2012 Oct Plugin Sales Discussion : Volt 2,961 ; Leaf 1,579

[cwerdna]

Is anyone else surprised at how well the PIP is actually doing. The dealer here said that most Toyota dealers do not even stock this car yet.

For me the price seems pretty high for only a 15 mile EV range.

not surprised at the sales of the PiP, but am surprised that "most" of us consider the main selling point to be the EV range.

it is essentially a car that seats 4 comfortably and easily gets 60+ mpg for all driving types. most who want to are getting 80+ mpg. the reason for this is the synergy drive in the Prius where the gas and electric combine to hit the road running. its well known, undoubtedly reversed engineered by everyone and highly sought after solution...that no one has seemed to figure out yet. add to that a plug and you have HSD on steroids. it would be a major stretch to have thought the main reason to buy the Prius was to EV around...unless its to EV around the block...ONLY


it also qualifies for some BS status in CA for carpooling or something

That isn't entirely fair either being that the PiP isn't even available in many areas yet and CA is its biggest market even without the carpool stickers.

But I agree that the price is too high compared to a regular prius

The PiP qualifies for CA carpool lane stickers just as the Leaf does and other EVs and PHEVs that are clean enough (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. The PiP also qualifies for a $1,500 CVRP (http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Sure, the MSRP of the PiP seems high, but once you factor in the $2,500 Federal tax credit, $1,500 CVRP, carpool lane stickers, and incentives in some areas, it doesn't look that expensive compared to a comparably equipped regular Prius. Sure, it's not as low as the cheapest model of Prius available to consumers (Prius Two), but it's not so bad compared something w/more equipment.

From http://www.buyatoyota.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, if I put in the 95136 zip I see 0% financing WITH $1500 bonus cash (incentive). If I put in New York, NY, I see 0% financing WITH $3,500 bonus cash.

A regular Prius qualifies for no Federal incentives, no CA incentives nor CA carpool lane stickers.

 

[adric22]

the price can be high or can be low depending on what we compare the car to.

I'm comparing the car to the regular prius. We all know what the differences are. We know which parts they've added (bigger battery, charger, chart port, etc) and roughly how much those parts should cost. We also know which parts have been taken away such as the old NiMh battery, spare tire, etc. So I'm at a loss as to how they justify $7,000 difference between the PiP and a regular Prius. I could see $3,000 difference, maybe even $4,000. You'd think if they wanted the car to sell better, they'd sell it at the same profit margin as the regular prius. I think they are purposefully trying to limit sales of the vehicle.

 

[cwerdna]

the price can be high or can be low depending on what we compare the car to.

I'm comparing the car to the regular prius. We all know what the differences are. We know which parts they've added (bigger battery, charger, chart port, etc) and roughly how much those parts should cost. We also know which parts have been taken away such as the old NiMh battery, spare tire, etc. So I'm at a loss as to how they justify $7,000 difference between the PiP and a regular Prius. I could see $3,000 difference, maybe even $4,000. You'd think if they wanted the car to sell better, they'd sell it at the same profit margin as the regular prius. I think they are purposefully trying to limit sales of the vehicle.

Ok, compare http://www.toyota.com/prius-plug-in/trims-prices.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; at $32K - $2.5K (Fed) - $1.5K (CVRP) - $1.5 K (Toyota CA incentive) = $26.5K (yeah, sales taxes will make it higher though) vs. Prius Three at $25.5K (http://www.toyota.com/prius-hybrid/trims-prices.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

The base PiP has a few things that base Prius Three doesn't have like heated seats and remote climate.

 

[Norway]

Some news from Norway:

The Nissan Leaf is now number 13 on the car sales statistics for the entire country, up from number 16 last month.

:mrgreen:

 

[scottf200]

Some news from Norway: The Nissan Leaf is now number 13 on the car sales statistics for the entire country, up from number 16 last month. :mrgreen:

No surprise since paying less taxes and fees is very motivating.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1075773_2012-nissan-leaf-proves-a-big-hit-in-norway-heres-why" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While Norway doesn’t offer a tax rebate on the purchase of an electric car, it does exempt them from sales tax.

