Official California PG&E Thread

[DeaneG]

I just got off the phone with PG&E and he told me I should wait on getting my second meter installed. There "may be" a change in policy announced the first week of December that will qualify me for the 9b rate without the cost of adding a second meter or panel..

That would be reasonable and forward-thinking... hope it's true...my smartmeter waits for the software.

 

[DaveEV]

With the current E1 NEMS rates, I estimate that if I don't change to a 9a or 9b rate, I'll be paying approx 12 cents per kwh with the Leaf. This sounds good to me, but PG&E won't let me keep my current rate.

How will they know if you're just plugging in using the 120V EVSE?

 

[EVDRIVER]

With the current E1 NEMS rates, I estimate that if I don't change to a 9a or 9b rate, I'll be paying approx 12 cents per kwh with the Leaf. This sounds good to me, but PG&E won't let me keep my current rate.

How will they know if you're just plugging in using the 120V EVSE?

I don't see how PGE would even know if anyone has an EV at all, the only way is if the city notified then via the permit process and that is a bit hard to believe. I won't pull a permit to do an EVSE and I'm not going to call PGE and tell them I have an EV, I have had them for a long time with no issue.

 

[DeaneG]

...I'm not going to call PGE and tell them I have an EV, I have had them for a long time with no issue.

As long as you haven't had any problems operating your EVs on "refrigerator" and "TV" electrons. I heard that electric vehicles run noticeably better on "EV" electrons.

 

[greenleaf]

...I'm not going to call PGE and tell them I have an EV, I have had them for a long time with no issue.

As long as you haven't had any problems operating your EVs on "refrigerator" and "TV" electrons. I heard that electric vehicles run noticeably better on "EV" electrons.

LOL. I also heard that the only way to get "EV electrons" is through a E9B meter. Electrons flowing the E9B meter are "optimized" for EV cars. Electrons from a regular outlet fare worse.

 

[EVDRIVER]

...I'm not going to call PGE and tell them I have an EV, I have had them for a long time with no issue.

As long as you haven't had any problems operating your EVs on "refrigerator" and "TV" electrons. I heard that electric vehicles run noticeably better on "EV" electrons.

LOL. I also heard that the only way to get EV electrons is through a E9B meter. Electrons flowing the E9B meter are "optimized" for EV cars. Electrons from a regular outlet fare worse.

Compromises

 

[planet4ever]

How will they know if you're just plugging in using the 120V EVSE?

I guess in theory there could be some executive order that the DMV must notify the PUC whenever an EV is registered in the state. Or, if you plan to get the $5000 rebate, CARB might notify the PUC. The PUC is already involved in ratemaking, so it might well pass information on to the utilities.

Personally, I'm still debating whether that 6 cent starting price on E9 from midnight to 7 AM, combined with my solar system, might make E9 better than my current E6 in the long run.

 

[EVDRIVER]

How will they know if you're just plugging in using the 120V EVSE?

I guess in theory there could be some executive order that the DMV must notify the PUC whenever an EV is registered in the state. Or, if you plan to get the $5000 rebate, CARB might notify the PUC. The PUC is already involved in ratemaking, so it might well pass information on to the utilities.

Personally, I'm still debating whether that 6 cent starting price on E9 from midnight to 7 AM, combined with my solar system, might make E9 better than my current E6 in the long run.

You give the dmv far to much credit and competence. In addition the vehicle may not be located there, etc. Highly unlikely and good luck on PGE enforcing or knowing anything.

 

[Rat]

As I stated earlier in this thread, the PG&E clean air hotline guy told me no one would ever make me change to E9. However, now that I understand the rates better, I don't see why anyone in my area would not want to (Fresno sounds different with its high heat). Since Nov. 1 there is no peak rate. The regular E-9A base rate and partial peak rate are both lower than my current regular rate, so the bill has to go down. In the summer when the peak rate kicks in again, it does go up higher, but we don't have A/C and our usage during peak times is moderate, although we are home then. As I also said earlier, though, this whole program is reportedly (by the PG&E rep at the Leaf test drive event) being shifted from HQ to the field offices, so I don't think anyone can guarantee much of anything, as different managers or technicians are going to interpret or enforce things differently. I believe the law does say EV owners must change to E9, even if it is not enforced.

 

[greenleaf]

There is an additional monthly fee of ~$6.60 per month to go E9A compared to E1.

 

[Rat]

There is an additional monthly fee of ~$6.60 per month to go E9A compared to E1.

I didn't know that. It's still likely cheaper for me at least.

 

[planet4ever]

Yes, there is a meter charge on all of the TOU rates. It's about 22 cents/day on E9. I'm paying 25.3 cents/day right now on E6, so it would go down a dollar a month or so if I went to E9. Of course if I were to keep the house on E6 and get a second meter on E9-B for the car I'd have two meter charges (not that I'm considering doing that).

