Comparison: Why I Chose a Nissan Leaf Plus over a Tesla Model 3

[SJEVer]

Where can I get that adapter?

 

[SJEVer]

Where can I get that adapter?

 

[Yodrak]

Teslas have a "chill mode", which re-maps the accelerator pedal in a manner similar to Eco Mode which I employ in LEAF almost constantly -- not for any putative efficiency but for ease of driving and increased control at maneuvering speeds.

As far as FSD I can't imagine why anyone would pay $10,000 for a function which does not yet exist and probably won't ever do what it says in any meaningful way at any point during the reasonable lifetime of the vehicle.

I routinely use Eco Mode when driving my Leaf and Chill Mode when driving my Tesla. The Leaf battery is aging and needs whatever extra mile or two Eco Mode might provide. The Tesla is plenty fast enough for me in Chill Mode and I've no interest in stop-light drag racing anyway.

I agree that FSD is a misnomer, people need to remain fully alert and not trust it too far. For an additional $12,000 on a new Tesla purchase it doesn't add much useful functionality beyond Enhanced Autopilot, which is expensive enough at $6,000. I got FSD for $2,000 back when. With subsequent updates it has since given me features that today come with Enhanced Autopilot, features that I wouldn't have now if I hadn't gotten FSD. So, if I were buying a new Tesla today, I would get Enhanced Autopilot and skip FSD. If I were buying a used Tesla I would look for one that has FSD to be sure that I get all of the features that are in today's Enhanced Autopilot.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Yodrak, what year is your Leaf?

 

[Fersigo]

After a week of research, I bought a new 2022 Leaf instead of a Tesla Model 3. Tesla Model 3 is a beautiful car, and I'm sure I would have been happy to get it, but here are the reasons why I chose to get a Leaf instead in December of 2021. If you found this forum because you are pondering the same question, I hope this will be useful as you decide which car is better for you. (Apologies in advance if any of my facts are wrong, e.g., vertical trunk space, warranty details, etc.)


LEAF BENEFITS:
Reasonable sticker price despite the pandemic supply chain inflation.
Immediate availability at many dealerships.
$7500 tax rebate, unlike Tesla.
8-year/100k-mile battery warranty, same as Tesla's.
5-year/60k-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, better than Tesla's.
Less in-cabin road and wind noise than the Tesla 3 (search YouTube).
Nissan build quality versus Tesla, e.g., Tesla door handles.
Vertical trunk space better than Tesla's, possibly total volume too.
charger plug at the front is more convenient than at the back.
Nissan dealerships are very common nationwide in the USA for any repairs or parts.
Regenerative braking might be more efficient than Tesla's, but this is uncertain.
Comes with floormats (saves $100, less annoying).
Comes with NEMA 14-50 electrical adapter (saves $35, less annoying).
LeafSpy Pro phone app is useful and fun (costs $15, plus $30 for the OBDII module).


LEAF NEGATIVES:
Batteries are not liquid-cooled like on the Tesla.
Obsolete CHAdeMO charger, not CCS or Tesla charger.
Dashboard is not as advanced or stylish as Tesla's.
Forward driving pedestrian warning noise is REALLY annoying; don't know about Tesla's.
Back seat leg room is OK for children, but cramped for adults; Tesla looks better.
Back seat headroom is not good for tall people; Tesla looks better.
Nissan Connect app works OK, but is not fast; cannot change charge scheduling.
No over-the-air software updates like on the Tesla, must go to dealer.
Back seats don't fold completely flat like on Tesla, only flat-ish.
No spare tire, like on Tesla (both have repair kits).
Storage space for small sundries around driver is OK, not great; Tesla looks better.
No option to limit max charge to 80% anymore, must adjust via charger scheduling.


CHAdeMO:
Rapid charging slightly damages batteries on any EV today, especially in hot weather. If you will charge 99% of the time at home at night, then 240V charging is better for battery life on both the Leaf and the Tesla. If you need to drive cross-country, then the Tesla is better for its fast-charging stations. The Leaf's CHAdeMO is obsolete and CHAdeMO charging stations will be very difficult to find in five years.