We're not just talking a few percent either: purchase taxes on new cars are governed by how large the car is, and its engine capacity. In some cases, purchase taxes can double the cost of buying a new car, meaning that an all-electric car could save from $5,000 to $40,000 in purchase taxes. By anyone's math, that's a substantial incentive that allows for plug-ins to make financial sense in this often-cold nation.

Exemption from sales tax isn't the only taxation benefit either: In addition, there are no annual road-tax fees, license fees or even public parking fees for electric cars.

 

[redLEAF]

Looks like Ford squeaked out 144 Ford C-Max Energi sales (limited release I'm sure) as well as 118 FFE's for the month of October ...


http://www.hybridcars.com/news/october-2012-dashboard-58806.html

 

[evnow]

Looks like Ford squeaked out 144 Ford C-Max Energi sales (limited release I'm sure) as well as 118 FFE's for the month of October ...

Wow - 144 Energis sold, but not a single review ?

 

[redLEAF]

Looks like Ford squeaked out 144 Ford C-Max Energi sales (limited release I'm sure) as well as 118 FFE's for the month of October ...

Wow - 144 Energis sold, but not a single review ?

I agree -- many publications have been waiting to review it so perhaps some coming but haven't seen ANY specific to the Energi other than the Ford rep talking in general terms of it at a static display of both.

 

[Norway]

Some news from Norway: The Nissan Leaf is now number 13 on the car sales statistics for the entire country, up from number 16 last month. :mrgreen:

No surprise since paying less taxes and fees is very motivating.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1075773_2012-nissan-leaf-proves-a-big-hit-in-norway-heres-why" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While Norway doesn’t offer a tax rebate on the purchase of an electric car, it does exempt them from sales tax.

We're not just talking a few percent either: purchase taxes on new cars are governed by how large the car is, and its engine capacity. In some cases, purchase taxes can double the cost of buying a new car, meaning that an all-electric car could save from $5,000 to $40,000 in purchase taxes. By anyone's math, that's a substantial incentive that allows for plug-ins to make financial sense in this often-cold nation.

Exemption from sales tax isn't the only taxation benefit either: In addition, there are no annual road-tax fees, license fees or even public parking fees for electric cars.

I think the saving is more substancial than that.

In addition, gasoline is roughly USD 10 per gallon.

We have (free) public charging stations over most of the country - over 500 just in Oslo.

Also, electric cars do not pay highway tolls, go free on ferrys, and we can drive in the bus lanes!

 

[Jay]

Looks like Ford squeaked out 144 Ford C-Max Energi sales (limited release I'm sure) as well as 118 FFE's for the month of October ...

Wow - 144 Energis sold, but not a single review ?

I agree -- many publications have been waiting to review it so perhaps some coming but haven't seen ANY specific to the Energi other than the Ford rep talking in general terms of it at a static display of both.

Nope, we are all scratching our heads on this one. Every outfit was going to run with it next week, and we ordered one/were intimated to get one of the first couple. Suddenly, Ford drops them everywhere at dealerships, no heads up. Kinda feels like when a bad movie is coming out, and the studio doesn't want anyone writing reviews until they get the first weekend's sales in the books...pretty sure that is not the case here, but frustrating nonetheless.

/just part of the business sometimes

 

[adric22]

Nope, we are all scratching our heads on this one. Every outfit was going to run with it next week, and we ordered one/were intimated to get one of the first couple. Suddenly, Ford drops them everywhere at dealerships, no heads up. Kinda feels like when a bad movie is coming out, and the studio doesn't want anyone writing reviews until they get the first weekend's sales in the books...

Hahaha.. I can see the similarity. But a movie makes most of its money the first weekend. I doubt selling 100-some-odd cars is going to make much difference on the books.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Looks like Ford squeaked out 144 Ford C-Max Energi sales (limited release I'm sure) as well as 118 FFE's for the month of October ...

