Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[lorenfb]

Tesla did pretty much zero marketing on the 3. The don't position it, they don't officially segment it yet some here act as though there is a full campaign to sell and segment it to the other cars in the line. Complete nonsense.

When Tesla set the M3's price, features, and availability, that's called positioning a product. When Apple sells the iPhone 8 for about
$700-$800 (depending on memory) with basically from stock delivery, and sells iPhone X for $1000 with limited delivery, that's called
product positioning. When Apple introduced the low-end iPhone 5 (plastic) with limited memory at a lower price than the regular 5,
that's was product positioning. When any firm's marketing department defines a product's features, form-factor, price, and delivery
options, that's called positioning a product against other products in the marketplace.

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Tesla did pretty much zero marketing on the 3. The don't position it, they don't officially segment it yet some here act as though there is a full campaign to sell and segment it to the other cars in the line. Complete nonsense.

When Tesla set the M3's price, features, and availability, that's called positioning a product. When Apple sells the iPhone 8 for about
$700-$800 (depending on memory) with basically from stock delivery, and sells iPhone X for $1000 with limited delivery, that's called
product positioning. When Apple introduced the low-end iPhone 5 (plastic) with limited memory at a lower price than the regular 5,
that's was product positioning. When any firm's marketing department defines a product's features, form-factor, price, and delivery
options, that's called positioning a product against other products in the marketplace.

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

You implied they positioned it as a lower cost S and they did not. Price and features alone do not dictate that but nice try. Every company sets price and features yet they also usually set segments with specific marketing an positioning. Because you think everyone believes its a lower cost S does not make it so just as a BMW 3 is not a lower cost 7. You also say its a luxury car, it is not nor do they position it that way. Clearly stiff suspension is a luxury marketing position. I suppose the Bolt is the update of the EV1 right? All Porsche models are just lower cost versions of the others? In fact the 3 is a massive departure from the present S not in cost alone but one key factor almost everyone misses and you have never mentioned. Can you guess? This will be evident in one of the next big Tesla reveals.

 

[Zythryn]

...

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

Only coincidentally. Their target was not other BEVs, it was entry level luxury cars such as the BMW 3 series.

 

[EVDRIVER]

...

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

Only coincidentally. Their target was not other BEVs, it was entry level luxury cars such as the BMW 3 series.

"Luxury sports sedans" not "luxury cars".

 

[lorenfb]

When Tesla set the M3's price, features, and availability, that's called positioning a product. When Apple sells the iPhone 8 for about
$700-$800 (depending on memory) with basically from stock delivery, and sells iPhone X for $1000 with limited delivery, that's called
product positioning. When Apple introduced the low-end iPhone 5 (plastic) with limited memory at a lower price than the regular 5,
that's was product positioning. When any firm's marketing department defines a product's features, form-factor, price, and delivery
options, that's called positioning a product against other products in the marketplace.

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

You implied they positioned it as a lower cost S and they did not. Price and features alone do not dictate that but nice try. Every company sets price and features yet they also usually set segments with specific marketing an positioning. Because you think everyone believes its a lower cost S does not make it so just as a BMW 3 is not a lower cost 7. You also say its a luxury car, it is not nor do they position it that way. Clearly stiff suspension is a luxury marketing position. I suppose the Bolt is the update of the EV1 right? All Porsche models are just lower cost versions of the others? In fact the 3 is a massive departure from the present S not in cost alone but one key factor almost everyone misses and you have never mentioned. Can you guess? This will be evident in one of the next big Tesla reveals.

Sorry you don't understand basic marketing!

 

[EVDRIVER]

When Tesla set the M3's price, features, and availability, that's called positioning a product. When Apple sells the iPhone 8 for about
$700-$800 (depending on memory) with basically from stock delivery, and sells iPhone X for $1000 with limited delivery, that's called
product positioning. When Apple introduced the low-end iPhone 5 (plastic) with limited memory at a lower price than the regular 5,
that's was product positioning. When any firm's marketing department defines a product's features, form-factor, price, and delivery
options, that's called positioning a product against other products in the marketplace.

Yes, Tesla didn't do the typical sales/marketing program, e.g. ads, promos, TV spots, etc., but when they designed the M3 with its
features/options, and priced it ($35K), they positioned the M3 in the marketplace against other BEV products, e.g. the Bolt,
whether Tesla's marketing department or posters on this thread acknowledge that or not.