If your electric utility offers a reduced rate for evenings, then 240V charging at home is cheaper than using commercial rapid charging stations. My utility company has a "Free Nights and Weekends" plan that makes scheduled nighttime charging free (the higher weekday rate is offset by the free weekend days, then free EV charging at night). Your utility company may have a similar plan. You don't need to purchase a third-party EVSE to schedule your charging, it is built into the Leaf dashboard already.


BATTERY:
2014 and later Leaf batteries use a different internal design and chemistry (Nickel + Cobalt + Manganese) than the older batteries. Beware of old YouTube videos that warn about "the" Leaf battery.

Lack of liquid cooling is a big issue in hot climates. If you commute at highway speeds in hot climates, park in the sun all day at work, want to use rapid charging, and habitually use maximum acceleration, then a Tesla will be better for battery life because of its thermal management system.

With the 8-year/100k-mile battery warranty on the Leaf, I personally am betting that the cost of a replacement battery in 8 years, if necessary, will be much lower than today. Battery technology is rapidly advancing and prices are falling (I don't know what the future will bring, of course). Hopefully this will be true for Teslas too. There are aftermarket options to replace the battery on a Leaf from non-Nissan companies. Does Tesla allow third-party battery replacement or repair? I don't know.

For the Nissan battery warranty, remember than the Leaf records its operational details to local storage that a Nissan technician can retrieve. The battery warranty is voided if you 1) expose the Lear to ambient temperatures above 120F/49C for over 24 hours, 2) store the Leaf in temperatures below -13F/-25C for over seven days, 3) leave your vehicle for over 14 days where the battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge, or 4) do not get a battery quality report every year by a Nissan-approved technician. It seems that Nissan has not been a stickler for the annual quality reports for battery warranty repairs, but this verbiage comes straight from the Nissan warranty booklet. If the LeafSpy app on your phone shows battery problems, then take the Leaf to a dealership for an official battery diagnostic report, or, if your favorite auto shop is capable, have the battery check done at the same time as your annual state inspection.

Here is a reliable and impartial source of information about batteries:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

BUILD QUALITY:
A major reason I chose the Leaf was build quality. Nissan has decades of experience building millions of cars worldwide and a decade of experience with prior Leaf models. (I have a 1998 Nissan Altima and it just keeps on running and running and running...) Tesla is the new kid on the block with a small fraction of that manufacturing record. The Nissan reputation for reliability and build quality is solid, even if it's not the best. Pre-2014 Leaf models certainly had battery problems, but what about the rest of the car?

Here are the Consumer Reports and JD Powers articles that influenced my decision in favor of the Leaf:

"Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" (19.Nov.2021)
https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/
"Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant J.D. Power permission to survey its owners..." (18.Feb.2021)
Tesla was fourth from the bottom for dependability; only Jaguar, Alpha and Land Rover were worse.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds
"Nissan LEAF Awarded In 2020 J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study" in the compact car category (15.Feb.2020)
https://insideevs.com/news/398848/nissan-leaf-award-vehicle-dependability-study/

DISTANCE TO DEALERSHIP:
While the Tesla is more sporty and stylish, those considerations kind of fade after a year, especially if you have to drive to a distant Tesla Service Center to fix a problem and wait in the lobby or at a hotel. My Nissan dealership is only 6 miles away if I need a repair, so I could take a Lyft/Uber back home if necessary. There are 49 Nissan dealerships in Pennsylvania, for example, but only 3 in the state for Tesla; there are 78 Nissan dealerships in Texas, but only 12 for Tesla.

Here is where you can check your state to see how far the drive will be when something inevitably needs fixing:

https://www.nissanusa.com/nissandealers/location/
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/services/United States
There is also the cost of replacement parts and service work. Tesla owners complain about these things online. It seems that parts and labor for Nissans are less expensive than for Teslas, but I don't have any proof of this, I'm just going on what some Tesla owners say in YouTube videos. As a test, call a Nissan dealership and ask how much it would cost to, say, replace a door window, then call a Tesla service center and ask the same. In large cities, Nissan dealerships compete with each other, not just with other manufacturers. If there is only one Tesla center within a 100 miles of your home, you are more at their mercy.


