Battery Replacement Program Details

[FairwoodRed]

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.

Holy Sheet!!! NO! NO! NO!

I'm not trading my fixed term payments for a never ending insurance policy. Why can't I buy new parts for my car? Nissan wants to take away my ownership? Only from my cold, dead lithium foot!

I am very underwhelmed.

 

[surfingslovak]

One suggestion I'd like to put in the hopper is, why not provide different monthly prices for different 'minimum bar' capacities. Say $120/Month for 10 bar minimum, $150/Month for 11 bar minimum. Or even $50/month for 6 bars? One size doesn't fit all.

Indeed, the capacity level covered by the program might not work for everyone.

 

[evnow]

It is as if Nissan just doesn't want anyone to know what the cost of the battery pack is ... so no outright purchases.

Ofcourse, not any different from Tesla. They won't sell you a new battery pack either. Just an option to pre-buy the battery that you can get 8 years from now for $12k.

 

[evnow]

One suggestion I'd like to put in the hopper is, why not provide different monthly prices for different 'minimum bar' capacities. Say $120/Month for 10 bar minimum, $150/Month for 11 bar minimum. Or even $50/month for 6 bars? One size doesn't fit all.

Indeed, the capacity level covered by the program might not work for everyone.

Not just this - but one more thing not said is how many miles are allowed on the pack per month. It can't be that someone driving 30k a year will pay the same as 12k a year.

 

[RonDawg]

and not what we were promised: a price for a new battery.

We were given that price...$100/month lease only...

No, that is not a price for a new battery. It is the price for an insurance policy with limitations.

Well, not exactly. If you decide to opt into this program, you will get a fresh battery pack, with all 12 bars. The insurance policy part is that they will guarantee a minimum 9 bars for as long as you keep paying into the program.

If you buy a new battery outright, the only warranty you will get is whatever is normally offered for replacement parts. Usually, that is 12 months/12k miles in the case of Nissan.

For those of us who already own (and did not lease) a Leaf, it only makes sense if the recently-announced battery capacity warranty already expired, or will expire before the battery loses a 4th bar), and want to continue driving the car. Otherwise it makes no financial sense to do this before the battery capacity warranty has expired on your current battery.

At least, that's the way I read it.

 

[jhm614]

Sorry. My phone rang a couple of times, and now I have to play catchup. I'll try not to miss anything.

1) Does the program require a commitment to a minimum number of months? (24? 12?, etc.)
2) Is the program term flexible (13 months instead of 12? 9 months instead of 12?)
3) It is possible that I will have over 60k miles when the program because available. Will I still be eligible?

jhm614: On your questions, the program does not have a defined term, nor is there an eligibility requirement. Any LEAF owner can sign up. Of course, we wouldn't expect many to need the program, particularly while still covered by the new vehicle warranty.

Thanks for the quick response -- you are going to have a busy afternoon. One more question and a suggestion:

1) That mileage question that people have brought up is a good one... Any mileage limitations on the new pack? (1,000 per month, etc.)
2) You should add a "FAQ" to the first post. It will help the forum members that will be reading about this for the first time when they get home after work today.

 

[thankyouOB]

Brian,
please explain why owners of a LEAF should not be picketing your dealerships and writing ugly letters to the NYT, LAT and every local paper in the country.

Maybe John Broder would like another scoop./

You have just proposed a plan where, if i (a 2011 owner) want to upgrade my range with a battery replacement after three years of ownership, you will charge me the same rate as a current lessee and as part of the deal nissan will take my battery -- the most expensive component in my car -- for NO compensation.

how is that supposed to be fair and equitable???
you have not thought this through or talked to enough owners.
are you saying that the advisory claque just applauded and that your surveys showed owners want to give you the most expensive component of their car for FREE???

 

[surfingslovak]

Indeed, the capacity level covered by the program might not work for everyone.

Not just this - but one more thing not said is how many miles are allowed on the pack per month. It can't be that someone driving 30k a year will pay the same as 12k a year.

Right, noticed that too. The European lease schemes usually have mileage tiers. Not that I'm asking for that, but it certainly makes you wonder.

 

[edatoakrun]

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.

This is new news. Nissan owns the battery if you sign up for this? That makes it sound not so advantageous. What happens if you want to stop participating in the program? What battery do you get. You had a battery to start with. Can't simply leave the car without a battery.

Overall the announcement should have more details or it simply adds to confusion. It's too vague. Lots of guessing going on here on significant points.

This is the same question I asked previously re title and resale.

Nissan must, IMO, give an option to exit the program after a minimum number of payments are made, and allow the option to allow ownership of the battery to pass on to the present or future owner.

48, 60, 72 months...whatever Nissan decides on, will allow us to consider the agreement, prior to acceptance.

How will I be able to sell my 9-bar capacity 12 year old LEAF, or afford to keep it myself (as I may want to) as a low-use "local" vehicle, if it requires a permanent $1,200 a year battery cost?

 

[firetrax]

Lifetime commitment to pay the battery rental makes no sense. Basically if you stop paying they will leave you a car with no battery! Also, what happens if your pack is damaged in an accident. Is you insurer obliged to continue paying the battery rental forever or will you still be on the hook?

