EVSE Plug Adaptors, Cords and Modifications Info

[GeekEV]

If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug.

Then, if the hot/neutral is miswired in the wall sockets, the adapter is much less likely "Blow Up".

And if you do plug them into two outlets on the same bus bar? Without detection circuitry, wouldn't that effectively create a short and pop the breaker? I guess that's harmless enough... Assuming the breaker works properly!

Taking a cue from Wayne, though, I don't think *I* would trust it on unknown outlets...

 

[mxp]

EVDRIVER had posted this link to a site which will build custom adapters in another thread, but I don't see it in this thread. So here it is:

http://www.stayonline.com/custom_power_cords.aspx

Note, though, that they won't build an adapter to the NEMA 10-x series (from the others) since it doesn't technically include a ground and the others do. However, from what I've been told by those in the know, it was standard practice with these old plugs to wire (what is labeled as) the neutral pin to ground, and the appliances would use it as both a ground and a neutral. So, you can make such an adapter by connecting ground to neutral on the NEMA 10-x series. And I can confirm that a certain modified EVSE does, indeed, work with such an adapter on my NEMA 10-x series dryer plug.

Hello Geek EV,

It was described by Ingineer that to extend the J1772 cord, one should "connectorize" - uh, not sure visually what that means,
Original comment here somewhere in the middle: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707&start=180

but why isn't it ok to splice and connect extra length cable using these joiners?
http://www.platt.com/product.aspx?zpid=286637

It is because it's a safety issue, or simply cost prohibitive to go the "splice and join" approach?

Thanks!

 

[GeekEV]

Sorry if I wasn't being clear, that was the general (rhetorical) you, not the personal you. Really I was just trying to say that at first glance, the modified pin won't be as safe as an unmodified pin, so I wouldn't do it.

I figured as much. I just wanted to be super clear... Paranoia, don'tcha know? Just out of curiosity, what is it about that that makes you nervous? What do you see as being the worst case scenario for trimming down the ground pin?

 

[GeekEV]

It was described by Ingineer that to extend the J1772 cord, one should "connectorize" - uh, not sure visually what that means
<snip>
but why isn't it ok to splice and connect extra length cable using these joiners?
<snip>
It is because it's a safety issue, or simply cost prohibitive to go the "splice and join" approach?

It probably is OK to splice add length, but I'm not *actually* an electrician or electrical engineer - I just play one on TV. :lol:

It certainly would be more flexible and upgradeable if you "connectorize" it, which is I think what Phil was going for.

 

[leafme]

...If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug. Then, if the hot/neutral is miswired in the wall sockets, the adapter is much less likely "Blow Up".

Good call Gary. I agree with you. We know how it was 'sposed to be wired but we never know how it was wired.

Malcolm

 

[wwhitney]

Right next to my 3-pin (old style) dryer socket, I have two duplex sockets (4 places to plug in), and one duplex socket is wired to Line1 and Neutral, the other duplex socket to Line2 and Neutral.

For your situation, it would be better to use a 10-30 to L6-20 adapter and the dryer socket. Or to modify your in wall wiring to add an L6-20 receptacle on the same circuit as the dryer.

If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug.

While this sort of adaptor would work if everything in the wall is wired correctly, I think the potential pitfalls of such a "dumb" adapter are too great and such adaptors are a bad idea.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug.

Then, if the hot/neutral is miswired in the wall sockets, the adapter is much less likely "Blow Up".

And if you do plug them into two outlets on the same bus bar? Without detection circuitry, wouldn't that effectively create a short and pop the breaker?

No, you'd just end up with a L6-20 receptacle with two hot at the same potential, so there would be 0V delivered to the EVSE.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Just out of curiosity, what is it about that that makes you nervous? What do you see as being the worst case scenario for trimming down the ground pin?

Worst case scenario: for some receptacle the neutral wipers are located such that on the trimmed down pin you get a poor connection (high resistance). Then you don't have a solid ground connection. [The 10-30/10-50 pin is a neutral pin which the modified EVSE is using as a ground.] Of course, there are other layers of safety (like the GFCI in the EVSE), but there are still scenarios that could result in a shock. So I'd rather not reduce any of the layers of safety.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

Are you suggesting doing this without a safety relay interlock? One 120V plug is "hot" in the wall and the other cord could be on the ground with a bare end that is hot. Someone picks it up and...