ROAD NOISE:
Another big issue for me was road noise (I have tinnitus) and there are too many negative YouTube videos by the Tesla owners themselves about Model 3 road noise:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+road+noise+wind+noise

IMMEDIATE AVAILABILITY AND ZERO INTEREST FINANCING:
I don't know what kind of financing Tesla offers, but I got zero percent interest from Nissan for 6 years and drove the Leaf off the lot that afternoon, no waiting 4-9 months. Taking into account the $7500 tax rebate, rising inflation (versus my fixed payments), the lower sticker price of the Leaf, the lower expected maintenance costs/hassles versus the Tesla, and my plan to invest the $10,000+ I'm not paying extra for the Tesla, then the Leaf was just too good overall. (I'm a fanboy of financial independence, not cars.)


PRICE NEGOTIATIONS:
If car price is not a major concern, then this whole discussion is probably irrelevant to you. You can simply trade up every few years to whatever catches your fancy despite the trade-in losses.

When you negotiate the final price for a Leaf, talk about the "obsolete CHAdeMO charger" and "non-liquid cooled battery" with the sales manager to get a better price. Mention how the Nissan Ariya has abandoned CHAdeMO in favor of CCS and how the Ariya's dashboard looks much nicer. Once the pandemic inflation has subsided and the Nissan Ariya is widely available, you should be able to negotiate pretty aggressively.

Remember, no matter what you buy today, it won't be considered "cool" or "cutting edge" in a few years, there will always be something new and shiny to be jealous of, so maybe today it's better to not get suckered in or seduced. (Do you regret spending $1200 for a phone?) And if the streets are going to be packed with Tesla Model 3's with the same few paint colors in a couple years, perhaps you'll think about that missing $10,000 you could have spent on something else. The big question is whether you plan to drive cross-country and will need a Tesla (or CCS) rapid charging port, since CHAdeMO is obsolete.


THIS FORUM
This forum helped me make a decision regarding Leaf vs. Tesla (thank you!) so that's why I'm posting the above, to help others who find this site as they consider their options too. At first I just assumed I'd get a Tesla, until I thought about it more. If you get a Tesla, great, enjoy it! I'm very happy with my Leaf. Hopefully others in this forum can add useful things to think about for making an informed choice, all the things I've overlooked or got wrong.

This is a really useful piece of work, thank you. It is also pretty balanced - and I can say that because we own a 40kWh 2020 Leaf Techna and a 2021 AWD LR Model 3, so I'm aware of the features of both cars. The only thing I could contribute would be to say that we see our cars as being complementary, not competitive. Our superb Leaf excels at economical, sub-100 miles daily trips, whereas the M3 is definitely our first choice for long trips - it is that little bit more refined, quiet and comfy, and of course there are Tesla superchargers just about everywhere... even in Scotland!

 

[Yodrak]

2013 (see my signature!)

 

[bruceha2000]

I routinely use Eco Mode when driving my Leaf and Chill Mode when driving my Tesla. The Leaf battery is aging and needs whatever extra mile or two Eco Mode might provide. The Tesla is plenty fast enough for me in Chill Mode and I've no interest in stop-light drag racing anyway.

I agree that FSD is a misnomer, people need to remain fully alert and not trust it too far. For an additional $12,000 on a new Tesla purchase it doesn't add much useful functionality beyond Enhanced Autopilot, which is expensive enough at $6,000. I got FSD for $2,000 back when. With subsequent updates it has since given me features that today come with Enhanced Autopilot, features that I wouldn't have now if I hadn't gotten FSD. So, if I were buying a new Tesla today, I would get Enhanced Autopilot and skip FSD. If I were buying a used Tesla I would look for one that has FSD to be sure that I get all of the features that are in today's Enhanced Autopilot.

My daughter and son in law visited from Virgina 2 weeks ago in their new Model Y long range. I was not very impressed with the FSD. Lane changes were VERY angular, not a fade to the side as we all do when we are in control. It waited until the very last second - meaning when it ran out of the onramp lane, even though there was not a single car in sight on the interstate - to "merge" (ie sharp turn left, then right) onto the interstate. Similarly it waited until the last second to "merge" onto the off ramp, same scenario. It also was not aware of the state requirement to not be in the passing lane unless you are passing. It changed to the left lane to pass then stayed there. Son in law had to put it back in the right lane. My son in law compares it to a student driver.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

2.4 miles/kWh in subzero weather with a M3 Performance.

At near 0F in Chicago (higher air density) I have done >158 miles on a charge before..but cabin might have been colder.

