Official Tesla Model S thread

[LEAFfan]

When I won the Efficiency Rally back in May, I was curious (but never said anything) what award I had won. I just found out it will be a drive in the Organizer's wife's Tesla S85. :mrgreen:
It's a prize worth waiting for.

 

[EVDrive]

I'm happy that so many people on this forum are buying the Model S just like I am happy about all the Leaf sales. Getting of gas engines is expensive but so important for too many reasons to list. Some people buying either of these cars or any other car on the market will have buyers remorse. That is the reality of fickle consumers and early adopters in particular. Nothing new about that. Many of the people buying the S loved their Leaf but wanted more range and more style, I doubt many of those rationale people will be unhappy with their expensive Model S purchase.

I would buy the Tesla S 40 kWh if they offered quick charging. But Tesla is forcing everyone who wants quick charging to upgrade and pay $10k plus more. I don't agree with this and think it is shortsighted by Tesla but they are trying to make money and their tactic is working as 90% of Tesla customers are buying the bigger packs. I would love to buy their 60 kWh model but I can't rationalize spending that much. I have the money but I like having a cushion in the bank as well. I'll buy the first $50k 150 mile range EV on the market with quick charging. Until such a car exists, I'll continue to enjoy my Leaf and try to wait patiently until I can upgrade.

Hopefully something will come along soon or the 60 kWh S will look better and better.
I would buy the Rav 4 EV if it had quick charging. Fail on the part of Tesla and Toyota with the Rav 4 EV... Otherwise an awesome piece of engineering. They still don't understand the people don't want to pay $50k for a car that takes 4-8 hours to charge while out on the road. $%&#ing idiots in my opinion.

 

[Zythryn]

Possibly, but I don't think many people care all that much about quick charging.
Tesla is not offering quick charging on the 40kWh packs simply because the quick charge would damage the smaller packs if they actually used the full capability.
The car would automatically throttle down the speed of the charge so as to not overtax the battery pack. In two and a half years I have not once wanted a quick charge.
As for overnight charging, it makes no difference to me if it takes 4 hours or 8 as that is the same. I plug it in when I get home in the evening and unplug it, fully charged, in the morning.

And yes, I know some people do want quick charging. Which is why it is wonderful that we have competition in the marketplace. If quick charging in a 150 mile range EV is in greater demand than I think it is, then we shall find out when someone makes one and steals market share from Tesla

 

[Train]

Train is hardly a lone voice.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/tesla-" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... eid=yhoof2

This guy may just be another Debbie Downer but this article sure makes it sound like they are hanging by a thread. Who knows though, "friends in high places" may keep Tesla around for a long time to come at the largesse of the taxpayer.

Thanks for posting that, LT.

And this is all I was saying but some here are so sensitive. It's only prudent to look at what they're getting into and that's all I'm saying. Your accountant, a tax or investment advisor would tell you the same thing, it's silly to even consider pulling cash out of your 401K to pay for a $100,000 luxury car let alone from a company that is teetering right now. Wait until it's stable and let the guys who can really afford these cars get them ahead of you.

Everyone knows that Tesla is shaky at best, it appears, except for the financially naive who are buying out of pure emotion. I'm sure it hurts to hear that but we're adults. Sometimes it's hard to hear the truth.

I'm saying nothing more than it's an unwise financial decision to spend that much money on a car when your income isn't even remotely high enough.

But one can do whatever they want. It's their money. There are plenty of people renting right now because they got out of a reasonable mortgage and just had to have that 3000 sq foot house, double the monthly payment be damned.

"Hello...think McFly."

 

[Train]

You do realize a coordinated anti-tesla attack was launched today

Ahhh, my plan worked. :roll:

Muhahahahaha...

 

[Train]

Perhaps some better observation skills are needed as you are talking to some reservation holders, orders, and owners.

Late to the party, Jim. I'm well aware they're reservation holders, hence the advice.

