NIssan Quality, Not Impressed

[Skywagon]

Low build quality doesn't surprise me at all. Nissan is trying to sell a sophisticated EV at a very low price and therefore has to minimize cost in every way possible (think an Aveo with a $16,000 battery). Take a look at the "suspension walkaround" on the Edmunds blog. It looks like there was no expense that wasn't spared.

http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2011/03/2011-nissan-leaf-suspension-walkaround.html

Best statement yet... if you all want higher build quality with an advanced Lithium based pack then you will pay more than we did for these cars. In the conversion market a comparable Lithium based pack is in the $14k-$16k range. Add an electric motor, charging system, battery monitor system, etc. and the price just climbs (especially and AC based drive system). A new basic rolling chassis is around $8k-$10k, if you consider a cheap car and what the drive system costs to replace (gas engine, transmission, etc). After the federal rebate I feel we are definitely getting what we paid for (and then some). You cannot compare it to a BMW, Mercedes, Infiniti, Lexus, etc. because it is not that kind of car and we did not pay accordingly.

Did any of you own or drive a first generation Honda Insight? That car was highly coveted and it had even worse carpeting and interior materials. It also had even worse issues than I have seen with the LEAF. I put over 80k miles in one of those cars and it was still a excellent vehicle for the technology, gas mileage, and what I paid. Also, the first generation Prius... that was litered with issues and was an overall crappy car as well (compared to other cars on the market). If you buy into the first of something there are going to be some issues. I feel the LEAF is well above what I have expected with first generation cars in the past.

I have a very early car and I have not seen many issues with it at all... maybe they paid extra attention to the very first cars and I am fortunate.

Call me a "fanboy" if you want but if you all keep bashing the car then you are all helping it not succeed (I look for this to be on Autoblog Green, or one of the other blogs soon... with many bashing comments further hurting the LEAF). I guess go ahead and keep bashing it as mine will be even rarer down the road when I roll over 100,000 miles and keep driving. I have been waiting since the failed GM attempts over 10 years ago (talk about unimpressive build quality...) for another production EV for me to drive daily at a cost I can afford. For what I paid I am happy with my purchase and look forward to many, many gas-free miles.

This is the first of a new shift in the auto industry and it will have it's issues... let me guess, your first smartphone was perfect? Mine was sure far from it.

 

[cdub]

Amen, Skywagon!

 

[EVDRIVER]

I don't think matching a $413K Toyota Yaris build quality is tough, it does not come close. Some stuff is so cheap it is nonsense pound foolish. At the very least the seat fabric and carpet should match that of a $20K car, in fact I would not call what is in the car carpet, it's more like the stuff other car makers put under the carpet for noise, calling it carpet is a reach and the mats are the worst I have seen in any Japanese car. In a year or two we will see how those fabrics wear, my floor mat should be ready for the trash in about 9 months if it keeps unraveling, I feel for those people with kids

 

[EVDRIVER]

My Acura has given me 11 yrs of trouble free miles and counting. Nothing failed so far in that car. I even have the original brake pads. However, this will be my first Nissan and my Leaf is supposed to be due next week. I'm buying the Leaf thinking that It will be similar to my Acura minus the maintenance (oil changes, smog, etc) Now, reading about your experiences so far, I'm on the fence after waiting for the car for almost a year. Would you still have bought the Leaf knowing about these poor quality or would you just wait for the Rav4 EV or others?

Also, anyone know the crash test results of the Leaf yet? I know the Versa had poor ratings.

Acura is very high quality for the price, above infinity IMO. I'm an EV person so I'm trying to deal with Nissan cheapness but I would never buy the new RAV EV, it's a CARB ploy from Toyota, wait for Toyota to make a real EV not a marketing conversion. If you like the LEAF buy it, the LEAF is a bridge EV for me.

 

[Boomer23]

I have to go along with Skywagon on this. No, the LEAF is not a BMW, and it makes no pretense to be. What it does claim to be is the first affordable, mass market electric car. This is new technology, and we're early adopters. The battery costs make the car more expensive than most mass market cars, but it is a mass market car, not a luxury car. Toyota has led the medium priced market for build quality for a reason.

