Gasoline May Rise Above $5 a Gallon

[DaveEV]

Heard on the radio that there will be a big spike this weekend, possibly 0.20 per gallon.
http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/gas_prices/ucan_warns_gas_super_spike" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ouch - one refinery fire after another - on top of middle east unrest and peak oil - poor gas guzzlers don't stand a chance!

Of course - I still see numerous people sitting in parking lots with their engines running for no apparent reason. Plenty of people blasting down the freeway at 80 mph. So apparently gas is still not expensive enough.

 

[cwerdna]

Of course - I still see numerous people sitting in parking lots with their engines running for no apparent reason. Plenty of people blasting down the freeway at 80 mph. So apparently gas is still not expensive enough.

Yep. I saw a monstrosity class (full-sized) SUVs idling away for no reason at a shopping mall today. Weird.

Gas had been rising steadily at two stations I pass frequently. Until today, it seemed to have leveled off at $4.03/gal at those two, where it was at on 2/21.

Today, on 2/22 (I'm a few mins past midnight now), those two stations shot up to $4.19/gal for regular! Wow!

I thought those two stations leveled off at $4.19 but today they're at $4.25/gal for regular.

I forgot to buy a locking gas cap today. I got one for my former 350Z awhile ago and whoops, I accidentally sold it w/the locking cap instead switching it back to the OEM cap.

Fortunately, big trucks and SUVs (since they have big fuel thanks and are higher off the ground) tend to be targets for gasoline thieves, not Priuses w/their tiny fuel tanks.

 

[planet4ever]

Philosophically I think gasoline prices should go much higher, but I've been hearing some ominous predictions that if diesel and jet fuel prices go much higher the price of everything is going to spike, and that (combined with high gas prices) is going to lead to public panic which will drive us into that double dip recession some have been worrying about. We definitely don't need that right now.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

Philosophically I think gasoline prices should go much higher, but I've been hearing some ominous predictions that if diesel and jet fuel prices go much higher the price of everything is going to spike, and that (combined with high gas prices) is going to lead to public panic which will drive us into that double dip recession some have been worrying about. We definitely don't need that right now.

Agreed. I would suggest this as a solution:

1. Tie the federal gas tax to inflation and adjust every year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax by $0.05 / year until the desired tax rate is achieved.

Getting even #1 done is a challenge in today's political climate.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Agreed. I would suggest this as a solution:

1. Tie the federal gas tax to inflation and adjust every year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax by $0.05 / year until the desired tax rate is achieved.

Getting even #1 done is a challenge in today's political climate.

How would increasing the tax on fuel be a solution? It may be appropriate, but I don't see how it helps stimulate economic activity.

I would suggest this as a solution: Let the market sort it out. If shippers don't like paying high fuel surcharges to truck goods they can ship more by rail. If people don't like paying high prices for things in the store they will gravitate towards sellers who get goods to market more efficiently.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Agreed. I would suggest this as a solution:

1. Tie the federal gas tax to inflation and adjust every year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax by $0.05 / year until the desired tax rate is achieved.

Getting even #1 done is a challenge in today's political climate.

How would increasing the tax on fuel be a solution? It may be appropriate, but I don't see how it helps stimulate economic activity.

I would suggest this as a solution: Let the market sort it out. If shippers don't like paying high fuel surcharges to truck goods they can ship more by rail. If people don't like paying high prices for things in the store they will gravitate towards sellers who get goods to market more efficiently.

the gas tax MUST be increased. it has not been increased on the Federal level since 1993 and its been decades longer in several states.

what we have a woefully underfunded and deteriorating highway system that has already caused deaths and that will continue. these projects take 2-5 years if we are in a hurry so we cant wait until it breaks then fix it.

increasing the tax gives us the money to start these maintenance/upgrade projects. these projects would employ as many as 300,000 people initially for 10-15 years (YES, we are that far behind)

another thing to keep in mind. we pay waaay less for gas than most other countries. the only characteristic of countries whose gas prices are lower than ares is one we dont share and that is overproduction of fossil fuels.

 

[gbarry42]

The way I learned it, when the prices rise, the revenue from the taxes goes up with it, because it's a percentage. Where did we get this idea about raising the tax rate and how did we get complacent about it?

 

[Fabio]

I would suggest this as a solution: Let the market sort it out. If shippers don't like paying high fuel surcharges to truck goods they can ship more by rail.

Gas prices are not set by the "invisible hand" but rather by a very visible cartel called OPEC. The "laws" of supply and demand go out of the window when there is a monopoly determining the prices.

 

[walterbays]

Of course - I still see numerous people sitting in parking lots with their engines running for no apparent reason. Plenty of people blasting down the freeway at 80 mph. So apparently gas is still not expensive enough.

What might be even more effective than higher prices is to make gas car drivers as aware of efficiency as EV drivers. On the dash, right where our Guessometer is, give them a Suckerometer. It would display time averaged $/hr operating costs, or at the push of a button, total $ burned since last fill-up.

Even better than that: Instead of paying their gasoline bill once a month, give them a coin slot inside the car so they have to keep feeding it quarters to keep the engine running. That solution would have to be implemented by the same Nissan "human factors" guy who gave us the Carwings "OK to accept."

 

[sproqitman]

The way I learned it, when the prices rise, the revenue from the taxes goes up with it, because it's a percentage. Where did we get this idea about raising the tax rate and how did we get complacent about it?

If you're talking about the federal gas tax, it's a fixed amount (currently $0.184/gallon). It doesn't go up when the price of gasoline goes up. So the federal highway fund actually loses out as the price of gasoline goes up, because people tend to buy less of it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Gas prices are not set by the "invisible hand" but rather by a very visible cartel called OPEC. The "laws" of supply and demand go out of the window when there is a monopoly determining the prices.

That's not completely true. AT&T was a monopoly for many years, but they still advertised like crazy. Remember "Reach out and touch someone" ? Monopolies compete for customer dollars as well; even though their might not be options for that same product you still have to face customers just not buying your thing and spending their money on something else. iPhone is a perfect example, certainly in the early days when there was no Android and AT&T was the only carrier.

In spite of all the p&m people have a lot of alternatives to buying as much gas as they do today, and demand destruction is very real. High prices will also do what they always do in markets, they bring out more sellers.

 

[Nubo]

Heard on the radio that there will be a big spike this weekend, possibly 0.20 per gallon.
http://www.ucan.org/gasoline_autos/gas_prices/ucan_warns_gas_super_spike" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm tempted to call shennanigans. Wasn't in in 2008 when multiple CA refineries had all decided to go offline for "maintenance" at the same time?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

The way I learned it, when the prices rise, the revenue from the taxes goes up with it, because it's a percentage. Where did we get this idea about raising the tax rate and how did we get complacent about it?

federal gas tax 18.4 cents PER GALLON
diesel 24.4 cents PER GALLON.

we now drive more efficient cars (we also drive more miles but primarily due to more drivers) so overall tax revenues have increased about 3% but the cost of maintaining roads has increased over 35% since 1993.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Gas prices are not set by the "invisible hand" but rather by a very visible cartel called OPEC. The "laws" of supply and demand go out of the window when there is a monopoly determining the prices.

That's not the full explanation for the current spike in oil prices. The current rise is being "fueled" by futures speculators gambling on world events forcing a price rise, leading to quick profits on their futures contracts. Over the long-term speculators don't have much effect because they have to unwind their positions and oil production tends to ramp up as the price rises, but they can exacerbate short-term price spikes.

A good example of this phenomenon was during the Libyan revolution a year ago: prices shot up despite Libya accounting for just 2% of world oil production (but a higher percentage of light, sweet, crude). Over time prices came down a bit after the world did not come to an end and the oil markets didn't freeze up. That prices didn't get down to previous levels was due more to increasing demand as the world economy, save for Europe, continues to grow, especially in China and India; China now being the largest car market in the world.

