Ok, I need more range. What mods can I make

[GetOffYourGas]

Isn't this the same Enginer that went out of business a month and a half ago? Or is this different?

Yes. I think Hill was being sarcastic. :roll:

-Phil

Given that the original poster has a total of 8 posts, I'm guessing that he wouldn't have caught this sarcasm either.

Has anyone endeavored to reverse-engineer this system (specifically how it provides power to the car)? I've read bits and pieces of it, but certainly not enough to try and build my own...

 

[Ingineer]

Has anyone endeavored to reverse-engineer this system (specifically how it provides power to the car)? I've read bits and pieces of it, but certainly not enough to try and build my own...

I know exactly how it works. It's a 48v Lithium-Polymer pack with a 5kW (max) DC-DC boost converter. It has it's own separate BMS and charger. When you turn it on, it dumps up to 5kW into the Leaf until either your turn it off, it runs the pack low, or the converter overheats. (Which it apparently often does)

The idea is ok, but the DC-DC converter is not that efficient, so you are taking a big hit there, plus all the extra stuff makes it heavy. In addition, it's build quality is pretty poor. All the components are Chinese, including the pack. The parts are not built for an automotive environment, so the vibration and temp cycling will kill them pretty fast.

The advantage of doing 48v, is that it keeps the cell count low, thus simplifying construction and things like BMS.

-Phil

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Has anyone endeavored to reverse-engineer this system (specifically how it provides power to the car)? I've read bits and pieces of it, but certainly not enough to try and build my own...

I know exactly how it works. It's a 48v Lithium-Polymer pack with a 5kW (max) DC-DC boost converter. It has it's own separate BMS and charger. When you turn it on, it dumps up to 5kW into the Leaf until either your turn it off, it runs the pack low, or the converter overheats. (Which it apparently often does)

The idea is ok, but the DC-DC converter is not that efficient, so you are taking a big hit there, plus all the extra stuff makes it heavy. In addition, it's build quality is pretty poor. All the components are Chinese, including the pack. The parts are not built for an automotive environment, so the vibration and temp cycling will kill them pretty fast.

The advantage of doing 48v, is that it keeps the cell count low, thus simplifying construction and things like BMS.

-Phil

I'm glad you know exactly how it works. However, your description here does not actually address my question. I don't want to hijack this thread (too late?). Then again, this is related to extending range.

So you have a 48V battery system, boosted up to 360 to match the Leaf. You say it "dumps up to 5kW into the Leaf". This is about a 100,000 foot view of what is going on. What is done with that power? It is routed into the inverter in parallel with the 24kWh battery? Is it somehow connected to the Leaf's BMS? Is there something else I'm missing?

 

[Nubo]

Start jogging, loose 10-20 pounds and the car will go farther on less energy.

Ride a bike, lose weight and discover you didn't need the car anyway :mrgreen:

 

[TonyWilliams]

What is done with that power? It is routed into the inverter in parallel with the 24kWh battery? Is it somehow connected to the Leaf's BMS? Is there something else I'm missing?

It goes into the LEAF battery and is physically connected at the LEAF rear mounted charger, where the 394 volt DC comes out. It does not in any where interact with the LEAF BMS.

48 volt DC is also the threshold to "power that will kill you", hence another reason so many electric car conversions use this as the upper limit.

There is a sizable conversion loss in the step up DC process, and more losses going into the LEAF battery, to then be extracted from the LEAF battery to power the car. Not very elegant, but simple.

http://www.enginer.us/wiki/tiki-index.php?page=Leaf+Installation+Manual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[garsh]

1. Seal off front grill in bumper during the winter when range is most affected by sub zero temperatures
2. Light aero rims and thinner low rolling resistance tyres
...

I think the best mod you can make is to stick an 18-wheeler about 3 car lengths in front of the hood.

Drafting gives a pretty noticeable efficiency boost at higher speeds where wind resistance is an issue.

 

[cra]

Reducing weight is to your benefit whenever you have to apply power to keep the speed or accelerate (such as when starting or climbing hills), but when the speed is there, weight actually works to your advantage, since air resistance has to try to slow down a greater mass (with the same shape and aerodynamics as if it happened to be stripped for internal parts).

So like others already said; reduced speed is the cheapest option, since it greatly reduces air resistance. Add to that improvements in driving style (whenever you touch the break you waste energy) there may be quite a bit to gain.

(Disclaimer: I don't know your driving style, so you may already be maxing out on that for all I know.)

 

[hill]

[Isn't this the same Enginer that went out of business a month and a half ago? Or is this different?

Sorry - I shoulda put one or two of these:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If I may toss out another flimsy idea, there's the ol' tuck in behind the semi truck technique. Pull out your militarygrade pnumatic bungi grappling hook. Right thru the back door. Works every time.

.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

[Isn't this the same Enginer that went out of business a month and a half ago? Or is this different?

Sorry - I shoulda put one or two of these:
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

If I may toss out another flimsy idea, there's the ol' tuck in behind the semi truck technique. Pull out your militarygrade pnumatic bungi grappling hook. Right thru the back door. Works every time.