 

[Nubo]

...Consider this an opportunity and privilege, not an opportunity to cry because you didn't get sprinkles on your ice cream.

There is no privilege involved here. Nissan is making a product, and hopefully a profit. I will choose to buy what appeals to me. If I want sprinkles I will damn well find an ice cream shop with sprinkles.

I think I misunderstood part of the offer, so it appears I CAN get a completely new pack at a time of my choosing. Ok.

But at that point I'm stuck in an indefinite lease and some gray existence with degraded batteries that will be partially remedied if they get really bad. This is not exactly appealing.

Guys, I'm not asking for the Moon. You have a part. You have a parts distribution network. What's so hard about listing a price? Sure it will change. The price of spark plugs change. Why is this so hard? And hard to understand?

 

[thankyouOB]

gonna need some big gap insurance on your auto policy if you have an accident and damage nissan's battery in the car you own.

 

[surfingslovak]

Nissan must, IMO, give an option to exit the program after a minimium number of payments are made, and have ownership of the battery pass on to the present or future owner.

48, 60 month, 72 months...whatever Nissan decides on, will allow us to consider the agreement, prior to acceptance.

How will I be able to sell my 9-bar capacity 10 year old LEAF, or afford to keep it myself as a low-use "local" vehicle, if it comes with a permanent $1,200 a year battery cost?

Yes, that part is missing also. If Nissan is unable to offer that with this program, and absolutely does not wish to disclose the current battery price, they should offer an alternative of prepaying for a new pack, much like Tesla does. Then let the owners decide, which scheme works better for their needs.

 

[thankyouOB]

Brian,
perhaps you guys can come back this summer with answers to some of the questions.
particularly why an owner would like this deal to give up her battery.

thanks.
sincerely, an early adopter and big fan.

 

[Reddy]

Well, well, well, very interesting. I think this could be an excellent program for those who wait. As I read it (and I'm sure that I'm wrong because this deal is too good to be true), any old time I decide to enter the program I can lease a new battery with the newest technology for $100/mo. So, in 2025 when my 2011 Leaf is down to about 4 bars (still useable in my small town), I decide it's time to "enter the program". I pay my measly $100/mo (which is now, after inflation, worth about $20 in today's dollars, about the same as a fast food meal) and get an 80 kWh pack (the 2025 technology). Sweet! I'll take it. At that time, I'll be retired and ready to travel so the larger pack will be a welcome addition. Thanks Nissan! I'll take that deal because my Leaf will still be plenty useable with 4 bars.

Sorry to all the other folks who actually need and use 10+ bars on a daily basis. This surely sucks for them.

 

[cwerdna]

if I am in an accident, and the battery needs replacement, there is a price for the part. Well, WHAT IS IT? (3)

I think the logic here is that in most cases, if the original battery is damaged in an accident, the car itself is so badly damaged that it's totaled and not worth it to replace it anyway.

The only case where perhaps it might not be is due to running over something rather than colliding w/something.

Lifetime commitment to pay the battery rental makes no sense. Basically if you stop paying they will leave you a car with no battery! Also, what happens if your pack is damaged in an accident. Is you insurer obliged to continue paying the battery rental forever or will you still be on the hook?

For this case, this does raise good questions and whether one will need gap insurance.

I think the way this is structured is that once it becomes unfeasible/uneconomical for the owner to pay the monthly fee, the owner will be basically forced to sell the car (probably back to Nissan) and Nissan can then re-purpose the battery as a replacement for the 4 bar losers, grid energy storage, etc. And, since it's rather unattractive for a future owner to buy a used Leaf and pay $100/month for the battery, nobody will want it, so Nissan gets to do the above w/the battery.

And, used Leafs recovered by Nissan could be sent to countries where used Leafs seem to be in high demand (e.g. Norway) and they might even make a profit selling them there.

I'm also guessing that announcing this monthly fee lets them be opened ended about possibly actually announcing a part price in the future and/or a lower monthly fee.

I am disappointed that we haven't heard a price but instead gotten this. I think this program is going to hurt Leaf resale values even further.

 

[GreenPowerDP]

I think we are over thinking this. To me this looks like an extension of the standard battery warranty.

If your battery drops below 9 bars while under original factory warranty - they will replace it.

If you want that same replacement warranty after the factory warranty runs out - you can buy it for $100/month. And if your battery drops below 9 bars, they will replace it. If you stop paying, it doesn't say that they will take your battery away, you will simply be no longer covered under warranty.

I think this is similar to extended (factory) warranties that can be transferred when you sell your car - if all parties agree, the extended warranty can be transferred to a new owner.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Good point. Hopefully we get clarification on the above. Do we end up with a car w/no battery after we start paying $100/month and discontinue it?

 

[shrink]

for about $100 per month.

I just wanted to emphasize the "about." Could be more or less than $100 - depending on more unknown factors.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Well Mr Brockman, Nissan has claimed it is a company that wants to listen to its customers, you're certainly getting an opportunity here.