 

[chk]

After a week of research, I bought a new 2022 Leaf instead of a Tesla Model 3. Tesla Model 3 is a beautiful car, and I'm sure I would have been happy to get it, but here are the reasons why I chose to get a Leaf instead in December of 2021. If you found this forum because you are pondering the same question, I hope this will be useful as you decide which car is better for you. (Apologies in advance if any of my facts are wrong, e.g., vertical trunk space, warranty details, etc.)
...

Hint: "Forward driving pedestrian warning noise is REALLY annoying": this can be switched off and on by a button in the car during cruise, or permanently using Leaf Spy. At least with my ZE1 2018.

 

[Yodrak]

My daughter and son in law visited from Virgina 2 weeks ago in their new Model Y long range. I was not very impressed with the FSD. Lane changes were VERY angular, not a fade to the side as we all do when we are in control.

I use FSD when highway driving and find lane changes to be smooth and gradual. My wife often turns Autopilot off inadvertently because she 'pushes' the lane change to be faster than the Autopilot, and she does not change lanes aggressively. (She does not use FSD) I note that FSD offers 3 modes - Chill, Normal, and Aggressive. I use Chill. Perhaps your son-in-law uses Aggressive? I have also set FSD to make minimal lane changes, and to notify me of a proposed land change rather than automatically make a lane change on its own.

It waited until the very last second - meaning when it ran out of the onramp lane, even though there was not a single car in sight on the interstate - to "merge" (ie sharp turn left, then right) onto the interstate.

I have noticed this behavior also. It's unnerving, so I do not engage FSD until after I have merged onto a highway and have entered the highway lane I want to drive in. I do not use FSD on surface streets, but I usually do use Traffic-Aware Cruise Control with stop light and stop-sign awareness.

Similarly it waited until the last second to "merge" onto the off ramp, same scenario.

I find just the opposite behavior - FSD will take me onto an off ramp as soon as the ramp opens up as long as there are no cars in the way.

It also was not aware of the state requirement to not be in the passing lane unless you are passing. It changed to the left lane to pass then stayed there. Son in law had to put it back in the right lane.

You are talking about passing on a two-lane road? I find that after passing FSD will sometimes stay in the passing lane for a while, but at some point it will recommend (again, I set lane changes to 'recommend', not 'automatic') leaving the passing lane. It will promptly recommend leaving the passing lane if a car closes in from behind.

My son in law compares it to a student driver.

That's a good way to look at it. Too many drivers are inattentive when using FSD, sometimes resulting in an accident that is blamed on FSD when the root cause is that the driver was not paying attention.

 

[bruceha2000]

You are talking about passing on a two-lane road?

No, passing on the interstate. Only 2 lanes each direction in Vermont unlike the 6 in places in So Cal. They put up lighted signs like "Camp in the forest, not in the left lane"

Perhaps your son-in-law uses Aggressive?

Could be, we only went to dinner and back. They got it late last year, apparently it was financially viable to buy the Y while waiting for his Cyber Truck (has had a deposit for years. like a lot of people), I guess he will get a good deal on the trade in. There is a lot of learning to do with any new vehicle but especially something so different as a Tesla.

In fact it told him to put his eyes on the road in FSD because he was looking at the display. I'm not a fan of having EVERYTHING on the big display. I'm sure as with any new vehicle you learn how to get to things without looking too long. However I can't for the life of me understand why the rear seat heaters can't be controlled by the people sitting back there, those are on the display as well.

Early on he asked if we wanted to see how fast it was. We all said no. We are Prius drivers (and now the wife's Leaf). We are more interested in how often we can get to 60 MPG on a tank than how fast we can get to 60 MPH. I've never had a problem with the acceleration of my two gen II and my current 2018 Prime. The Leaf has plenty of acceleration, the Teslas are ridiculous. The only place you need that kind of acceleration is coming out of the pit in a stock car race.

 

[Toby]

The Leaf has plenty of acceleration, the Teslas are ridiculous. The only place you need that kind of acceleration is coming out of the pit in a stock car race.

Agreed.

 

[Yodrak]

No, passing on the interstate. Only 2 lanes each direction in Vermont unlike the 6 in places in So Cal. They put up lighted signs like "Camp in the forest, not in the left lane"

My bad, 2 lanes in each direction is what I was thinking.

