Nissan To Install 500 More Quick Charge Stations

[smkettner]

Has Nissan even installed one QC yet? Not part of any program but actually NISSAN paying for the space, equipment and installation.

 

[SSS]

leafs

Exactly! Nissan sells Leafs in many CA areas but there are long gaps with no charging. So our Leaf is only a local car, even as good as it is. Perhaps we need to form a charging co-op with locations allowing us to link-up with the large population centers, allowing all to extend their EV travels.

 

[abasile]

Fontana Nissan (in Southern California) seems likely to get a Quick Charger. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=932&p=260547#p259286" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our dealership should be on this list unless something changes. As soon as we have the confirmation, we will post it here on this thread! <on the above-referenced thread, not this one>

And I would add that this is one of the necessary QC links between "Santa Barbara and Palm Springs".

 

[philipscoggins]

Has Nissan even installed one QC yet? Not part of any program but actually NISSAN paying for the space, equipment and installation.

They have 1 at their plant in Smyrna TN & 1 at Corp headquarters in Franklin TN. I've used the one in Smyrna, much easier to handle & use than the Blink stations, but didn't seem to charge as quickly.

Philip

 

[vrwl]

I'm sad to hear this is going to be part of the eVGo network. I refuse to sign up for a monthly charging plan when I may only use the chargers once or twice a month.

 

[OrientExpress]

I would like to say that I have had a reversal of thinking on the merits of the eVgo business model. While it may not make sense for those that live in a home where they can install their own L2 EVSE, and a monthly fee model for all you can eat of $50 ~$100 may seem overpriced, it is still brilliant, and if you are for increasing the adoption of EVs you should get behind it.

Why?

Because half of the potential market for EVs and the next wave of EV adoption will come from people that live in multi-family dwellings and have no ability to have a private charger, or on premiss charging. Right now, they are locked out of the EV market.

eVgo's initial business model is to have L2/L3 chargers every 5~10 miles in the top urban areas, so for someone that lives in an apartment or condo they can reliability find a charge station as part of their normal commute. Now sure the cost is twice what someone that has home charging might pay, but if you include the cost of EVSE facilities equipment, and the convenience, then it is a value. And folks in the 20 ~40 age bracket (which is where the next wave will come from) are perfectly comfortable with paying a premium for a service like this.

eVgo is the prototype of all future public charging, with the current hodgepodge of public charging in parking lots etc., being only a temporary solution, and not logistically sustainable. Remember, when ICE cars were first introduced 100 years ago, drivers would have to go to blacksmith shops or Apothecaries to buy bottles of gasoline by the pint. It took a while to establish dedicated stations to service these cars, and so it will be with EVs. I expect that by 2020, there will be a a fairly robust national network of dedicated charging stations, either as standalone facilities, or integrated into the existing fuel dispensing networks. And yes, there will still be charge stations in parking lots, but instead of 2~3 L2s over in the corner, there will be dedicated charging areas with 50 or more plugs!

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Makes sense, opening up the market to renters and condos, etc.

They have a $39/mon. Unlimited QC plan, and that would work pretty good.

I'm using about $50/month, but I have the luxury of a garage.

If I was a renter, I'd be interested in the monthly plan.

 

[smkettner]

I'm sad to hear this is going to be part of the eVGo network. I refuse to sign up for a monthly charging plan when I may only use the chargers once or twice a month.

This tells me Nissan is really installing zero. I wish Nissan would quit with the hipe and taking credit :roll:

 

[OrientExpress]

This tells me Nissan is really installing zero. I wish Nissan would quit with the hipe and taking credit :roll:

No, that is not the case. Nissan is installing their own branded chargers in specific locations, and is partnering with eVgo and their national rollout plan.

 

[Randy]

I'm sad to hear this is going to be part of the eVGo network. I refuse to sign up for a monthly charging plan when I may only use the chargers once or twice a month.

