Battery Replacement Program Details

[madhaus]

Why would I want to pay $100/month for "9 bars" rather than a measurable capacity guarantee? Software updates could redefine 9 bars to be anything. Right now once you lose the ninth bar, you have 66 2/3% capacity, which really isn't sufficient for most Leaf owners.

As others have said, we need to know how much it would cost to replace the battery outright with a new one.

 

[edatoakrun]

Hi everyone...


The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

I know there will be questions, and I (along with others from Nissan) will do our best to answer them here. As always, we welcome your feedback....

That sounds to me like you are saying the initial replacement has the full "12 bars" capacity.

Do I understand you correctly?

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Erik Gottfried, Nissan’s director of Electric Vehicle Sales and Marketing, said: “Nissan anticipates that the great majority of our current LEAF drivers will never need this battery replacement option...”

I don't doubt that since most "LEAF drivers" seem to be leasing and most owners will sell the car before having to replace the battery. But what about used LEAF buyers? I presume that they will have access to the same program.

For fairly low annual mileage LEAF owners this makes the cost of ownership MUCH more expensive than even a fairly low mpg ICE car. If I drive 7200 miles per year the battery plan alone would be more than 16¢/mile. There's a TCO that doesn't look very good. For those who drive 20,000 miles a year, assuming they can even do that with a nine bar battery, the numbers look fine, about 6¢/mile.

 

[RonDawg]

and not what we were promised: a price for a new battery.

We were given that price...$100/month lease only.

As mentioned earlier, this is a reasonable price. I recall reading somewhere that at best, a new battery pack is about $7800...at $100/month, you'd have to have the car for at least 78 months AFTER you opt in to this program before purchasing would have been cheaper. And if you live in Phoenix or Vegas (the folks who would be most interested), do you think a new battery will keep a minimum 9 bars after 78 months?

 

[Stanton]

So what's the price of a new battery module/pack...and what happens if/when there is a higher capacity form/fit/function replacement :?:

 

[derkraut]

...Erik Gottfried, Nissan’s director of Electric Vehicle Sales and Marketing, said: “Nissan anticipates that the great majority of our current LEAF drivers will never need this battery replacement option...”

I don't doubt that since most "LEAF drivers" seem to be leasing and most owners will sell the car before having to replace the battery. But what about used LEAF buyers? I presume that they will have access to the same program.

For fairly low annual mileage LEAF owners this makes the cost of ownership MUCH more expensive than even a fairly low mpg ICE car. If I drive 7200 miles per year the battery plan alone would be more than 16¢/mile. There's a TCO that doesn't look very good. For those who drive 20,000 miles a year, assuming they can even do that with a nine bar battery, the numbers look fine, about 6¢/mile.

+ Good point. I'm a low mileage, 12 bar owner.

 

[davewill]

I think you guys are being way too kind.

This sucks rocks big time.

If this were available in addition to a price, it might be OK. As it is, people in desert climates will be happy to sign up and people anywhere else would be crazy to. I don't want a extended freaking warranty, I want a PRICE. We all asked for a price and this sure as hell isn't one.

I think I just decided this is my last LEAF.

 

[RonDawg]

Hi everyone...


The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

I know there will be questions, and I (along with others from Nissan) will do our best to answer them here. As always, we welcome your feedback....

That sounds to me like you are saying the initial replacement has the full "12 bars" capacity.

Do I understand you correctly?

That's the way I read it. You are getting a fresh battery pack, but if that goes bad (meaning below 9 bars) any subsequent replacements will only guarantee a minimum of 9 bars.

 

[jhm614]

Hi everyone. Brian Brockman from Nissan Communications again.

Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

I know there will be questions, and I (along with others from Nissan) will do our best to answer them here. As always, we welcome your feedback.

Brian,

Thanks for the update -- this is quite a bit different than what I was expecting and I am having a little trouble getting my head around it. But now that I think about it, it could a good thing, allowing me to economically upgrade my battery towards the end of my lease. Let me pose a few of questions:

Depending on when the program becomes available, I will have 9 to 13 months left on my lease.

1) Does the program require a commitment to a minimum number of months? (24? 12?, etc.)
2) Is the program term flexible (13 months instead of 12? 9 months instead of 12?)
3) It is possible that I will have over 60k miles when the program because available. Will I still be eligible?

Thanks!

 

[edatoakrun]

Brian,

Clarification, please.

Hi everyone...


The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

I know there will be questions, and I (along with others from Nissan) will do our best to answer them here. As always, we welcome your feedback....

That sounds to me like you are saying the initial replacement has the full "12 bars" capacity.

Do I understand you correctly?

That's the way I read it. You are getting a fresh battery pack, but if that goes bad (meaning below 9 bars) any subsequent replacements will only guarantee a minimum of 9 bars.