The Leaf has plenty of acceleration, the Teslas are ridiculous. The only place you need that kind of acceleration is coming out of the pit in a stock car race.

I think Tesla acceleration can be useful when entering a highway that has heavy-but-moving traffic, as long as one isn't too aggressive about it (because they're driving a Tesla). That is, make sure there really is enough space to merge AND that the traffic is moving smoothly enough that the car you pull in behind isn't going to slow down while you're accelerating. Having someone merge in front of you when their car doesn't have the oomph to get up to speed is not only frustrating, it might get you rear-ended if you have to slow down suddenly.

 

[bruceha2000]

What I have noticed in the 50+ years I have been driving is that people with high powered cars are much more prone to forcing in front of a vehicle already on the road than merge in behind them. I suspect many Tesla owners behave the same way given their cars have much faster acceleration than most of the high powered ICE vehicles currently on the roads.

 

[SageBrush]

What I have noticed in the 50+ years I have been driving is that people with high powered cars are much more prone to forcing in front of a vehicle already on the road than merge in behind them. I suspect many Tesla owners behave the same way given their cars have much faster acceleration than most of the high powered ICE vehicles currently on the roads.

I can speak for myself --
I was, and remain a gentle Prius driver at heart. Aggressive driving is not part of my character. And yet, I find driving a high powered EV is a great experience for one reason: I don't have drivers that are behind me and in the lane I want to merge into try to block the merge by speeding up.

The longer story to this is that I signal my intent to merge before I merge. Lots of asshats see the merge signal and accelerate. In a fast EV, I start my merge signal at the same time I accelerate a little, and this convinces the asshat to not try and close the gap.

 

[Yodrak]

What I have noticed in the 50+ years I have been driving is that people with high powered cars are much more prone to forcing in front of a vehicle already on the road than merge in behind them.

I notice that virtually all drivers try to merge in front of, rather than behind, no matter what kind of car they're driving. There seems to be something in the human psyche that requires a driver to get ahead of another driver, as if pulling in behind made them a wussy.

I suspect many Tesla owners behave the same way given their cars have much faster acceleration than most of the high powered ICE vehicles currently on the roads.

I can't disagree with that. Problem is, when merging, available space is more important than acceleration that is often followed by braking.

 

[Yodrak]

I can speak for myself --
I was, and remain a gentle Prius driver at heart. Aggressive driving is not part of my character. And yet, I find driving a high powered EV is a great experience for one reason: I don't have drivers that are behind me and in the lane I want to merge into try to block the merge by speeding up.

The longer story to this is that I signal my intent to merge before I merge. Lots of asshats see the merge signal and accelerate. ...

Yup. Signaling one's intent often inspires others to respond 'oh no you won't'. It's the inbred macho attitude again.

 

[fester]

Back to the original topic....because 2 years ago when I got my 22' SV+, I had also looked at a Model 3 prior to that. Then Tesla started raised prices every other month...

 

[JonathanBlatter]

After a week of research, I bought a new 2022 Leaf instead of a Tesla Model 3. Tesla Model 3 is a beautiful car, and I'm sure I would have been happy to get it, but here are the reasons why I chose to get a Leaf instead in December of 2021. If you found this forum because you are pondering the same question, I hope this will be useful as you decide which car is better for you. (Apologies in advance if any of my facts are wrong, e.g., vertical trunk space, warranty details, etc.)


LEAF BENEFITS:
Reasonable sticker price despite the pandemic supply chain inflation.
Immediate availability at many dealerships.
$7500 tax rebate, unlike Tesla.
8-year/100k-mile battery warranty, same as Tesla's.
5-year/60k-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, better than Tesla's.
Less in-cabin road and wind noise than the Tesla 3 (search YouTube).
Nissan build quality versus Tesla, e.g., Tesla door handles.
Vertical trunk space better than Tesla's, possibly total volume too.
charger plug at the front is more convenient than at the back.
Nissan dealerships are very common nationwide in the USA for any repairs or parts.
Regenerative braking might be more efficient than Tesla's, but this is uncertain.
Comes with floormats (saves $100, less annoying).
Comes with NEMA 14-50 electrical adapter (saves $35, less annoying).
LeafSpy Pro phone app is useful and fun (costs $15, plus $30 for the OBDII module).