I've had my LEAF for two plus weeks and haven't had any problems. The car is silent, smooth and powerful and chock full of impressive electronic aids that all work well.

I haven't had mine apart, but I haven't found any loose screws or disconnected harnesses, and nothing rattles at all.

I realize that the carpet is crap, but I got the floor mats, which I do with any car I buy, and I'm impressed with the quality of the mats.

We're all here because we're convinced about the benefits of a ground breaking new vehicle. Did any of us think it was an Acura or a BMW underneath? No. Does Toyota make solid cars? Yes, and I don't think that they deserve the rap they got recently. But Nissan is not suddenly Brand X, a made in China knock off, because people found some loose screws.

Come on, people, get a grip.

 

[trentr]

Beats me why people buy regular floormats when they have these for less:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3361

 

[Boomer23]

Beats me why people buy regular floormats when they have these for less:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3361

Mmmmm, sink your toes into that inviting cold rubber. Nice for Fairbanks. Here, not so much.

 

[Herm]

There are two issues here, cheap materials and poor assembly..

Cheap materials such as the carpet, sound system are cost cutting issues, Nissan struggled to bring the car at a comparable (after tax credit) price to other similarly sized and equipped cars.. hopefully they did not skimp on things that are more critical.. as an example the brakes are oversized. Not much we can do about this until people complain.. is unusual carpet wear a warranty item?.. make sure you complain if it becomes an issue, you probably will end up with a free replacement. You can also recarpet the car your self, its not hard to do.

Poor assembly is just that, a rushed assembly job, with probably overworked workers, poor training, poor supervision and poor quality control.. this is shocking for a japanese car. Nissan can fix this instantly and probably save money as a result. Hopefully its just a result of the rush to bring the car to market. I believe the Oppama plant has had some issues and they have been trying to improve that for the past few years.

Here is a document on the "Oppama Challenge", interesting how they are assembling more subsystems in-house and have lower manpower at the same time. Oppama is the low cost leader among the Nissan factories.

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/IREVENT/PRESEN/2008/080228_Oppama_PresentationE.pdf

Probably a good idea to lease, if you buy get the extended warranty.

 

[Herm]

Since I am a Leaf fan boy and a happy Nissan owner for many years..

There are other possibilities here, perhaps EVDRIVER is an unusually picky person, or perhaps he got an atypical early Leaf... no insult intended.

I wonder if they are spending a lot of time at the LA port correcting quality issues?

 

[Herm]

I'm an EV person so I'm trying to deal with Nissan cheapness but I would never buy the new RAV EV, it's a CARB ploy from Toyota, wait for Toyota to make a real EV not a marketing conversion. If you like the LEAF buy it, the LEAF is a bridge EV for me.

Does CARB still have loopholes involving BEVs?..I thought they got rid of those years ago.

So if you had to choose between a $50k RAV BEV and a $50k Escalade.. which one would you choose?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm an EV person so I'm trying to deal with Nissan cheapness but I would never buy the new RAV EV, it's a CARB ploy from Toyota, wait for Toyota to make a real EV not a marketing conversion. If you like the LEAF buy it, the LEAF is a bridge EV for me.

Does CARB still have loopholes involving BEVs?..I thought they got rid of those years ago.

So if you had to choose between a $50k RAV BEV and a $50k Escalade.. which one would you choose?

That's a false choice, I would never consider an Escalade. The new RAV four is a play between Toyota and Tesla to benefit them both, it is a conversion and one that will be heavy, expensive and inefficient and much better if it were a properly made ground up EV. Even the back hangs below the car and is visible. I;ll be interested when Tesla is out of the picture and Toyota does this on their own. Toyota never needed any help form Tesla to do this, that is a flat out laughable joke, it was designed as part of a bigger investment deal to boost Tesla's image with the token partnership and is all part of the NUMI investment cross-partnering campaign. Besides all that clever stuff, the vehicle starts with a heavy car that is not designed to be and EV, like a Focus and that is not the way a modern EV should be made for a variety of reasons.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I have to go along with Skywagon on this. No, the LEAF is not a BMW, and it makes no pretense to be. What it does claim to be is the first affordable, mass market electric car. This is new technology, and we're early adopters. The battery costs make the car more expensive than most mass market cars, but it is a mass market car, not a luxury car. Toyota has led the medium priced market for build quality for a reason.