This tells me Nissan is really installing zero. I wish Nissan would quit with the hipe and taking credit :roll:

I have firsthand knowledge that work is proceeding with the Nissan equipment...It takes time, be patient...Site selection, permits, trenching/ hardscape, conduit, mounting, concrete/asphalt, wiring, equipment install, inspections, meters, testing, etc. It takes longer than you might think...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I guess i an different then because the convenience of charging in my garage Farr outweighs the cost of my EVSE

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I guess i an different then because the convenience of charging in my garage Farr outweighs the cost of my EVSE

Different from renters, for sure - they usually don't have a garage! But not different from me. At this point I forgo the free charging at work because the inconvenience of digging out the EVSE cable far outweighs the pennies per month I save. I'd rather charge at home where the EVSE stays mounted on the wall, and I simply plug it into the car and walk away.

That said, QC definitely opens a new world for me. Or it would if any of these chargers were going in around me. I'm really having my doubts that I'll see any QC stations within this decade, even with Nissan's push. It's still a rather exclusive list of locales that get to use this great feature.

 

[Publius]

Interestingly, just down the Thruway in the 5th largest city (Syracuse), we have a decent L2 infrastructure - at the mall, at another major shopping center, and downtown (walking distance to the restaurant/bar district). Trouble is, they cost $2.40/hr so almost nobody is using them.

However, as stated elsewhere, these QC stations make far more sense between cities. They should be halfway between Buffalo/Rochester, and Rochester/Syracuse. Then L2 should be deployed within the cities.

I would personally love to see a QC in Auburn, NY and Cortland, NY. These would greatly extend my range. The trouble is, they are small towns in mostly rural counties. Nissan is not likely to deploy anything there because not many live there. But thousands could be passing through, and that's what QC is for.

I'm still eagerly awaiting that list. March 31st? It can't come soon enough!

Sad as it is, I would love to have the option to pay $2.40/hr to get home if I need a few extra miles. Here in Rochester I've only found two public charge stations that aren't located at dealerships. One of the stations is at a local business, and the other was donated to the town community center by the same guy who provided the other one. Both are free, which is awesome, but they're close together, so unless you live in that town or go to a dealer, you're basically SOL. I'm waiting for the list from Nissan, and I'm also waiting on the details of the 300+ Level 2 stations being installed in NY this year. If I remember correctly Rochester is supposed to get 24 of those. What about Syracuse?

 

[LEAFer]

I would like to say that I have had a reversal of thinking on the merits of the eVgo business model. While it may not make sense for those that live in a home where they can install their own L2 EVSE, and a monthly fee model for all you can eat of $50 ~$100 may seem overpriced, it is still brilliant, and if you are for increasing the adoption of EVs you should get behind it.

Why?

Because half of the potential market for EVs and the next wave of EV adoption will come from people that live in multi-family dwellings and have no ability to have a private charger, or on premiss charging. Right now, they are locked out of the EV market.

Hmmm ... so you're saying for renters and multi-dwelling owners without home charging, the EVs are best served by the gas-station-model ! Except that it doesn't fill up as quick
Well ... more EVs are better ... :|

 

[RegGuheert]

I would like to say that I have had a reversal of thinking on the merits of the eVgo business model. While it may not make sense for those that live in a home where they can install their own L2 EVSE, and a monthly fee model for all you can eat of $50 ~$100 may seem overpriced, it is still brilliant, and if you are for increasing the adoption of EVs you should get behind it.

Why?

Because half of the potential market for EVs and the next wave of EV adoption will come from people that live in multi-family dwellings and have no ability to have a private charger, or on premiss charging. Right now, they are locked out of the EV market.

Considering that renters currently comprise only a small fraction of US EV owners at the current time, I will predict that eVgo will struggle to fit their "square peg" of a business model into the "round hole" of demand that currently exists. The EV market is small enough already without further constraining it with poor business practices.

As it is now, many will eschew their service, meaning that a very small subset of EV owners will be expected to somehow pay for this expensive network. The market always has the last say and IME eVgo will either adjust to what the market needs or they will fail. In other words, eVgo needs EV drivers to use (and pay for) their quick chargers more than EV drivers need eVgo's quick chargers. As it stands, we will simply take a gasoline vehicle to the areas that eVgo would open up to our LEAF because that is cheaper.