 

[greenleaf]

I just put up a solar PV system. At first, without much thought, I opted to go E6. But after looking at the details recently, I believe E1 is still better for me.

My system is sized to eliminate the 3rd tier and higher, which means that every kWh it generates is already going to save me $0.30 on E1.

On E6, the calculations are complicated to work out, having to deal with peak, part-peak, off-peak as well as weekdays and weekends differences. Also, to optimize on my usage, I would probably have to work into my schedule when I should do the dishes, run the dryer or even charge the Leaf etc. Convenience factor of E1 is worth something!

In addition, I don't see how I can save more than the $0.30 per kWh I have under E1 with E6. When I further found out about the $7.60 / month surcharge for E6, I made up my mind.

I am going to continue with E1.

 

[greenleaf]

I think a summary could be this:

If you have PV system (with or without EV) and it is sized to eliminate ALL your electricity needs, E6 is probably best.

If you have PV system (with or without EV) and it is sized to only eliminate the 3rd tier or higher of your electricity needs, E1 is probably best.

If you have EV but no PV system, E9 might work out well if you can charge the car at night and have minimal electricity needs in the daytime.

 

[planet4ever]

I can't really argue with greenleaf's rules. Even with my PV system, which covers about 2/3 of our load, E6 is only slightly better than E1. The one variation I might suggest is that if you have a PV system and an EV you should consider E9. Charging your LEAF at 5 or 6 cents/kWh is a somewhat compelling thought. This is especially true if you plan to make heavy use of it, use that might push you back into tier 3 or even tier 4.

And, of course, you have two viable E9 choices: E9-A if you are willing and able to make some convenience tradeoffs in when you use electricity, or E9-B if you are not.

 

[greenleaf]

I just read this note from the electric schedule document:

Ongoing daily Time-of-Use (TOU) meter charges applicable to customers taking voluntary TOU service under this rate schedule will no longer be applied if the customer has a SmartMeter installed.

I guess this means that the surcharge ($6.60/month for E9A and $7.60/month for E6) would not apply if you have a SmartMeter?

 

[Long4Leaf]

A PG&E rep came out to my house (no PV) today and here is what I was told:

- As of today, the rule is you have to swith the E9A or E9B if you have an EV.
- There is a request in to allow customers to choose to stay on E1 it they want to. Expect an answer in December.
- If I install a second meter for E9B, it can only be used for charging an EV. But in practice there is nothing preventing me from plugging something else into the meter. (From our discussion, the "second meter can only be used for an EV" is to prevent second meters being added for unpermitted second residences like in-law quarters. Just my conclusion though.)
- PG&E will need to upgrade the drop wires coming from the pole.
- PG&E will need to upgrade the neighborhood transformer to make sure the extra load can be handled. (I assume this is because they need to accomodate the possibility that I might plug in my LEAF in the middle of some hot summer day at peak useage and be willing to pay the high cost.)
- I have a smart meter. When I want to make the switch to E9A, a tech will come out and re-program the meter for TOU. The meter does not need to be replaced. In theory, they can do this from the office, but because this is new, they want to send someone out to make sure nothing goes wrong.

 

[DaveEV]

- PG&E will need to upgrade the drop wires coming from the pole.
- PG&E will need to upgrade the neighborhood transformer to make sure the extra load can be handled. (I assume this is because they need to accomodate the possibility that I might plug in my LEAF in the middle of some hot summer day at peak useage and be willing to pay the high cost.)

Wow - how big is your service feed now? I have a hard time believing that adding 1 additional 3.3kW load to the system will affect anything... Now if a bunch of your neighbors did the same thing at the same time...

 

[EVDRIVER]

- PG&E will need to upgrade the drop wires coming from the pole.
- PG&E will need to upgrade the neighborhood transformer to make sure the extra load can be handled. (I assume this is because they need to accomodate the possibility that I might plug in my LEAF in the middle of some hot summer day at peak useage and be willing to pay the high cost.)

Wow - how big is your service feed now? I have a hard time believing that adding 1 additional 3.3kW load to the system will affect anything... Now if a bunch of your neighbors did the same thing at the same time...

Not to mention the transformer unless the area is not properly supplied. Most houses have a 200A line to the mast head standard. My neighbor went from a 150A service to a 600A service , no pole transformer changes.

 

[Long4Leaf]

Currently have a 200A service that was upgraded from 100A ~4 years ago, but they did not replace the drop wires then. I don't think the replacement is because of capacity, but because of age. Same thing with the transformer. I am in a old neighborhood (built in 1950's) and expect most houses are still with the 100A service. So upgrading the transformer I expect is also because of age and capacity margin.