 

[evnow]

Yes sir, the short sellers are getting mighty desperate and panicked these days. You do realize a coordinated anti-tesla attack was launched today... just a coincidence? Hardly, TSLA broke a new recent high yesterday. There are tremendous short positions in TSLA, they are taking a BEAT down right now.

+1.

BTW, last time they did manage to bring down TSLA price ... lets see what happens this time.

 

[surfingslovak]

But one can do whatever they want. It's their money.

Thank you, that's exactly right. As to your warnings and advice, I think it's prudent to take a more sober look at the industry as a whole, and contemplate couple of what-if scenarios. It looks like most of the early adopters have done that, and they don't need your well-meaning advice. On the contrary, when you say something, it could come across as if you were talking down to a well-informed group out of sheer antagonism. That said, quite a few Leaf owners expected better performance from their battery, than what they got, especially in warmer climes. In this particular case, the informed lessees had much less risk to bear than the buyers. This could be an important angle for Model S customers as well. Personally, I would prefer to lease from here on out, and Tesla is not offering that option yet. That would be my only concern and criticism. The 60 kWh model does indeed look better and better by the day, especially when considering the alternatives.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tesla is not offering quick charging on the 40kWh packs simply because the quick charge would damage the smaller packs if they actually used the full capability.

So, is 48kW into the LEAF 24kWh pack OK? (2C charge rate)

If so, I tend to believe that 90kW into a 40kWh pack will be OK, too. The reason they are not offering it is not a technical one.

Plus, ANY charger applies the charge rate requested, and during the charge, that changes (at about 50% SOC on the LEAF when it starts decreasing from 120 amps during quick charge).

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes sir, the short sellers are getting mighty desperate and panicked these days. You do realize a coordinated anti-tesla attack was launched today... just a coincidence? Hardly, TSLA broke a new recent high yesterday. There are tremendous short positions in TSLA, they are taking a BEAT down right now.

+1.

BTW, last time they did manage to bring down TSLA price ... lets see what happens this time.

I made a crap load of money on that one, when I bought around $26 and ran it up to about $34. Thank you panicking investors!!!

:twisted:

 

[TonyWilliams]

This is probably a question for the Tesla forum, but does anybody know if the advertised pack size is usable kWh or something else (like the 24kWh Nissan "advertises").

On the Rav4 (with Tesla battery), it is published at 41.8kWh usable, and they are right on the money. The actual pack size is around 50kWh.

Which is why I ask... could the 40kWh actually be about 30kWh usable?

85kWh * 3 miles per kWh equals 255 miles, so that looks quite "usable".

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Tesla is not offering quick charging on the 40kWh packs simply because the quick charge would damage the smaller packs if they actually used the full capability.

So, is 48kW into the LEAF 24kWh pack OK? (2C charge rate)

If so, I tend to believe that 90kW into a 40kWh pack will be OK, too. The reason they are not offering it is not a technical one.

Plus, ANY charger applies the charge rate requested, and during the charge, that changes (at about 50% SOC on the LEAF when it starts decreasing from 120 amps during quick charge).

this noise about charging rate and pack size is nothing more than advertising flux designed to sell the larger pack and nothing more.

we all know that the charge rate that is possible has NOTHING to do with what it is charging since the BMS on the pack will control the flow. so whether its a 40 Kw pack or a 4 Kw pack it does not matter.

what does matter is the limited quick charge network and the very real problem of them being jammed up by S 40's...

 

[surfingslovak]

this noise about charging rate and pack size is nothing more than advertising flux designed to sell the larger pack and nothing more.

we all know that the charge rate that is possible has NOTHING to do with what it is charging since the BMS on the pack will control the flow. so whether its a 40 Kw pack or a 4 Kw pack it does not matter.

Several of us suggested on the Tesla forum early on that the decision not to support super charging on the base model had most likely a business reason, not a technical one. At this point, if I had to guess, I would say that it might have something to do with the density and cost of the super charger network, and potentially also with battery warranty. The 40 kWh pack would get cycled 50% more than the 60 kWh pack, and more than 100% when compared to the 85 kWh pack.