It is unfortunate that Nissan is wasting so much money investing in a quick charging network which will not meet the needs of many LEAF owners. This is an good example of how their experience with the Japanese market is clouding their judgment in the US market. This is also an example where the existing gas-station model makes real sense.

 

[tps]

half of the potential market for EVs and the next wave of EV adoption will come from people that live in multi-family dwellings and have no ability to have a private charger, or on premiss charging. Right now, they are locked out of the EV market.

eVgo's initial business model is to have L2/L3 chargers every 5~10 miles in the top urban areas, so for someone that lives in an apartment or condo they can reliability find a charge station as part of their normal commute.

IMHO, QC as an alternative to overnight charging is a temporary aberation, albeit possibly necessary, to the EV paradigm, which is that the EV should have the ability to charge whenever parked. Eventually, even those in multi-family dwellings will have the ability to charge overnight. But having the ability to QC whenever necessary is also part of the long term EV paradigm, however we need a flexible pricing model which includes both subscription and pay-per-use plans, so the user can pick the pricing model which works best for them. By offering subscription only, EVgo would be locking themselves out of selling to occasional use customers, which make up almost all of the current base of EV drivers, and IMHO will make up the almost all of EV drivers after the temporary aberation of no overnight charging for some potential drivers disappears.

 

[cwerdna]

half of the potential market for EVs and the next wave of EV adoption will come from people that live in multi-family dwellings and have no ability to have a private charger, or on premiss charging. Right now, they are locked out of the EV market.

eVgo's initial business model is to have L2/L3 chargers every 5~10 miles in the top urban areas, so for someone that lives in an apartment or condo they can reliability find a charge station as part of their normal commute.

IMHO, QC as an alternative to overnight charging is a temporary aberation, albeit possibly necessary, to the EV paradigm, which is that the EV should have the ability to charge whenever parked. Eventually, even those in multi-family dwellings will have the ability to charge overnight. But having the ability to QC whenever necessary is also part of the long term EV paradigm, however we need a flexible pricing model which includes both subscription and pay-per-use plans, so the user can pick the pricing model which works best for them....

Regarding the italicized part, what makes you so certain about that? When I lived in WA state, I lived in apartments the whole time, for over 9 years in total. Why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install charging stations? What's in it for them? Who would pay to fix broken and vandalized stations, esp. those damaged by copper thieves?

Re: cost to the user, it needs to be comparable to fueling an average ICEV. Better yet, it should be comparable to fueling an efficient ICEV (e.g. Prius). Otherwise, people aren't going to bother unless there's a sudden gas price shock, severe supply disruption or shortage, esp. a prolonged or permanent one.

 

[planet4ever]

Why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install charging stations? What's in it for them? Who would pay to fix broken and vandalized stations, esp. those damaged by copper thieves?

So, why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install TV cables in every unit or build kiddie parks? What's in it for them? You know perfectly well what is in it for them -- a higher rental price. As for vandalism, I'll bet a "Danger: High Voltage" sign would be quite effective. As would a gated community. Let's face it, it's going to be a decade or more before EVs become common in lower end multifamily units.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

Why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install charging stations? What's in it for them? Who would pay to fix broken and vandalized stations, esp. those damaged by copper thieves?

So, why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install TV cables in every unit or build kiddie parks? What's in it for them? You know perfectly well what is in it for them -- a higher rental price. As for vandalism, I'll bet a "Danger: High Voltage" sign would be quite effective. As would a gated community. Let's face it, it's going to be a decade or more before EVs become common in lower end multifamily units.

Ray

I'd think that cable TV wiring is a requirement for most apartment complexes, at least where there is cable. I lived in 3 different apartment complexes + 2 others (I think) as temporary or summer housing. All of them had cable.

FWIW, I last lived at a complex that had cable and later was "wired" (with fiber) for Verizon (later became Frontier) FiOS, so both were choices. I know the VZ FiOS was installed MANY years after the units were built but I'm not clear who paid. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a VZ capital expenditure and not one of the complex owners.

