Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Stoaty]

The Japanese culture is different to ours and whereas GM responded to the Volt Fire Fiasco quickly, offering to buy back cars etc, the Japanese culture is such that they don't want to lose face by admitting fault. They will internally accept the problem and later remedy without so much as an admission. When I worked at ComputerVision many moons ago, the Japanese division downplayed they had a call center for customers to call with an issue, simply having a call center would indicate a faulty product. When they called me for technical support they never claimed our software was faulty, but asked us to help them correct their error in being unable to complete a task.

Suggested script for bar losers who call Nissan Customer Support :

"Hello, the Leaf is a wonderful car, but I have made an error in caring for it such that it lost two capacity bars already. Would you be so kind as to help me correct my errors in caring for the Leaf so that I may retain full battery capacity? Thank you for your kind help to me as I don't understand the steps needed to prevent battery capacity loss."

 

[Volusiano]

FYI: I got a PM from Anne on Nissan's social support team asking to remove Jessica's direct # - apparently she is getting bombarded with calls. I have asked her for a replacement contact. In the mean time, I've also asked anyone who's posted Jessica's # to remove it and if someone needs it to PM them for it...

Misunderstanding on my part. The number that was posted is the main 877-NO-GAS-EV Nissan LEAF help-line. Nissan wants everyone with an issue to call that number - just not to call Jessica's direct extension as she is just one agent out of many who is taking these calls. So if you feel that you have lost capacity prematurely, make sure you call Nissan and open a case.

How much time does each of the call take? I remember it took me less than 5 minutes to call in to get my case number. But let's be generous and give them 30 minutes to handle and process a call. That's 16 calls a day, or possible around 50 calls in the last 3 days alone? Hardly the 5 cases that Mark Perry mentioned.

 

[shrink]

Nissan now has a point person to collect information from owners who feel that they are having an issue with the battery capacity of their car.

That point person is (redacted)

I recommend that if you believe that you have an issue with your car that you call and speak with her. Keep in mind that her job will be to collect the owner information and pass it on. She will not have any solutions or timelines to offer, so be nice and civil when you speak with her.

Dear Supreme Rational Being,

Your comments are unnecessarily pedantic, patronizing, and inaccurate. Nissan does not have a "point person to collect information." It was one customer service rep doing her job. She has since been overwhelmed and asked that her information be removed.

May I politely suggest you remove her information from your earlier post? Pretty please? It is the only civil thing to do.

You really are the last person that should be giving etiquette advice.

The community here quickly and respectfully acknowledged, and then responded to the request for removal of information.

It is insulting to think rational adults below your utmost rational stature would behave otherwise.

 

[thankyouOB]

Misunderstanding on my part. The number that was posted is the main 877-NO-GAS-EV Nissan LEAF help-line. Nissan wants everyone with an issue to call that number - just not to call Jessica's direct extension as she is just one agent out of many who is taking these calls. So if you feel that you have lost capacity prematurely, make sure you call Nissan and open a case.

How much time does each of the call take? I remember it took me less than 5 minutes to call in to get my case number. But let's be generous and give them 30 minutes to handle and process a call. That's 16 calls a day, or possible around 50 calls in the last 3 days alone? Hardly the 5 cases that Mark Perry mentioned.[/quote]

huh?
someone says that a operator is handling these full time with no other duties?

 

[RegGuheert]

Mine read 82.5% at 12,434 miles (7/18/12) whereas it read 83.6% at 11,383 miles (6/10/12) when I first lost the top bar.

Rick, did you re-lose your twelfth bar after the Nissan dealer reset it, or do you still have all 12 bars? (Sorry if you already answered this and I missed it!)

 

[Paolo]

At this point the damage cannot be undone.
After reading the problems reported in this topic I would not have bought the leaf.
So I think many future leaf owners will change their mind.
My LEAF is ok but I called the dealer to say that I don't like the way Nissan is facing the problem.

 

[HXGuy]

Mine read 82.5% at 12,434 miles (7/18/12) whereas it read 83.6% at 11,383 miles (6/10/12) when I first lost the top bar.

Rick, did you re-lose your twelfth bar after the Nissan dealer reset it, or do you still have all 12 bars? (Sorry if you already answered this and I missed it!)

He has reported that he has lost the 12th bar again.

 

[RegGuheert]

He has reported that he has lost the 12th bar again.

Thanks! I missed it...

I'm glad to hear that it does not *stay* reset!

 

[mdh]

I don't have a problem with my car, as of yet. But, I did call the 800 number to let the call center know that I am disappointed how Nissan has handled the problem so far.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

cross posting this as general info. I am glad to see at least there appears to be a change in the way they are handling this, at least for the moment. It's good to see signs that we have effectively rung the alarm bell finally!

Nissan wants to take my Leaf to Casa Grande for testing. I guess they want to test cars that have lost 2 or more bars.
They are offering a loner car and $250 gift card to compensate for gas.


Stay tuned everyone!