LEAF NEGATIVES:
Batteries are not liquid-cooled like on the Tesla.
Obsolete CHAdeMO charger, not CCS or Tesla charger.
Dashboard is not as advanced or stylish as Tesla's.
Forward driving pedestrian warning noise is REALLY annoying; don't know about Tesla's.
Back seat leg room is OK for children, but cramped for adults; Tesla looks better.
Back seat headroom is not good for tall people; Tesla looks better.
Nissan Connect app works OK, but is not fast; cannot change charge scheduling.
No over-the-air software updates like on the Tesla, must go to dealer.
Back seats don't fold completely flat like on Tesla, only flat-ish.
No spare tire, like on Tesla (both have repair kits).
Storage space for small sundries around driver is OK, not great; Tesla looks better.
No option to limit max charge to 80% anymore, must adjust via charger scheduling.


CHAdeMO:
Rapid charging slightly damages batteries on any EV today, especially in hot weather. If you will charge 99% of the time at home at night, then 240V charging is better for battery life on both the Leaf and the Tesla. If you need to drive cross-country, then the Tesla is better for its fast-charging stations. The Leaf's CHAdeMO is obsolete and CHAdeMO charging stations will be very difficult to find in five years.

If your electric utility offers a reduced rate for evenings, then 240V charging at home is cheaper than using commercial rapid charging stations. My utility company has a "Free Nights and Weekends" plan that makes scheduled nighttime charging free (the higher weekday rate is offset by the free weekend days, then free EV charging at night). Your utility company may have a similar plan. You don't need to purchase a third-party EVSE to schedule your charging, it is built into the Leaf dashboard already.


BATTERY:
2014 and later Leaf batteries use a different internal design and chemistry (Nickel + Cobalt + Manganese) than the older batteries. Beware of old YouTube videos that warn about "the" Leaf battery.

Lack of liquid cooling is a big issue in hot climates. If you commute at highway speeds in hot climates, park in the sun all day at work, want to use rapid charging, and habitually use maximum acceleration, then a Tesla will be better for battery life because of its thermal management system.

With the 8-year/100k-mile battery warranty on the Leaf, I personally am betting that the cost of a replacement battery in 8 years, if necessary, will be much lower than today. Battery technology is rapidly advancing and prices are falling (I don't know what the future will bring, of course). Hopefully this will be true for Teslas too. There are aftermarket options to replace the battery on a Leaf from non-Nissan companies. Does Tesla allow third-party battery replacement or repair? I don't know.

For the Nissan battery warranty, remember than the Leaf records its operational details to local storage that a Nissan technician can retrieve. The battery warranty is voided if you 1) expose the Lear to ambient temperatures above 120F/49C for over 24 hours, 2) store the Leaf in temperatures below -13F/-25C for over seven days, 3) leave your vehicle for over 14 days where the battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge, or 4) do not get a battery quality report every year by a Nissan-approved technician. It seems that Nissan has not been a stickler for the annual quality reports for battery warranty repairs, but this verbiage comes straight from the Nissan warranty booklet. If the LeafSpy app on your phone shows battery problems, then take the Leaf to a dealership for an official battery diagnostic report, or, if your favorite auto shop is capable, have the battery check done at the same time as your annual state inspection.

Here is a reliable and impartial source of information about batteries:

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

BUILD QUALITY:
A major reason I chose the Leaf was build quality. Nissan has decades of experience building millions of cars worldwide and a decade of experience with prior Leaf models. (I have a 1998 Nissan Altima and it just keeps on running and running and running...) Tesla is the new kid on the block with a small fraction of that manufacturing record. The Nissan reputation for reliability and build quality is solid, even if it's not the best. Pre-2014 Leaf models certainly had battery problems, but what about the rest of the car?