You implied they positioned it as a lower cost S and they did not. Price and features alone do not dictate that but nice try. Every company sets price and features yet they also usually set segments with specific marketing an positioning. Because you think everyone believes its a lower cost S does not make it so just as a BMW 3 is not a lower cost 7. You also say its a luxury car, it is not nor do they position it that way. Clearly stiff suspension is a luxury marketing position. I suppose the Bolt is the update of the EV1 right? All Porsche models are just lower cost versions of the others? In fact the 3 is a massive departure from the present S not in cost alone but one key factor almost everyone misses and you have never mentioned. Can you guess? This will be evident in one of the next big Tesla reveals.

Sorry you don't understand basic marketing!

Clearly that and Tesla are your areas of expertise, I stand corrected.

 

[lorenfb]

Example:
A hypothetical discussion between Elon and the VP of Marketing. (Tesla actually doesn't have one, so we'll use
Jerome Guillen - Vice President-Worldwide Services & Deliveries):

Elon:

Jerome, why did you position the M3 with features very similar to the MS, you know that'll impact sales of the MS which are now
slowing, and why did you position the M3 at a price of $35K, you know we'll lose money at that price?

Jerome:

Elon, my positioning strategy is basically a bate & switch strategy to take-out both the Bolt and Leaf 2. Once both GM and Nissan have
to lower their prices to be competitive with the M3 and thereby becoming major loss leaders for each, I plan to eliminate some of the
present M3 features and increase the base price of the M3 to $45K. At that time we'll have the new MS in production. In the near term,
I plan on delivering a small volume of the M3 with most all of the present M3 features at $35K to indicate to the reservation holders
that we are delivering M3s at $35K, thereby preventing any short term loss of reservations. So once the M3 delivery volume reaches
about 100K in early 2019 and both the Bolt and Leaf 2 will have failed, and my positioning strategy will change assuming we're still in business.
You can already see the effect of my strategy, as the 2017 Bolt sales have been very marginal at best.

Again, whether Tesla when thru a formal market analysis of what features and price the M3 should have, Tesla has in effect positioned
the M3 in the BEV market by its price ($35K) and features (very similar to MS as many reservation holders have perceived).

Get the meaning of product positioning, even though the example is a stretch?

 

[GRA]

Just in case anyone missed, it, MT's comparison test of the Bolt, LEAF and Model 3 has a nice comparison chart showing the levels of decel for each car using regen in the various modes, about 1/4 of the way through the article: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...rolet-bolt-ev-nissan-leaf-sl-one-pedal-wonder

 

[EVDRIVER]

Example:
A hypothetical discussion between Elon and the VP of Marketing. (Tesla actually doesn't have one, so we'll use
Jerome Guillen - Vice President-Worldwide Services & Deliveries):

Elon:

Jerome, why did you position the M3 with features very similar to the MS, you know that'll impact sales of the MS which are now
slowing, and why did you position the M3 at a price of $35K, you know we'll lose money at that price?

Jerome:

Elon, my positioning strategy is basically a bate & switch strategy to take-out both the Bolt and Leaf 2. Once both GM and Nissan have
to lower their prices to be competitive with the M3 and thereby becoming major loss leaders for each, I plan to eliminate some of the
present M3 features and increase the base price of the M3 to $45K. At that time we'll have the new MS in production. In the near term,
I plan on delivering a small volume of the M3 with most all of the present M3 features at $35K to indicate to the reservation holders
that we are delivering M3s at $35K, thereby preventing any short term loss of reservations. So once the M3 delivery volume reaches
about 100K in early 2019 and both the Bolt and Leaf 2 will have failed, and my positioning strategy will change assuming we're still in business.
You can already see the effect of my strategy, as the 2017 Bolt sales have been very marginal at best.

Again, whether Tesla when thru a formal market analysis of what features and price the M3 should have, Tesla has in effect positioned
the M3 in the BEV market by its price ($35K) and features (very similar to MS as many reservation holders have perceived).

Get the meaning of product positioning, even though the example is a stretch?

More tin foil please..

 

[lpickup]

You can already see the effect of my strategy, as the 2017 Bolt sales have been very marginal at best.