I've had my LEAF for two plus weeks and haven't had any problems. The car is silent, smooth and powerful and chock full of impressive electronic aids that all work well.

I haven't had mine apart, but I haven't found any loose screws or disconnected harnesses, and nothing rattles at all.

I realize that the carpet is crap, but I got the floor mats, which I do with any car I buy, and I'm impressed with the quality of the mats.

We're all here because we're convinced about the benefits of a ground breaking new vehicle. Did any of us think it was an Acura or a BMW underneath? No. Does Toyota make solid cars? Yes, and I don't think that they deserve the rap they got recently. But Nissan is not suddenly Brand X, a made in China knock off, because people found some loose screws.

Come on, people, get a grip.

I'm not comparing to a BMW, BWM uses good materials in some places as it should for the price but the do have many mechanical issues and Audis are really bad. The argument about the pack costs and being the first EV are poor at best, this is a $33K plus car, even with all the added EV costs and ICE costs subtracted the interior should not be that of a sub $12K car. If Nissan spent $200 more on the carpet and seat material it would be vastly better, even $100 at their cost.

I'm not being picky, I owned a Yaris and it cost like $12K and the quality was superior in EVERY way. I really would like to know if we have the same floor mats, the mats I got from the factory are the worst factory mats I have ever owned. There is poor stitching on the edges and it is coming apart after 900 miles, the material is thin and cheap on the surface. I'm not comparing anything on the LEAF to a premium car, not even a average car, the seats, mats, carpet and other parts are at a level that should not be on a car or EV at this price.

In a year or two when things are rattling which will be more noticeable on an EV and the seat look like hell and floors look all prematurely worn, some will change their opinions. Anyone notice the lines lines developing on the seat bolsters where the airbags show?


When it comes to the build of the EV drive many things seem over built. I can't vouch for the quality as I have not opened up the inverter but came close on the charger, that I will have to wait on. I know Nissan went too cheap on some areas and they could have been smarter, like designing a proper heating system not using on for EV conversions. I'm going to bet the LEAF gets highly improved fabric as well as options and other cosmetic upgrades without a cost increase except for say simulated leather.

I'm simply pointing out that they were too cheap on some things, clearly had bad assembly at this point and they scrimped in stupid places, there are plenty of areas they could have saved cost on metal because they used old ICE parts and they should have put the money where it is visible like fabric and where you can hear it. $100 more in the sound system would improve it to a level any person would say WOW! It seems Nissan got cheap after 2000 and has been using lower quality parts by many reports. Toyota uses decent suppliers and I think still uses Fujitsu and others for audio. Clarion is really crap audio, their junk is what was sold in Pep Boys and they failed and were bought out because it could never compete. Sadly, even most factory radios have a line out but I have not seen any evidence of this yet.

Instead of LEAF trees, sleep timers and useless cruise controls I would gladly have taken a nicer stereo or fabric as a personal choice but scrimping too much on materials is bad marketing. I'll put this on my list of predictions as things Nissan Addresses because of many complaints from the general public.

 

[abasile]

The LEAF will be my first Nissan purchase, and it seems to represent the best, most compelling opportunity to purchase an EV for at least the next couple of years. Other, upcoming EVs will be too expensive (for us) and/or produced in very limited numbers. So I am willing to give Nissan a chance, and I commend them for their pioneering spirit. We can live with some minor build issues, if that proves to be the case with our LEAF. Over the long haul, I think the LEAF will be judged primarily by the longevity of its battery pack and the overall level of maintenance that turns out to be required. Hopefully it will come through with flying colors.

 

[mwalsh]

The LEAF will be my first Nissan purchase, and it seems to represent the best, most compelling opportunity to purchase an EV for at least the next couple of years. Other, upcoming EVs will be too expensive (for us) and/or produced in very limited numbers. So I am willing to give Nissan a chance, and I commend them for their pioneering spirit. We can live with some minor build issues, if that proves to be the case with our LEAF. Over the long haul, I think the LEAF will be judged primarily by the longevity of its battery pack and the overall level of maintenance that turns out to be required. Hopefully it will come through with flying colors.