You forgot to add "the L6-20 receptacle end is lying in a pool of salty water, so that L1-L2 are shorted on the receptacle". Then you could have a hot bare plug, bad news.

If one were to make such an adapter, both 5-15 grounds should be connected to the L6-20 ground. Then it would slightly less dangerous; in the above scenario, you'd need to keep the ground slot on the L6-20 receptacle out of the salty water.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[EVDRIVER]

If you wire a "Sneaky" 2x120v-to-240v "adapter" cord yourself, for best safety, you should wire only 2 wires (the "hot" wire and the ground pin) from one 5-15 plug, and then ONLY ONE wire (the hot wire) from the other plug. DO NOT wire the Neutral wire from either plug.

Then, if the hot/neutral is miswired in the wall sockets, the adapter is much less likely "Blow Up".

And if you do plug them into two outlets on the same bus bar? Without detection circuitry, wouldn't that effectively create a short and pop the breaker? I guess that's harmless enough... Assuming the breaker works properly!

Taking a cue from Wayne, though, I don't think *I* would trust it on unknown outlets...

Let's be clear on this, this is a bad idea without an interlock as it can kill someone. With a load plugged in and one 120V out of the wall it is no different then a bare hot wire sitting on the floor, it's a cut open extension cord!

 

[Ingineer]

Just out of curiosity, what is it about that that makes you nervous? What do you see as being the worst case scenario for trimming down the ground pin?

Worst case scenario: for some receptacle the neutral wipers are located such that on the trimmed down pin you get a poor connection (high resistance). Then you don't have a solid ground connection. [The 10-30/10-50 pin is a neutral pin which the modified EVSE is using as a ground.] Of course, there are other layers of safety (like the GFCI in the EVSE), but there are still scenarios that could result in a shock. So I'd rather not reduce any of the layers of safety.

Cheers, Wayne

I don't see this as a possibility, as if the ground fails, the EVSE will immediately open the relays and everything will be safe. Also, before I came up with this mod, I checked all the different outlet types I could locate, (6) and all of them made firm connections to the ground even once trimmed.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

EVDRIVER had posted this link to a site which will build custom adapters in another thread, but I don't see it in this thread. So here it is:

http://www.stayonline.com/custom_power_cords.aspx

Note, though, that they won't build an adapter to the NEMA 10-x series (from the others) since it doesn't technically include a ground and the others do. However, from what I've been told by those in the know, it was standard practice with these old plugs to wire (what is labeled as) the neutral pin to ground, and the appliances would use it as both a ground and a neutral. So, you can make such an adapter by connecting ground to neutral on the NEMA 10-x series. And I can confirm that a certain modified EVSE does, indeed, work with such an adapter on my NEMA 10-x series dryer plug.

Hello Geek EV,

It was described by Ingineer that to extend the J1772 cord, one should "connectorize" - uh, not sure visually what that means,
Original comment here somewhere in the middle: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707&start=180

but why isn't it ok to splice and connect extra length cable using these joiners?
http://www.platt.com/product.aspx?zpid=286637

It is because it's a safety issue, or simply cost prohibitive to go the "splice and join" approach?

Thanks!

Yes, there is generally no safe way to splice the 4 conductor outdoor-rated cable. The electrical code does not permit splices, even in indoor wiring that is stationary, unless it's contained inside a junction box and has strain relief. Adding a customized twist-lock connector would be the safe way to do it, and this way you could quickly change back to a short cord anytime you wished.

 

[wwhitney]

Let's be clear on this, this is a bad idea without an interlock as it can kill someone. With a load plugged in and one 120V out of the wall it is no different then a bare hot wire sitting on the floor, it's a cut open extension cord!

Great point, that would be very dangerous and easy for someone uninformed to do.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

I don't see this as a possibility, as if the ground fails, the EVSE will immediately open the relays and everything will be safe. Also, before I came up with this mod, I checked all the different outlet types I could locate, (6) and all of them made firm connections to the ground even once trimmed.