So wait...your definition of "very marginal at best" is a car that was nominally only on sale nationwide for 6 months, yet somehow managed to post 23,297 US sales for 2017, a mark only beat by 3 other cars:

Tesla Model S in 2017, 2016, 2015
Chevy Volt in 2016 and (barely--by about 160 cars) in 2012
Nissan LEAF in 2013

Sorry, that's why it's hard to take what you say seriously even if you happen to have what might otherwise be valid points.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Just in case anyone missed, it, MT's comparison test of the Bolt, LEAF and Model 3 has a nice comparison chart showing the levels of decel for each car using regen in the various modes, about 1/4 of the way through the article: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/tesl...rolet-bolt-ev-nissan-leaf-sl-one-pedal-wonder

FWD can always be allocated more regen than RWD with all conditions being equal. Also blended braking and regen are two different things, you can do off pedal stopping with absolutely no regen with blended braking making this a "feature". I think Nissan is using far too much blended braking than needed because they are more conservative in the way they implement overall regen. I drove the very first EV with the first prototype Tesla drive and a slider on the dash, on 100% regen I could come to about a full stop from 70 with no brakes at all but it's a crazy experience for most people.

On a standard model Tesla the regen could easily stop the car but these regen curves are usually tailored for a better overall driving experience without mechanical braking. Blended breaking comes in to fill the lower gap but sacrifices regen to give a "feature" and retain a more linear experience. I would not want my EV using the brakes to slow me in this regard as the regn still allows a good off pedal experience as is. There is also a higher use and reliance of software and mechanical devices to accomplish this vs traditional systems. Clearly any EV with a large enough motor can do this based on simple software settings as you can get the full regen based on the motors full output rating provided SOC and temp permit.

Those looking to consider a M3 with AWD get some significant benefits.

1) Incredible drive traction in all conditions and unreal snow traction.

2) Ability to have higher regen without wrestling with the coefficient of friction.

3) Improved handling with the benefit of yaw control and more evenly distributed regen braking. The new M3 has been proven to have unreal handling and an AWD version will be even better.

4) More even tire wear and distributed "braking" with higher regen levels. This distributes front braking loads to the rear.

 

[SageBrush]

I keep vacillating which Model 3 to buy but my latest choice is base+AWD.
I'm a huge fan of car safety, so I figure any marginal improvement in winter driving safety is worth it.

To anybody wondering: AWD in *addition to* snow tyres.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I keep vacillating which Model 3 to buy but my latest choice is base+AWD.
I'm a huge fan of car safety, so I figure any marginal improvement in winter driving safety is worth it.

To anybody wondering: AWD in *addition to* snow tyres.

The AWD in the snow with factory tires is better than my brothers 4WD tacoma in anything less than 12" of snow. In mud it's just incredible because of the weight distribution.

https://youtu.be/zapaqn6TLmw

 

[jlv]

Of course, AWD helps you get moving (well demonstrated by the above video). Snow tires help you stop and stay in control.

 

[lorenfb]

You can already see the effect of my strategy, as the 2017 Bolt sales have been very marginal at best.

So wait...your definition of "very marginal at best" is a car that was nominally only on sale nationwide for 6 months, yet somehow managed to post 23,297 US sales for 2017, a mark only beat by 3 other cars:

Tesla Model S in 2017, 2016, 2015
Chevy Volt in 2016 and (barely--by about 160 cars) in 2012
Nissan LEAF in 2013

Sorry, that's why it's hard to take what you say seriously even if you happen to have what might otherwise be valid points.

Have you forgotten that GM's guidance for the Bolt was 30K in 2017? Still, the Bolt is a very good BEV. If I hadn't bought my
Leaf's lease balance in 2016, I probably would have either leased a Bolt or bought one.

Again, in 2016 when Tesla announced the M3 and began taking reservations, the perception for many was that for $35K
one would be getting a lower cost MS with basically similar features. Given that perception in 2016 & 2017, why would one
want to consider the Bolt at basically the same price. This perception surely had some effect on Bolt sales in 2017.

 

[Zythryn]

Have you forgotten that GM's guidance for the Bolt was 30K in 2017? Still, the Bolt is a very good BEV. If I hadn't bought my
Leaf's lease balance in 2016, I probably would have either leased a Bolt or bought one.

Again, in 2016 when Tesla announced the M3 and began taking reservations, the perception for many was that for $35K
one would be getting a lower cost MS with basically similar features. Given that perception in 2016 & 2017, why would one
want to consider the Bolt at basically the same price. This perception surely had some effect on Bolt sales in 2017.

Not quite. As I recall, GM planned on 20-30k in 2017.
Do you have a reference?
You keep saying this about the “perception for many”. Tesla was thought, by many, to be anti-selling the 3. Ther have been very clear that the 3 isn’t just a small S.
Again, any references?

 

[GRA]

Have you forgotten that GM's guidance for the Bolt was 30K in 2017? Still, the Bolt is a very good BEV. If I hadn't bought my
Leaf's lease balance in 2016, I probably would have either leased a Bolt or bought one.