I did take advantage of it. I had VZ come and set me up (tech had to install an ONT that connected to some faceplate that said Verizon on it in my closet, run cable, drll holes, etc.) IIRC, the time estimate for the appointment was 3-4 hours. That was about how much time the tech spent (this doesn't include the unknown amount of work needed to "wire" the whole complex beforehand). I believe there was also a 1 year service commitment since it's rather expensive for the hardware (huge Motorola box w/fiber in, Ethernet port, 4 POTS ports, lead acid battery backup and coax port + a router w/coax in for MoCA) and the above labor.

When I last kept up w/VZ FiOS news, they stopped expanding their coverage. And, when I was in WA, Verizon shifted their FiOS, DSL and landline business for certain states like WA, OR to Frontier Communications. I wouldn't be surprised if FiOS simply wasn't profitable vs. their huge expenditures.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

It is unfortunate that Nissan is wasting so much money investing in a quick charging network which will not meet the needs of many LEAF owners. This is an good example of how their experience with the Japanese market is clouding their judgment in the US market. This is also an example where the existing gas-station model makes real sense.

I look at the success of the Japanese model in a much different way. Use Google Maps to get directions from Yokohama to Tokyo. The default settings NEVER mentions a car.

It does mention walking, taking a bus, the subway and high speed rail, but not a car. maybe its my settings but in the US, I map a route and its 100% car so I doubt my settings have anything to do with it. So, a successful car and charging system in the same area with HUGE transportation competition is a bit more telling than it first appears

Re: cost to the user, it needs to be comparable to fueling an average ICEV. Better yet, it should be comparable to fueling an efficient ICEV (e.g. Prius). Otherwise, people aren't going to bother unless there's a sudden gas price shock, severe supply disruption or shortage, esp. a prolonged or permanent one.

Wow, we have gone over this point so many times. Public charging should be MUCH more expensive than home charging. At home, you control 100% of the cost, maintenance, etc. what is your TCO so far? if you got a free charger and Solar, then ok, you are golden but that means you have means. Its no different than parking your RV in the backyard on a 5 acre farm verses my Nephew living in downtown Seattle and paying $275 a month to park his car. If you dont have the means, then you pay. Buy a bottle of water at 7-11. you thought gasoline was expensive?? you can get a case of water from Safeway for $3.50. Can only get 3 bottles at that price at 7-11. Once again, convenience.

I got the modded EVSE so my costs are low, but still part of the charging model. Some people I know who got "free" EVSEs still paid nearly $1000. So that is a surcharge of a buck a day for 3 years. Granted not much and if it never has problems then you are ok but what about the people who did have problems? Spent their free time on the phone with tech support, Customer Service, etc of Blink, GE and whoever?

all that is a non issue (or supposed to be) for public charging.

So, why would a landlord want to spend the $ to install TV cables in every unit or build kiddie parks? What's in it for them? You know perfectly well what is in it for them -- a higher rental price. As for vandalism, I'll bet a "Danger: High Voltage" sign would be quite effective. As would a gated community. Let's face it, it's going to be a decade or more before EVs become common in lower end multifamily units.

at least someone gets it! Right!! services rendered. The landlord is not (nor should they be) compelled to provide charging spots nor are they required to provide nearly anything else other than basic functional living quarters. There is no "cable" law I am aware of.

But I did live in condo in West Oly where a garage was available for additional cost (90+ apts, only 10 garages) as was on site storage (in basement) all were additional charges on the rent and were all limited availability.

but if moving and you have an EV, how much would you pay for the privilege? It would obviously vary quite a bit and separate metering would be ideal but at a higher expense to the landlord so probably unlikely but around here, $40 might ber reasonable. I have gotten up to $36 a month on heavy driving months (average about $25-29) on Green Power (1.25 cents higher but all renewable energy)

All in all, Public charging will fill the role just like the scenario's above. There will be some who will pay a much higher "rental" charge due to lack of means. My nephew's parking fee? He was on a waiting list for over a year before getting that space. So, the price maybe high, but it does not seem to affect demand.

Bottled water can be overcome, but the thought of carrying a cooler around and restocking it with ice daily just does not seem worth it. i rather pay my $1.19 (ok, maybe a bad example. I am not a fan of plastic!...but its something nearly everyone can relate to!)