 

[opossum]

There once was a little Leaf. It was cute and cheap to feed. Then it got a very hurt tummy. The doctors at Nissan kept denying that there was a problem. Then Leaf's daddy went on TV with the lovely Heather Moore from KPHO CBS 5. Suddenly, little Leafy started getting lots of attention. Now Leafy's parents have been offered an all expenses paid trip for Leafy to their exclusive Nissan test facility in Casa Grande. The End.

--------------

In all seriousness, thanks for the help, everyone. As was also posted by one of our 3-bar losers, it appears as though Nissan is beginning to take this seriously. All the logged complaints, even from those who aren't really too hurt by the capacity loss yet. Those who helped us get the story on the news. And those we've been working with behind the scenes to work this from several angles. It has paid off and the ball is rolling!

Nissan has informed us that they want to take 5 or 6 of our cars (we were a little fuzzy on which it was) down to their test facility in Casa Grande, AZ and run some tests.

 

[Stoaty]

Nissan has informed us that they want to take 5 or 6 of our cars (we were a little fuzzy on which it was) down to their test facility in Casa Grande, AZ and run some tests.

Very good news! I have received feedback from several other people with case numbers and other information, which has been added to the Wiki in the Battery Capacity Loss section:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Keep those cards and letters coming. I think it is still a good idea for us to keep documenting this problem, and making sure that cases are opened for all those that are affected.

 

[padamson1]

Great news...albeit a little late.

This testing activity at Casa Grande is probably worth a new thread. I'm sure a lot of MNL reader's have given up on the 3+ threads on this topic. Maybe a title like "Nissan using our capacity lost LEAF's to evaluate temperature effects" or "Nissan blinks and offers to examine depleted LEAFs"

Hopefully they'll learn from these batteries and be able to take some corrective measures before the 2013 models are shipped. As someone mentioned on another thread it would be very un-Japanese to issue a statement that would imply loss of face, but a press statement like "We're surprised as any one what has been reported about capacity loss, so we're gonna roll up our sleeves and work with customers to solve the problem" would really go a long way. Of course there would have to be a follow-up documenting the resolution, but I think that's required anyway.

 

[tbleakne]

This is the $64k question for those outside the extreme temp areas. Under what conditions does heat exacerbate battery degradation??? Is it 24 hours worth of 100 degree weather and car parked on asphalt during the day? Until we know for sure, I'm playing it safe. If the temps are over 95, I'm taking the ice.

/[/,quote]
IMHO The loss is most likely a smooth but strong function of temperature, but not discontinuous, with no trigger. Higher temperatures combined with simultaneous high SOC accelerate the wall-clock aging. One extreme day like your example might be equivalent to 100 moderately warm days. We don't know.

The battery's large heat capacity smooths out sharp intervals of heat, so what counts is average temperature over some time constant T. Without an actual temperature gauge, it is hard to estimate what T is, but 4 to 6 hours seems reasonable.

 

[RickS]

Rick, did you re-lose your twelfth bar after the Nissan dealer reset it, or do you still have all 12 bars? (Sorry if you already answered this and I missed it!)

Yep, took all of six days and conveniently it was the first time the temperature gauge showed seven bars since the day it was reset. I also was doing 80% charges for the first couple of days. It seemed to be the full charges which made it's behavior stabilize. The Guess o meter was all over the place in the mean time.

 

[opossum]

The follow-up story on KPHO CBS Channel 5 will be airing tonight. Visit their website for live streaming of the newscast, for those who are not in the Phoenix market. I assume it will be the 10pm newscast.

 

[scottf200]

The follow-up story on KPHO CBS Channel 5 will be airing tonight. Visit their website for live streaming of the newscast, for those who are not in the Phoenix market. I assume it will be the 10pm newscast.

nissan-investigating-bad-batteries-in-arizona
Posted: Jul 20, 2012 10:10 PM CDT
Updated: Jul 20, 2012 10:34 PM CDT
http://www.kpho.com/story/19078685/nissan-investigating-bad-batteries-in-arizona" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They said they feel somewhat abandoned by the company they've supported.

"It's a pretty big deal to have your car completely change usefulness in a period of a few months, a brand new car," Leaf owner Andrea Convey said.

For now, they hope Nissan is listening and will turn over a new leaf.

Since the initial report earlier this week, Nissan has taken some big steps to investigate the problem. CBS 5 News is told they will be taking a half of a dozen cars to Casa Grande to conduct extensive testing starting next week.

In the meantime, the group tells us Nissan is providing them with loaner cars.

 

[Alric]

For now, they hope Nissan is listening and will turn over a new leaf.

Groan :x

 

[mwalsh]

Good to see that Nissan has finally made a positive move. Continuing to insist that this was "normal" behavior in the AZ cars was patently ridiculous.

 

[Lopton]

Continuing to insist that this was "normal" behavior in the AZ cars was patently ridiculous.

technically it would be "normal" behavior if all the cars in AZ are doing it :lol:

sorry, couldn't help the jab

-Matt