 

[EVDrive]

Tony is definitely right. The technical problem of quick charging a 40 kWh hour pack is not the issue as long as you don't try to charge a 40 kWh pack with a 120 kw charger at full output all the way to full. Dial it down to 30 kWh and even further after 80% and it is a non issue.

Possibly, but I don't think many people care all that much about quick charging.
Tesla is not offering quick charging on the 40kWh packs simply because the quick charge would damage the smaller packs if they actually used the full capability.

Maybe you haven't talked to the masses of people who want to buy an EV but have range anxiety. I have. The current EV state is like this. Hey it's just like your gas car but you have to wait 4-8 hours to recharge and then you can go 50 miles if you can find a place to fill up on the road. Haha. Wouldn't Americans all love to turn their 10 minutes at the gas pump into a 4 - 8 hour stop. Come on think about it. Just because you never leave your comfort zone... For widespread adoption, we need EVs to be reliable, quick to charge , have a decent range, have a quick charge infrastructure in place, look good and be affordable. Achieving those benchmarks is the game changer and that is the game that Tesla and Nissan are competing in and that the other manufacturers are trying to decide if they need to get into the game yet or if they can delay for another 100 years.

Glad it meets your needs to charge at home. Not me, I quick charge a few times a month and love leaving my ice at home when I want to wander a little further from home. 50% of my charging is done at home and I do love the convenience as would most Americans when they go EV.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

is there a real issue with the charge rate other than the temperatures that are generated? i think not.

so as long as TMS is effective, the charge rate whether fast or slow should not matter significantly? or does it?

and if it does, why cant we use the BMS sytem that testers use when they cycle the pack an equivalent of several hundred thousand miles in a few weeks?

either way, we all know that the 50 KW rate of charge on a LEAF lasts about 5 minutes and its all downhill from there.

 

[mitch672]

This is probably a question for the Tesla forum, but does anybody know if the advertised pack size is usable kWh or something else (like the 24kWh Nissan "advertises").

On the Rav4 (with Tesla battery), it is published at 41.8kWh usable, and they are right on the money. The actual pack size is around 50kWh.

Which is why I ask... could the 40kWh actually be about 30kWh usable?

85kWh * 3 miles per kWh equals 255 miles, so that looks quite "usable".

Tony, "Cinergi" (Ben) from the TMC forum brought his 85KW Signature Model S over my place last Sunday. The Model S has 2 charge levels, "Standard" and "Range". In Standard, his Model S was showing 241 miles on a full charge, the represents %85 of the packs total capacity. If you need extra range, you can change the charge to "Range", where it will charge very close to %100 pack capacity.
We all know its best to avoid %100 SOC often, but if you need it, it's their. Also he was showing about 351 Wh/mile, not sure if he's has a heavy foot or not, but this about 3 miles/KW. Also when the Model S shows you the remaing range, it has "Predicted" (which is based on our driving style/past 30 miles of driving), and there is also "Rated" (they may have renamed test w/ the 4.0 software update)

(Note: we did put air in his tires before he left....)

Anyway, here is a picture of his dashboard, we had just switched it to "Max Range" mode, we where testing my 75A OpenEVSE

Once we switched it to "Max Range", it was going to take it 40 minutes to reach the near %100 SOC (about 265 miles he tells me)

 

[mkjayakumar]

Tony,

I am fairly certain I have read in the TMC forum that a full (range) charge in an 85 kWh is only 81 kWh of usable charge. That is after a full range charge, once you expend 81 kWh you car stops dead.

Of course that is my understanding. Let me dig it up and post it here.

 

[mitch672]

Travel enabled from Boston, MA to Washington, DC

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/tesla-begins-east-cost-fast-charging-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[ebill3]

Travel enabled from Boston, MA to Washington, DC

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/tesla-begins-east-cost-fast-charging-corridor/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Way neat!
Now, out here, how about crossing the Columbia?

Bill

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

"we can't forbid..."
This is simply wrong