+100 on everything you said.

Still glad I got the floormats though.

 

[Herm]

Instead of LEAF trees, sleep timers and useless cruise controls I would gladly have taken a nicer stereo or fabric as a personal choice but scrimping too much on materials is bad marketing. I'll put this on my list of predictions as things Nissan Addresses because of many complaints from the general public.

Add NAV to that list, I dont need and I dont want it.. my phone has it and I dont use it.

 

[tailgate1234]

A $500 option for upgraded interior materials, stereo, etc... would be great. Missing or loose bolts/screws, wiring/fuses out of place is unacceptable at any price.

 

[EVDRIVER]

A $500 option for upgraded interior materials, stereo, etc... would be great. Missing or loose bolts/screws, wiring/fuses out of place is unacceptable at any price.

I suspect there will be a better standard interior option and an upgraded material choice. The stereo will likely not change as there was quite a bit of software integration. Missing part are not acceptable, look at the toe kick panel by your foot, they were too cheap to use a nut on the stud thread that holds the panel on like in other cars so they just used a cheap and ugly clip. Saved a penny.

 

[Jimmydreams]

Since I believe that the Leaf is 51% idea, 49% car, I'm happy with what it is and how mine is put together.

I have over 5500 miles. No rattles, so squeeks, etc. I have the optional floor mats, but haven't noticed the original carpet piling or anything. (as an aside, I bought a VERY expensive rug for my living room from a high-end store. It pilled like mad for about 6 months and then stopped. Period. Perfect after that. It happens but doesn't mean the rug is junk). The seats/cloth are holding up just fine.

Expectations for the car are up to the individual. But if we trash Nissan's initial effort because we can't see past the '51% idea' aspect of the car, we delay the upswing of the other manufacturers from jumping on board....ones that we know will produce quality cars. Where is the benefit in that? Short term vision delays long term gain.

I'm willing to give Nissan EVERY benefit of the doubt. I'm happy with my Leaf.

 

[daniel]

I don't have my Leaf yet. My dashboard changed just this morning from Pending to Month of July, after originally being Month of May, then Week of April 22, then Pending again. But some thoughts:

I am willing to accept cheap carpet because I wear shoes when I drive and I don't care about looks. My first car didn't even have carpet, just a metal floor. I am willing to accept cheap audio because my hearing is not good enough to really tell much difference. But I am concerned about the reports of bolts and screws not tightened. If they have cut corners in the quality of appearance items I can accept that for the price. (The cost of batteries is so high that an EV is going to cost a lot more than a comparable-quality stinker, and I'm okay with that.) But cutting cost by speeding up the production line so workers don't have enough time to tighten all the bolts, that concerns me. How long until the bolt not tightened is an axle bolt, or something else that holds a critical part on?

I wish Honda had been the company that decided to be first to market with an EV. My Toyota Prius is an excellent car, as stinkers go. But the best experience I've ever had with a car company was my old 1989 Honda Civic wagon. The dealer was straight up with me from the start, the dealership treated me like a VIP even though I was buying one of the cheapest cars they sell, and I never had a minute's trouble with that car in the 16 years I owned it. Honda made me feel that they really wanted me to be a customer. They treated me with respect. I never would have left Honda if their hybrids had not been so inferior in technology to the Prius.

Nissan has not treated me with respect. This present delay is not their fault, but the secrecy, the lack of information, the customer service line that offered no real information and no service, the poorly designed ordering process, the partnering with AeroVironment and its utter contempt for customers, and now the reports of overly-hasty assembly leaving parts unfastened, are all disturbing.

Still, the Leaf will be a big step up from my Zap Xebra SD, which is my daily driver now. I only drive the Prius when I have to go farther than the Xebra will go, or when the road is snowy or icy.

Daniel

 

[trentr]

they were too cheap to use a nut on the stud thread that holds the panel on like in other cars so they just used a cheap and ugly clip. Saved a penny.

That was actually to reduce the weight of the car, not being cheap. :lol: