NIssan Quality, Not Impressed

[thankyouOB]

there are some quality issues with this post:
NIssan = Nissan
just sayin'
but it is an interesting discussion.

Today I replaced the front speakers on my Leaf including the tweeters in the A pillar so I really had some more time to see the car build up close, I have taken apart almost every car brand on the market as years ago I owned a car audio business and I have done plenty of auto work including building conversions from late model cars. I have never owned a Nissan prior to this and at this point I don't think would buy one again. Just pulling of parts to do the speakers and mount crossovers I found the following:

(5) clips that were not clipped in
Several wire looms not in the proper positions
Various plastic shields and insulation covers placed sloppily
Loose screws in several places
Poorly engineered attachments and really cheap fastening parts
Some parts connected very well


I then decided to inspect the battery for a possible amp connection and in looking in the engine compartment I found a wire hook out of it's attachment and an entire fuse block that was NEVER connected to the car and just hanging there, I hooked it into the proper location. I have to say this car looks slapped together like it was made in America, although I did see many Chinese electrical parts under the dash and it felt more Chinese made than Japanese.

While on the floor I noticed the driver side mats are already unraveling on the top edge at the firewall and will likely need replacing in a year assuming they age at that rate. My carpeting (if you call it carpeting) is pilling up on the drivers left side in big balls like it was years old. Could Nissan have used anything cheaper on this car? Even the seats now have wrinkles from leaning on them a bit when working, really pathetic and cheap. Some have seen the factory speakers but let me assure you the magnets are on par with hearing aids, it's laughable how crappy they are. Now that I have a pair of $500 JL audio separates in the front the sound is a bit better but one can really hear how poor the fidelity of the Clarion head unit shines, so speakers only provide marginal improvement. Overall I think the build quality of the car is far below a Toyota Yaris base model which seems built well in comparison. I think Nissan cut many corners and squeezed pennies to get margin on this car. I suppose if the carpet wears out I can get some more sprayed on, at least it looks like that is how Nissan applies the stuff. It would all be acceptable if MSRP was $25K before rebates. :shock:

Rant over- Step it up Nissan, people are not blind.

 

[Desertstraw]

It would be interesting to hear from people who were lucky enough to drive the EV1 and Toyota RAV4 Electric as to whether they had similar troubles. I seem to remember an EV1 mechanic saying that all he ever had to do was replace the windshield wiper fluid.

This is a discouraging thread for those of us waiting for delivery.

 

[Ready2plugin]

I don't think matching a $413K Toyota Yaris build quality is tough, it does not come close. Some stuff is so cheap it is nonsense pound foolish. At the very least the seat fabric and carpet should match that of a $20K car, in fact I would not call what is in the car carpet, it's more like the stuff other car makers put under the carpet for noise, calling it carpet is a reach and the mats are the worst I have seen in any Japanese car. In a year or two we will see how those fabrics wear, my floor mat should be ready for the trash in about 9 months if it keeps unraveling, I feel for those people with kids

Wow, that was one expensive Yaris at $413k!! Just kidding, I know it was a typo, but seriously, I just finished looking at my carpet and it still looks great after 4 months. I paid up for the mats, and they still look like new...and when comparing it to my '06 Honda civic factory mats, they are made 1000% better. I've only had one problem with my car, a rattle that was caused by a loose screw....I do see a pattern here. I would not rush out at purchase a $1k+ extended warranty, or change from purchase to lease just for that. Most problems (that fit under any warranty) will be discovered in the first 3 years. If you want the extra insurance, put the $1k in a savings account and use it if/or when needed for the car. As for the stereo, maybe I'm not that picky, but it sounds just fine to me. All the extra work and expense of upgrading a few speakers when you cannot change the head unit doesn't sound worth it to me. Any car that I can power from the panels on my roof and never go to a gas station again is worth looking over a few minor imperfections.

 

[sdbonez]

My Acura has given me 11 yrs of trouble free miles and counting. Nothing failed so far in that car. I even have the original brake pads. However, this will be my first Nissan and my Leaf is supposed to be due next week. I'm buying the Leaf thinking that It will be similar to my Acura minus the maintenance (oil changes, smog, etc) Now, reading about your experiences so far, I'm on the fence after waiting for the car for almost a year. Would you still have bought the Leaf knowing about these poor quality or would you just wait for the Rav4 EV or others?

Also, anyone know the crash test results of the Leaf yet? I know the Versa had poor ratings.

Acura is very high quality for the price, above infinity IMO. I'm an EV person so I'm trying to deal with Nissan cheapness but I would never buy the new RAV EV, it's a CARB ploy from Toyota, wait for Toyota to make a real EV not a marketing conversion. If you like the LEAF buy it, the LEAF is a bridge EV for me.

All car makers have issues, though. Despite how much I loved my 2001 Acura CL-S for instance, I didn't hesitate to join the charge with the NHTSA after I dropped 5 transmissions in 60k miles (the first at 17k). It ultimately lead to them recalling 2.1M new CLs/TLs right off the lots and they had no case in court when I sued them later (they refused to lemon it).

Even though I loved that car, it was still the 1st year for a new tranny design which was ultimately completely faulty...and it was the first time that I realized that all the car makers will stumble every once in awhile. (some just more often than others :lol: )

 

[downeykp]

We Americans are a funny lot. We want everything yesterday. We hear of some product that we have to have and want it yesterday. So we fret and write letters and wonder why any company could not deliver that product yesterday. So Nissan comes along and offers a product that many wanted yesterday. Their roll-out was botched, they stumbled badly trying to beat the Volt to the market, (which really isn't a true EV).
At some point in this process, (because of the bad publicity) someone high up at Nissan said, "I do not care how many corners you have to cut, just get those cars delivered". Think the movie "Gung Ho". Again because we wanted our car yesterday.
I am not making excuses for shoddy work but just trying to point out the realities of us as consumers. I also understand the need for California Leaf owners to get their rebates. But the rebates are really not under Nissan's control.


I accept minor issues on first run products as that is fully expected, no problem. I do have issue with foolish marketing choices on fabric and other items. Putting a cruise control in an Ev with sub 100 mile range is a waste of money and has no value other than perception to those that think they need it when in reality they likely don't. The cost of an that system is far higher than decent interior fabric and a better stereo which adds far more value, durability, practicality and resale to the car by a big margin. I showed a Nissan GM the interior of my car as he had not looked at LEAF closely and he laughed and said, that's going to need replacing soon. At the very least someone is going to make a fortune cleaning these cars

 

[tailgate1234]

It would be interesting to hear from people who were lucky enough to drive the EV1 and Toyota RAV4 Electric as to whether they had similar troubles. I seem to remember an EV1 mechanic saying that all he ever had to do was replace the windshield wiper fluid.

This is a discouraging thread for those of us waiting for delivery.

There are a number of RAV4 electrics on the road near me (N. Calif.), which speaks volumes about durability. Strange that there are so many since very few were sold outright. There is a 2002 for sale on Craigs List for $35K.

 

[EVDRIVER]

they were too cheap to use a nut on the stud thread that holds the panel on like in other cars so they just used a cheap and ugly clip. Saved a penny.

That was actually to reduce the weight of the car, not being cheap. :lol:

Plastic nut holds better, looks better, minor point. They should have covered the seat bolts as they are visible and look unfinished, most all cars do when they can be seen.

 

[EVDRIVER]

It would be interesting to hear from people who were lucky enough to drive the EV1 and Toyota RAV4 Electric as to whether they had similar troubles. I seem to remember an EV1 mechanic saying that all he ever had to do was replace the windshield wiper fluid.

This is a discouraging thread for those of us waiting for delivery.

There are a number of RAV4 electrics on the road near me (N. Calif.), which speaks volumes about durability. Strange that there are so many since very few were sold outright. There is a 2002 for sale on Craigs List for $35K.

The Original RAV EV was a very good car and weighed far less.

 

[aries]

A number of you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about car interiors and aftermarket stuff. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts as to what it might cost to replace the carpet on the aftermarket or to re-cover the seats with a different material? I'm sure this varies based on physical location (city/state etc) and of course chosen material... But what I'm asking is for an average quality affter market setup of these items would it be like a $1k job? $5k job, etc.. Rough ballpark kind of thing... Anyone have a thought here? Would any of you contemplate actually doing something like this - does it make sense?

 

[sdbonez]

A number of you seem to be pretty knowledgeable about car interiors and aftermarket stuff. I wonder if anyone has any thoughts as to what it might cost to replace the carpet on the aftermarket or to re-cover the seats with a different material? I'm sure this varies based on physical location (city/state etc) and of course chosen material... But what I'm asking is for an average quality affter market setup of these items would it be like a $1k job? $5k job, etc.. Rough ballpark kind of thing... Anyone have a thought here? Would any of you contemplate actually doing something like this - does it make sense?

Yeah, I hate sitting on water bottles - just haven't had the time.

 

[daniel]

... I just finished looking at my carpet and it still looks great after 4 months. I paid up for the mats, and they still look like new...and when comparing it to my '06 Honda civic factory mats, they are made 1000% better. I've only had one problem with my car, a rattle that was caused by a loose screw....I do see a pattern here. I would not rush out at purchase a $1k+ extended warranty, or change from purchase to lease just for that. Most problems (that fit under any warranty) will be discovered in the first 3 years. If you want the extra insurance, put the $1k in a savings account and use it if/or when needed for the car. As for the stereo, maybe I'm not that picky, but it sounds just fine to me. All the extra work and expense of upgrading a few speakers when you cannot change the head unit doesn't sound worth it to me. Any car that I can power from the panels on my roof and never go to a gas station again is worth looking over a few minor imperfections.

Thanks for posting this. As someone who is still waiting (Pending; Month of May; Week of April 22; Pending; and now Month of July!) I need to read some good experiences about the car. (I did get to drive one, and it was very nice.)

It would be interesting to hear from people who were lucky enough to drive the EV1 and Toyota RAV4 Electric as to whether they had similar troubles. I seem to remember an EV1 mechanic saying that all he ever had to do was replace the windshield wiper fluid.

"Darell the EV Nut" is on this board and also on Prius Chat, and had an EV1 and still drives his Rav4EV (unless he got a Leaf since I last heard from him). He speaks extremely highly of both cars. However, to be fair to Nissan, the EV1 was not a mass-manufactured car. I gather every until was hand assembled. Still, the technology existed more than a decade ago. Nissan is the first company to decide, without being forced by CARB, to mass-produce an affordable EV.

But I've never heard a single complaint about the EV1 from anyone who had one. -- Maybe that's why GM crushed them: They didn't want to spoil their reputation for building junk. If word had gotten out that it was actually possible for an American car company to build a car that was not junk, all their customers would want a car that was not junk. Not that it really makes all that much difference with the government always ready to bail them out.

 

[LEAFfan]

Beats me why people buy regular floormats when they have these for less:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3361

Mmmmm, sink your toes into that inviting cold rubber. Nice for Fairbanks. Here, not so much.

+1!

 

[derkraut]

Beats me why people buy regular floormats when they have these for less:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3361

Mmmmm, sink your toes into that inviting cold rubber. Nice for Fairbanks. Here, not so much.

+1!

If you "sink your toes" into those black rubber mats in PHX in the summer, you'll have "tender toes". :lol: :lol:

 

[Boomer23]

Thanks for posting this. As someone who is still waiting (Pending; Month of May; Week of April 22; Pending; and now Month of July!) I need to read some good experiences about the car. (I did get to drive one, and it was very nice.)

Daniel, if you browse through this board you will read over and over about how people love their LEAFs. Apart from the AC no restart issue, which is affecting very few cars and has been addressed by Nissan, there are almost no quality issues that have been identified. I think that one car has a bad heater, that's about it.

You're hearing about some poor assembly quality that has been found by folks who are taking the covers off certain places in the car. That can't be ignored, but notice that you haven't heard about rattles and squeaks in an otherwise nearly silent car, and you haven't heard about mechanical failures.

I just drove mine to a local party and back and was again impressed with how smooth and silent the car is, how nicely it accelerates and what a good quality feel it gives when you drive it. I'm impressed.

To those of you who are getting nervous as you read about assembly quality issues here, put it in the perspective of the much larger number of owners who are having a great time with their new LEAFs and are EV converts because of the car.

I guess I sound like a fanboy, but after 600 miles in mine, I'm not even slightly worried about quality.

 

[cdub]

This forum is a horrible place to judge the quality of a car. I used to work for a customer service tech support call center... no one ever called in to say "I love your product. Awesome stuff. Goodbye"

They called in when they had issues. But there were thousands and thousands of people who used and loved the product. They never called in.

Same idea here. Calm down people.

 

[davewill]

My take is that this is a concern, but the only action I plan to take is a more thorough inspection than I might otherwise have done. I'll tap and push and pull on some of the interior plastic, and check under the seats and dash, etc. Anything loose or missing I'll have fixed ASAP. Would I rather not feel the need? Sure. Am I annoyed? You bet, this is just sloppy QA, and shouldn't happen... but I knew this car was a 1.0 and I'm determined to make it work.

 

[TRONZ]

The LEAF is our third Nissan and they have all been excellent. We have had an Infinity FX45, Nissan Armada and now the LEAF. I would place the LEAF above the Armada in terms of quality and feel. The FX was awesome but thats a $56K luxury car. We have 2900 miles and still waiting for our first "issue". So far so good.

 

[Timbuk]

Acura is very high quality for the price, above infinity IMO. I'm an EV person so I'm trying to deal with Nissan cheapness but I would never buy the new RAV EV, it's a CARB ploy from Toyota, wait for Toyota to make a real EV not a marketing conversion.

FWIW...A buddy of mine works for Tesla, and --based on his "no comments" -- the currently touring Toyota/Tesla RAV4 EV is a development mule for the powertrain only, just like Nissan's electrified Versas that previewed the Leaf back in 2007/8.

 

[Long4Leaf]

I guess I sound like a fanboy, but after 600 miles in mine, I'm not even slightly worried about quality.

At the risk of being a fanboy myself, I have to say after >700 miles, I have no worries either. I plan on keeping my LEAF for a LONG (LONG4LEAF) time, so I will report again at 100,000 miles.

 

[Andy]

After reading this thread yesterday I went over my LEAF carefully today, flashlight and wrench in hand. I did not take anything apart but checked the accessible areas, including under the car, testing nuts and bolts, and pullling on cables etc. I could not find anything that was loose or seemingly not properly installed. The carpet looks like new after 1,900 miles and 3 months - I do have the mats.