60K miles! Now that I am out of warranty, I am so nervous I have owned a toyota.

And I had a '97 Infiniti Q45 for 9+ yrs and put in 150K miles on top of the 32K it had when I had purchased it - only things that went bad were the alternators after 130K miles.

I have visited Japan many times and have experienced their work culture - attention to detail is imbibed into them since childhood I think - otherwise it is impossible to learn such traits only at work. Leaf cars are made in Japan - I would wonder how quality issues like these would have passed their final inspection point before shipping. I hope it was temporary (initial shipment pressures) and have become better in 2012. I do feel like going underside and a few places to check for fitment, lose screws etc.

Wow! I don't know what to say. My '06 Prius doesn't show any issues such as stated in this thread. It's the best car I've ever had--bar none.
Now, I really respect you guys' judgement (Mogur, Evdriver, and others.) Since my car's not expected to arrive until June (or later), I'm back on the fence regarding going thru with this transaction. A couple months back, I was really close to buying another new Prius for my wife, but decided at that time to stick with the Leaf because I really would like to have an all-electric vehicle.
Now, (at least here in southern California) the Prius' are flying off the lots at and above MSRP, due to the increase in gas prices.

"What a feeling Toyota" Toyota quality is superior to Nissan and has been for a long time IMO.

 

[ERG4ALL]

I worked for a while many, many years ago at the GM Ypsilanti Hydromatic Transmission plant. I was operating a 11 station Kingsbury drill press. This machine had a revolving enclosed table on it about 10 or 12 feet in diameter with various drills and reams to put the holes in the main valve body of the automatic transmission.

There were two conveyor lines next to the machine, one was for unfinished parts and the second for the finished parts. I was to take an unfinished part, place it on the fixture, press a button that clamped the part in place and then cycle the machine. I was supposed to take the finish part and occasionally check the holes with a "go - no go" gauge. If the holes were getting tight I was then to go over to a more accurate "pith ball" device that more accurately gave the size of the hole.

I used the "pith ball" device for a couple of times and then the supervisor came over to me and pointed out that if I didn't get all of this done in 10 seconds, a light came on the machine which alerted the supervisor to keep the line moving. Therefore, I was to "get the lead out". Thus, I skipped using the "pith ball" device. I used the go - no go gauge, but fewer times. For those in between I'd just check to see that each location had a hole in it. That worked fine, I didn't get bawled out anymore.

Now when the "go" part of the gauge will not go into the hole without a lot of effort, I called the supervisor over to show that the drills/reams were getting dull. He said to never mind that, but only contact him when the gauge would not go into the hole at all.

All of these 11 steps of drilling and reaming had coolant oil that was flowing over the drill or ream. You can guess what happens when you have a dull tool, it generates a lot more heat while it is in operation. It starts a fire. However, GM had thought of everything. There were two red buttons on top of the operator station that when pressed, would flood the enclosure with CO2 and put out the fire.

My first indication that there was a fire was when a huge ball of orange flame came out along with the finished part. Interestingly enough this happened twice while I worked there (only a couple of months) and I never got bawled out by the supervisor. He just told me to get a broom and sweep the floor to make myself useful while the millwrights repaired the equipment.

For years after that I bought GM vehicles (Oldsmobile, Corvette and Cadillac) and every one had some sort of quality quality problem. I finally gave up and started buying other brands that had far fewer issues. I imagine that over time things have changed, but Toyota is right. The quality has to be built in by the guy in the trenches that can stop or take the time to do the job right.

 

[SanDust]

edit: are there ANY examples of a failure to remove a stain from a Leaf seat?.. probably all you need is some water and a rag.

My wife had a skirt which stained the driver's seat and we haven't been able to get it out. Was a weird thing where the skirt sort of delaminated.

 

[sp4rk]

edit: are there ANY examples of a failure to remove a stain from a Leaf seat?.. probably all you need is some water and a rag.

My wife had a skirt which stained the driver's seat and we haven't been able to get it out. Was a weird thing where the skirt sort of delaminated.

Could you possibly post a photo of the skirt (with your wife wearing it?) ... ooooy ... just so we can tell what kind of fabric it is?

 

[cwerdna]

I worked for a while many, many years ago at the GM Ypsilanti Hydromatic Transmission plant.
...
For years after that I bought GM vehicles (Oldsmobile, Corvette and Cadillac) and every one had some sort of quality quality problem. I finally gave up and started buying other brands that had far fewer issues. I imagine that over time things have changed, but Toyota is right. The quality has to be built in by the guy in the trenches that can stop or take the time to do the job right.

Sounds like you might've been at GM when they really didn't seem to care much about quality and were in denial about it.

You might find http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/403/nummi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; very insightful. I posted my comments at http://priuschat.com/threads/great-story-on-nummi-on-nprs-this-american-life.78530/#post-1097941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's MUCH better listen to it than to read a transcript.

It's very sad. If GM actually saw the light and applied the lessons learned from NUMMI to all their plants much earlier, perhaps they might not have gone bankrupt.

Maybe I should start a thread on MNL about it. I wonder how many people will read it and listen...

It's too bad that phaduman seems to have an gotten a dud Toyota. They seem fairly rare. I know of very few people w/unreliable Toyotas. My parents have owned 3 GM products. We don't buy them anymore. They weren't horrible lemons but were of much worse reliability than our Toyotas and Nissans.

 

[ztanos]

edit: are there ANY examples of a failure to remove a stain from a Leaf seat?.. probably all you need is some water and a rag.

My wife had a skirt which stained the driver's seat and we haven't been able to get it out. Was a weird thing where the skirt sort of delaminated.

Could you possibly post a photo of the skirt (with your wife wearing it?) ... ooooy ... just so we can tell what kind of fabric it is?

I'm betting it was an Indigo jean skirt. I had a pair of Indigo jeans that stained a friends couch. That was a fun conversation.

 

[worldlyone]

We've had our Leaf for a little over a year and when people ask me about it, the first thing I generally say is how impressed I am with how solid and tight it is for being the first model year of a new model. We really did expect to have some rattles or looseness or something along those lines, and we've had nothing to complain about. We've not owned another Nissan product previously, so don't have any experience to go on with their other cars, but we have been very pleased with the quality of the car. And I love that the stuff under the hood looks as clean as the day we took delivery. My 2 cents.