The OPEC cartel has some control over oil prices but their influence is not absolute and the countries making up the cartel are often not in accord on policy (for example: Iran and Saudi Arabia).

 

[charlie1300]

)The price of oil in the short term is based on many factors: increased demand from India and China, manipulation of supply by oil companies and major producers, speculation in oil futures, increasing costs for new sources.

The point for us as consumers is that the long term trend is upwards, and our only way to reduce what we pay for gas is to use less. Politicans like to lie and tell us there is some other solution -$2.50/gal if you elect me! HOW? But we should realize by now that kind of talk is all about them wanting to get elected. Do you really believe that all these millionares running for President care about the price of gas, or have even gone themselves to a gas station and filled up in years (trust me, their body guards are fueling up the bullet proof SUV, and the superPAC is paying for it :lol:

 

[planet4ever]

I've been hearing some ominous predictions that if diesel and jet fuel prices go much higher the price of everything is going to spike

Agreed. I would suggest this as a solution:
1. Tie the federal gas tax to inflation and adjust every year.
2. Increase the federal gas tax by $0.05 / year until the desired tax rate is achieved.

How would increasing the tax on fuel be a solution? It may be appropriate, but I don't see how it helps stimulate economic activity.

drees didn't say increase the tax on fuel. He said increase the gas tax. Big difference. Yes, the price of gas does hurt consumers, but in a way they can compensate for by slowing down or buying more efficient cars. Diesel and jet fuel prices, on the other hand, put upward pressure on the price of nearly all goods and services, and consumers have no control over that, except to go without. And that is what depresses economic activity.

Ray

 

[GRA]

The way I learned it, when the prices rise, the revenue from the taxes goes up with it, because it's a percentage. Where did we get this idea about raising the tax rate and how did we get complacent about it?

If you're talking about the federal gas tax, it's a fixed amount (currently $0.184/gallon). It doesn't go up when the price of gasoline goes up. So the federal highway fund actually loses out as the price of gasoline goes up, because people tend to buy less of it.

Right. For the federal gas tax to be equal in purchasing power to when it was last raised in 1993, it would have to be $0.28/gallon. When oil prices rise, asphalt prices also rise (asphalt being what's left of a barrel of oil after LP gas, naptha, gasoline, diesel/kerosene/jetfuel, fuel oil etc. have been distilled), so not only does the fuel tax bring in less as prices rise, but it also buys less road maintenance. The maintenance vehicles are also running diesel or gas, so their costs rise boosting the mismatch even more. So, fuel taxes need to be percentage based, and/or we need a weight x mileage-based tax on all vehicles.

Of course, as prices rise people drive less, so the roads should need less maintenance. But the majority of the damage is done by big trucks, and they or trains are needed to move goods around. As both of them are diesel-powered in this country (94% of goods shipped in the U.S. move by diesel, plus virtually all ocean-going shipping), cutting back on our need for gasoline alone won't make much difference to our total petroleum use - there's no way we can move ocean shipping or aircraft off liquid fuels, and while we could move trains to pure electric (presumably gas/nuke/hydro etc., but not coal) instead of diesel-electric, there's nothing we can do about trucks.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

some studies estimate that we could employ 150,000- 250,000 construction workers for 10-15 years to complete the bare necessities of current needs on the highway system. another 2 million + would be employed to support the construction indirectly

so, ya it could greatly impact our economy. sure it will raise prices in many ways and maybe an adjustment is needed for people who drive for living but it also allows people who want to burn more than their fair share of oil, to pay for the privilege of doing so.

 

[Volt3939]

... there's nothing we can do about trucks.

A friend of mine runs his entire fleet of semi's on Natural Gas. His is a local outfit that maybe drives 100-150 mile routes.

 

[TEG]

...Even better than that: Instead of paying their gasoline bill once a month, give them a coin slot inside the car so they have to keep feeding it quarters to keep the engine running...

Reminded me of this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtGiohyBWp4[/youtube]