Hi Phil,

Certainly the EGC and the GFCI are separate redundant layers of safety. I'm just not comfortable weakening the EGC safety layer, even a little. While it may be unlikely the modified pin will perform less well than the original pin, we can't be certain it will perform as well.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Ingineer]

I don't see this as a possibility, as if the ground fails, the EVSE will immediately open the relays and everything will be safe. Also, before I came up with this mod, I checked all the different outlet types I could locate, (6) and all of them made firm connections to the ground even once trimmed.

Hi Phil,

Certainly the EGC and the GFCI are separate redundant layers of safety. I'm just not comfortable weakening the EGC safety layer, even a little. While it may be unlikely the modified pin will perform less well than the original pin, we can't be certain it will perform as well.

Cheers, Wayne

If you aren't comfortable, then by all means play it safe. I'd say you have a greater chance of having a large meteorite fall out of the sky and kill you. (and by no means should you ever drive a car! =)

 

[GeekEV]

Obviously there's a difference of opinion here. Dear reader, I think you'll have to make your own decision on what's acceptable risk to you and what isn't.

Next topic, please! :lol:

 

[nater]

Hi guys. I'm a former RAV4 EV driver and we've been through the whole 240 adapter journey before.

Darrell is a friend of mine and built these:

http://evnut.com/charger_adapters.htm

Note that he used L6-30 as the go-between to accommodate the 27 Amps that the Toyota Charger draws.

Some real world traveling has revealed a few other considerations for adapters, namely CS6365, which is a 50Amp twistlock very commonly found outdoors, particularly anywhere performances are given, like parks and outdoor amphitheaters:

http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=9828

Also, Darell didn't do this, but I agree with geek EV that trimming the pin with a dremel on the 10-30 to fit the 10-50 is the way to go, and saves a connector.

Also, Nema 6-30 and 6-50 are so rare that I had a combo connector from Lowe's that I could modify with a screwdriver to rotate the pins if the day ever came. (These connectors are only found near welders and forklifts).

http://www.galesburgelectric.com/Leviton-931-30-50A-250V-NEMA-6-30P-6-50P-2P-Straight-Blade-Plug.html

Also, for the NEMA 14-30 and NEMA 14-50, I trimmed fourth pin instead of leaving it off. This helps keep it plugged into the wall, even if the pin isn't connected. Note however, that this makes is unusable for the NEMA 14-60, whereas severing this pin makes it compatible with all three. Keep in mind I've never actually seen a NEMA 14-60 in real life. I don't even know who uses them.

Two more connectors to consider having adapters for: NEMA L6-30, NEMA L14-20 and NEMA L14-30. The last two could come in VERY handy because they are commonly found on generators.

Here is my list of adapters in order of how commonly I would run across them:

1. NEMA 14-30/50 combo. NEMA 14-50s are common at RV parks and household oven/ stoves (ranges). The 14-30 is common at dryer outlets.

2. NEMA 10-30/50 combo. Common for older dryers and ranges.

3. CS6365. These are hidden in plain sight all over parks in the USA. Also, there is one of these on the front of almost every Home Depot, although it is frequently blocked by displayed product. Good luck getting the manager to let you plug in.

4. NEMA 6-30. Common in some welding shops, forklift areas. Useful when in and around warehouses.

(NEMA 6-50). Same as NEMA 6-30, but even more rarely encountered in my travels. See my note above about an easily modifiable connector.

Cords likely for generators:
L6-30, L14-20, and L14-30 These are common on generators. If you don't care about fast charging from a generator, you won't need these. Keep in mind you can always charge at 120v on any generator, so if for some reason you absolutely must lug a generator out to your Leaf to bring it back to life where a tow truck can't reach, you can get away without these connectors.

The only time I ever encountered a connector I didn't have was a NEMA L21-30. You can wire to this one by only using two of the three poles.

Basically, with only four adapters, you can have near universal coverage of available 240v power. And honestly, with just two, you will be covered at every RV park and all of your friend's houses.

Happy motoring.

Nate

 

[GeekEV]

Nice suggestion on the CS6365. I'll have to pick one of those up.

 

[garygid]

The CS6364 & 5 are a bit expensive, it seems.

 

[nater]

I have a couple extra CS6365's left over from a project. They are like new in case anybody wants one.

Nate