Here are the Consumer Reports and JD Powers articles that influenced my decision in favor of the Leaf:

"Consumer Reports Still Ranks Tesla Reliability 27th Out Of 28" (19.Nov.2021)
https://insideevs.com/news/549130/consumerreports-tesla-reliability-poor-2021/
"Unlike other manufacturers, Tesla doesn’t grant J.D. Power permission to survey its owners..." (18.Feb.2021)
Tesla was fourth from the bottom for dependability; only Jaguar, Alpha and Land Rover were worse.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2021-us-vehicle-dependability-study-vds
"Nissan LEAF Awarded In 2020 J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study" in the compact car category (15.Feb.2020)
https://insideevs.com/news/398848/nissan-leaf-award-vehicle-dependability-study/

DISTANCE TO DEALERSHIP:
While the Tesla is more sporty and stylish, those considerations kind of fade after a year, especially if you have to drive to a distant Tesla Service Center to fix a problem and wait in the lobby or at a hotel. My Nissan dealership is only 6 miles away if I need a repair, so I could take a Lyft/Uber back home if necessary. There are 49 Nissan dealerships in Pennsylvania, for example, but only 3 in the state for Tesla; there are 78 Nissan dealerships in Texas, but only 12 for Tesla.

Here is where you can check your state to see how far the drive will be when something inevitably needs fixing:

https://www.nissanusa.com/nissandealers/location/
https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/services/United States
There is also the cost of replacement parts and service work. Tesla owners complain about these things online. It seems that parts and labor for Nissans are less expensive than for Teslas, but I don't have any proof of this, I'm just going on what some Tesla owners say in YouTube videos. As a test, call a Nissan dealership and ask how much it would cost to, say, replace a door window, then call a Tesla service center and ask the same. In large cities, Nissan dealerships compete with each other, not just with other manufacturers. If there is only one Tesla center within a 100 miles of your home, you are more at their mercy.


ROAD NOISE:
Another big issue for me was road noise (I have tinnitus) and there are too many negative YouTube videos by the Tesla owners themselves about Model 3 road noise:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+road+noise+wind+noise

IMMEDIATE AVAILABILITY AND ZERO INTEREST FINANCING:
I don't know what kind of financing Tesla offers, but I got zero percent interest from Nissan for 6 years and drove the Leaf off the lot that afternoon, no waiting 4-9 months. Taking into account the $7500 tax rebate, rising inflation (versus my fixed payments), the lower sticker price of the Leaf, the lower expected maintenance costs/hassles versus the Tesla, and my plan to invest the $10,000+ I'm not paying extra for the Tesla, then the Leaf was just too good overall. (I'm a fanboy of financial independence, not cars.)


PRICE NEGOTIATIONS:
If car price is not a major concern, then this whole discussion is probably irrelevant to you. You can simply trade up every few years to whatever catches your fancy despite the trade-in losses.

When you negotiate the final price for a Leaf, talk about the "obsolete CHAdeMO charger" and "non-liquid cooled battery" with the sales manager to get a better price. Mention how the Nissan Ariya has abandoned CHAdeMO in favor of CCS and how the Ariya's dashboard looks much nicer. Once the pandemic inflation has subsided and the Nissan Ariya is widely available, you should be able to negotiate pretty aggressively.

Remember, no matter what you buy today, it won't be considered "cool" or "cutting edge" in a few years, there will always be something new and shiny to be jealous of, so maybe today it's better to not get suckered in or seduced. (Do you regret spending $1200 for a phone?) And if the streets are going to be packed with Tesla Model 3's with the same few paint colors in a couple years, perhaps you'll think about that missing $10,000 you could have spent on something else. The big question is whether you plan to drive cross-country and will need a Tesla (or CCS) rapid charging port, since CHAdeMO is obsolete.


THIS FORUM
This forum helped me make a decision regarding Leaf vs. Tesla (thank you!) so that's why I'm posting the above, to help others who find this site as they consider their options too. At first I just assumed I'd get a Tesla, until I thought about it more. If you get a Tesla, great, enjoy it! I'm very happy with my Leaf. Hopefully others in this forum can add useful things to think about for making an informed choice, all the things I've overlooked or got wrong.

Hi a very intresing comarison.
there is one thing I had om my Leaf 2011 LeafSpy. but somehow I dont get it to work on my 2022 e+ model
in your coment you wrote "LeafSpy Pro phone app is useful and fun (costs $15, plus $30 for the OBDII module)."
What model is that and is tat anyting diffend then the KIWI A1?
My dealer cant help me with this and also not with the battery readin.
do you have a advise

 

[kennedyjalex]

I have both, there is no comparison. The ONLY reason is but a Leaf over a Tesla is that you just cannot afford the upfront cost.

The Model 3 is like alien technology compared to just about any else. You don't even need a key or a fob!