Wow - 144 Energis sold, but not a single review ?

Fleet sales? Sales to dealerships that haven't been delivered yet but are still counted? It is odd.

 

[evnow]

Nope, we are all scratching our heads on this one. Every outfit was going to run with it next week, and we ordered one/were intimated to get one of the first couple. Suddenly, Ford drops them everywhere at dealerships, no heads up. Kinda feels like when a bad movie is coming out, and the studio doesn't want anyone writing reviews until they get the first weekend's sales in the books...pretty sure that is not the case here, but frustrating nonetheless.

/just part of the business sometimes

I can understand why Ford may delay the reviews/ads. They want the election to be over with.

Speaking of which, if anyone has anything to confess in public, do it Tuesday. Great day for a news dump.

 

[Jay]

Nope, we are all scratching our heads on this one. Every outfit was going to run with it next week, and we ordered one/were intimated to get one of the first couple. Suddenly, Ford drops them everywhere at dealerships, no heads up. Kinda feels like when a bad movie is coming out, and the studio doesn't want anyone writing reviews until they get the first weekend's sales in the books...pretty sure that is not the case here, but frustrating nonetheless.

/just part of the business sometimes

I can understand why Ford may delay the reviews/ads. They want the election to be over with.

Speaking of which, if anyone has anything to confess in public, do it Tuesday. Great day for a news dump.

Wait, there was an election? Missed it, I was busy watching Pawn Stars (and the word's boringest quartely result conference call off all time from Nissan...one guy at a podium (Shiga)...and in Japanese - 46 mins). I had a lot of dirty laundry to air out too.

 

[evnow]

Wait, there was an election? Missed it ...

Oh, you missed nothing. That was just a lesson in how to back back to where we started after $6 Billion ? Ofcourse, if you are a pot fan, you are welcome to my state ... we need your (sales) tax dollars.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Wait, there was an election? Missed it ...

Oh, you missed nothing. That was just a lesson in how to back back to where we started after $6 Billion ? Ofcourse, if you are a pot fan, you are welcome to my state ... we need your (sales) tax dollars.

LOL!!

oh i suppose R-74 (same sex marriage) passed so the state could gain more revenue from a greater pool of marriage license fees?

 

[navidad]

141 Leaf in France in October 2012.

 

[JPWhite]

The Volt is doing OK. If nothing else it's outselling most of the Cadillac models which are in its price range.

The Leaf not so much. Obviously Nissan needs to learn how to market the car more successfully. Personally I don't really understand why it has't been more successful. The Leaf may not be for everyone but lots of people could use an EV for local driving. Other than the loss of battery capacity, which is significant, I don't see any technical barriers to more widespread adoption.

Well when all of their marketing has been aimed towards the tree-hugging crowd, it is a no-brainer. Hopefully they'll figure out that other people like electric cars too and if you show them how fun it is to drive and how cheap it is to own, I think more people would switch. But when you advertise to the tree-huggers it makes everyone else think that owning an electric car is a bummer, but people are willing to do it for the cause.

+1

 

[JPWhite]

Here we go ...

Volt : 2,961
PlugInPrius : 1,889
Leaf : 1,579
Model S : 290 (est)
Energi : 144
Karma : 75 (est)
FFE : 112
Mitsu I : 30

CA Only
---------
Honda Fit : 16
RAV 4 EV : 47

Wonder if after Sandy they will count the 300 ruined Karma's as sales? They will get the money from the insurance, so essentially their insurance company (who will probably drop them) is buying 300 Karma's.

 

[TRONZ]

Actually Nissan could learn a bit from the boldness of Tesla. All the great press Tesla has been getting as of late is because magazine editors are being handed the fobs to Performance versions of the S. Nothing like having your face peeled back by the power of an EV to make anyone a believer!

Why Nissan is sitting still on EV performance AND scratching their heads at EV sales is beyond me. I will do "eye roll" :roll: because "beating head on wall" is missing.