Again, in 2016 when Tesla announced the M3 and began taking reservations, the perception for many was that for $35K
one would be getting a lower cost MS with basically similar features. Given that perception in 2016 & 2017, why would one
want to consider the Bolt at basically the same price. This perception surely had some effect on Bolt sales in 2017.

Not quite. As I recall, GM planned on 20-30k in 2017.
Do you have a reference?

My memory is that they said they could produce up to 30k at the factory, depending the mix with the other car produced on that line. LGChem apparently were the ones who predicted 30k:

LG Chem Predicted 30,000 Chevy Bolt EV Sales In 2017, Did The Electric Car Come Close?

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/01...id-the-electric-car-come-close/#ixzz554FCmXuR

You keep saying this about the “perception for many”. Tesla was thought, by many, to be anti-selling the 3. Ther have been very clear that the 3 isn’t just a small S.
Again, any references?

It's always been clear that the target car was the BMW 3-series, i.e. entry-level luxury sports sedan. Elon said as much:

Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot

Or this, from 3 years ago at IEVS:

Op-Ed: Tesla Model 3 Is BMW 3 Series’ Unconventional Competitor

https://insideevs.com/op-ed-tesla-model-3-bmw-3-series-unconventional-competitor/

 

[Zythryn]

Have you forgotten that GM's guidance for the Bolt was 30K in 2017? Still, the Bolt is a very good BEV. If I hadn't bought my
Leaf's lease balance in 2016, I probably would have either leased a Bolt or bought one.

Again, in 2016 when Tesla announced the M3 and began taking reservations, the perception for many was that for $35K
one would be getting a lower cost MS with basically similar features. Given that perception in 2016 & 2017, why would one
want to consider the Bolt at basically the same price. This perception surely had some effect on Bolt sales in 2017.

Not quite. As I recall, GM planned on 20-30k in 2017.
Do you have a reference?

My memory is that they said they could produce up to 30k at the factory, depending the mix with the other car produced on that line. LGChem apparently were the ones who predicted 30k:

LG Chem Predicted 30,000 Chevy Bolt EV Sales In 2017, Did The Electric Car Come Close?

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/01...id-the-electric-car-come-close/#ixzz554FCmXuR

You keep saying this about the “perception for many”. Tesla was thought, by many, to be anti-selling the 3. Ther have been very clear that the 3 isn’t just a small S.
Again, any references?

It's always been clear that the target car was the BMW 3-series, i.e. entry-level luxury sports sedan. Elon said as much:

Sorta. Model 3 is like a BMW 3 series or Audi A4. Model S is like BMW 5 and 6 series, but much faster, more storage space + Autopilot

Or this, from 3 years ago at IEVS:

Op-Ed: Tesla Model 3 Is BMW 3 Series’ Unconventional Competitor

https://insideevs.com/op-ed-tesla-model-3-bmw-3-series-unconventional-competitor/

Thanks!

So on the first point, GM didn’t predict 30,000 sales, LG did.

On the second, is a BMW-3 series simply a smaller, less expensive, BMW-7 series? In the same way, I would concur that a Model 3 is simply a smaller, less expensive, Model S.
I think both qualifications are overly simplified.

I do agree that the Model 3 has been positioned as an entry level luxury sedan. I don’t agree with the qualification that people are simply expecting a less expensive, smaller Model S.

 

[lorenfb]

It's always been clear that the target car was the BMW 3-series, i.e. entry-level luxury sports sedan. Elon said as much:

Right, because Elon said so, please!

The price being quoted of $35K for a M3 is WHAT defines its market position and NOT what Elon says, i.e. the M3 at $35K was positioned
as an entry level BEV. The M3 entry was to re-define what the low end BEV market needed to be and to compete with GM & Nissan products.
Coincidentally, the present entry level BEV market and the entry level BMW 3 series overlap. And so what, the Nissan Maxima price starts
at about $35K too. Again, it's the perception of what the M3 priced at $35K when introduced in 2016 was, that resulted in the initial +400K
reservations and not what Elon said its market position was the time.

 

[lorenfb]

I don’t agree with the qualification that people are simply expecting a less expensive, smaller Model S.

You obviously haven't read numerous comments from reservation holders or from those that have received an M3 delivery.
Obviously, it's not just a smaller MS, but it does have many of the key features of the MS that many value.
And what do you thing that the +400K reservation holders perceived that they were to get for $35K?

Maybe give some thought into differentiating the two Tesla products as some of the +400K reservation holders did
when the M3 was announced in 2016. Had many previously considered buying a MS before the intro of the M3?