.

Now there's a product I can get behind. Because I sure wouldn't want to be in front of it

 

[Hartleaf]

Never thought I would get such a good response. Am already using all the tricks in the trade. Drafting, keeping speed low at 55 when not drafting, trying to stay of the motorways, but as the daily commute is 72 miles most of it on the motorway, no charger available at work, at sub freezing temperatures I get home with only 10 miles on dash. I know that means approx 20 miles left, but it is just like too steassfull. In the summer all is fine as I get back with 20 miles and both red battery bars. If I could somehow get a 10-15 mile extension in range I would be happy.

Sounds like only way is via a 2013 Leaf or a Chevy Volt.

However being stubborn as a mule I might take on some mods to reduce weight and improve aerodynamics.

When will such mods become available. A serious few days research on the Internet and phone required.

 

[KevinSharpe]

no charger available at work

I'd push your employer on this.... many have 'sustainability' criteria and some pressure has yielded good results for many in the UK. Remember a £10 external 13A socket is all you need

Sounds like only way is via a 2013 Leaf or a Chevy Volt.

The ZOE would be a good fit for this commute.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If I could somehow get a 10-15 mile extension in range I would be happy.

Sounds like only way is via a 2013 Leaf or a Chevy Volt.

The 2013 LEAF will not have 10-15 more miles of range. Sorry.

Chevy Volt will burn oil everyday, if that's what you want.

 

[TonyWilliams]

no charger available at work

I'd push your employer on this.... many have 'sustainability' criteria and some pressure has yielded good results for many in the UK. Remember a £10 external 13A socket is all you need

Sounds like only way is via a 2013 Leaf or a Chevy Volt.

The ZOE would be a good fit for this commute.

I don't think Renault sells ANY cars in the USA (meaning no crash testing, emission testing, EPA economy and range ratings, etc).

The other point is pertinent: the employer need only offer a cheap electric outlet that YOU could offer to pay for. 120 volts on a 15 amp breaker will do it.

 

[KevinSharpe]

I don't think Renault sells ANY cars in the USA (meaning no crash testing, emission testing, EPA economy and range ratings, etc).

correct but the OP is from Manchester, UK

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't think Renault sells ANY cars in the USA (meaning no crash testing, emission testing, EPA economy and range ratings, etc).

correct but the OP is from Manchester, UK

That's what assuming gets me!!! What is the "real" range of a Zoe at 65 mph?

 

[KevinSharpe]

What is the "real" range of a Zoe at 65 mph?

We don't know yet because end customers won't have cars until early next year. However, the NEDC (New European Driving Cycle) range is 130 miles, whereas the Leaf's NEDC range is 109 miles.

One important factor might be the use of a heat pump in the ZOE for heating/cooling.

 

[Nubo]

Never thought I would get such a good response. Am already using all the tricks in the trade. Drafting, keeping speed low at 55 when not drafting, trying to stay of the motorways, but as the daily commute is 72 miles most of it on the motorway, no charger available at work, at sub freezing temperatures I get home with only 10 miles on dash. I know that means approx 20 miles left, but it is just like too steassfull. In the summer all is fine as I get back with 20 miles and both red battery bars. If I could somehow get a 10-15 mile extension in range I would be happy.

Sounds like only way is via a 2013 Leaf or a Chevy Volt.

However being stubborn as a mule I might take on some mods to reduce weight and improve aerodynamics.

When will such mods become available. A serious few days research on the Internet and phone required.

For steady-speed motorway driving, aero mods are your best bet, I'd think.

 

[smkettner]

At least set the tires to the max pressure shown on the sidewall.
Although getting a plug at work is best solution. Any normal outlet should be fine... no need for any special equipment.

 

[Herm]

In case you did not get the hint, visit Kevin Sharpe's web site:

http://www.zerocarbonworld.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I believe every Nissan dealer in the UK has a fast charger available for the public.. even 10 minutes there would give you a substantial boost.

 

[planet4ever]

at sub freezing temperatures I get home with only 10 miles on dash. I know that means approx 20 miles left, but it is just like too steassfull. In the summer all is fine as I get back with 20 miles and both red battery bars. If I could somehow get a 10-15 mile extension in range I would be happy.

Ah! So that's your problem. Have I ever got a cheap solution for you; you just need to work on your stress level.

• There are no "red battery bars" in the available charge gauge. Those apply only to the skinny capacity gauge bars.
• When you drop to two blue and white bars your "tank" is still nearly one third full!
• Dropping to the "Very Low Battery" warning is not going to be hard on your battery, though it's probably best not to go beyond that on a regular basis.
• You are not likely to be stuck at the side of the road. If you get below the (first) "Low Battery" warning just slow down (even to 20 or 30 mph if you have to) and you can make it.
• Relax! Pretend you've got all night to get home, and enjoy the evening sky, the music you are listening to, or whatever.

That prescription will give you 15 miles more, easy.

Ray