If this is the case, I think I will be quite satisfied. I can buy into the program at whatever time and capacity level I need it.

You essentially get a new, and (perhaps) improved battery, for a $100 monthly payment.

But also only IF you or the person you sell your LEAF to has the option to exit the program at any time, when and if other battery options may offer a better deal.

I don't want to be locked into paying $100 amonth for a "9 bar" battery either.

Unless the unlikely occurs, we get hyperinflation (and over $10 a gallon gas) and rapidly increasing nominal kWh battery costs.

$100 a month for 9 bars could actually be a bargain then, of course....

 

[BBrockman]

TaylorSF: I think I understand your question. You're saying, once you sign up for replacement, you're looking for assurance not above 9 bars, but at a higher capacity level.

We are still finalizing details of the program, and we can take that kind of request into consideration. As it stands today, the program only provides replacement of the pack the second time at a point when the capacity drops below 9 bars.

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.

On your last point, we expect to offer the latest tech that is compatible with the owner's LEAF at the time of sign-up for around $100 per month. We are trying to maintain backward compatibility as we develop future technology.

--

Well it is something - does this mean I can't have my battery exchanged to newer technology or similar in the event there is no new technology until my battery displays 8 bars or less? What is the plan for those of us that need more than that - a battery with 8 bars is just as useless to me as one with 10.

What happens at the end of ownership? Is this product replacement or does the pack belong to Nissan and is a separate part from the car itself. In other words, who owns the pack at the time the vehicle is sold?

Should the newer technology mentioned come with a larger range is it Nissan's intention to charge a higher price than $100?

 

[dm33]

So what's the price of a new battery module/pack...and what happens if/when there is a higher capacity form/fit/function replacement :?:

There is no higher capacity battery. How can you complain that they haven't released a price for a battery that doesn't exist yet?

 

[Nubo]

and not what we were promised: a price for a new battery.

We were given that price...$100/month lease only...

No, that is not a price for a new battery. It is the price for an insurance policy with limitations.

When I decide it's time for a new car, or a new refrigerator, or a new pair of pants... I want to know the price for a new one. I don't want an insurance policy that dictates I can only get a new refrigerator when the old one can only maintain the freezer at 30 degrees. That I can only get a new pair of pants when the old one has holes exceeding 4mm in width. That I can only get a new car when its top speed falls below 80 mph. Maybe I have new space requirements. Maybe I want a more efficient fridge. Maybe I lost some weight. Who cares? These are my justifications. Why does Nissan care WHY I want a pack? The grocer doesn't ask WHY I want a gallon of milk.

For crying out loud -- they are making battery packs. I'm just wondering if they'll ever get around to the wild and revolutionary idea of SELLING them? :roll:

 

[Nubo]

So what's the price of a new battery module/pack...and what happens if/when there is a higher capacity form/fit/function replacement :?:

There is no higher capacity battery. How can you complain that they haven't released a price for a battery that doesn't exist yet?

Announcing the price for the existing battery would be a place to start, no?

 

[Kataphn]

For those of us who bought our cars...if I opt for this lease program, what becomes of my original pack? I assume I am free to sell it on the open market as I wish? Or maybe I will keep it for some future use? Or perhaps Nissan will buy it from me?

 

[edatoakrun]

Not exactly the Clarifications I was hoping for.

What do you mean by "second time"?

Can I buy into the program for a first-time battery replacement, whenever I want to?

Are you actually saying this program impedes my ability to transfer title to the LEAF I now own outright?

TaylorSF: I think I understand your question. You're saying, once you sign up for replacement, you're looking for assurance not above 9 bars, but at a higher capacity level.

We are still finalizing details of the program, and we can take that kind of request into consideration. As it stands today, the program only provides replacement of the pack the second time at a point when the capacity drops below 9 bars.

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.
On your last point, we expect to offer the latest tech that is compatible with the owner's LEAF at the time of sign-up for around $100 per month. We are trying to maintain backward compatibility as we develop future technology.

--

Well it is something - does this mean I can't have my battery exchanged to newer technology or similar in the event there is no new technology until my battery displays 8 bars or less? What is the plan for those of us that need more than that - a battery with 8 bars is just as useless to me as one with 10.

What happens at the end of ownership? Is this product replacement or does the pack belong to Nissan and is a separate part from the car itself. In other words, who owns the pack at the time the vehicle is sold?

Should the newer technology mentioned come with a larger range is it Nissan's intention to charge a higher price than $100?

 

[evnow]

After reading all the posts and the Nissan communication - here is my take.

Nissan,

This message leaves me completely confused. You need to improve the communication. It should be clear and concise. It should clearly address various important scenarios for eg. can anyone with a Leaf join this program at any time ?

It would also be helpful if you spell out how this might be different from owning the car and leasing the battery.

$100 a month after buying the battery with the car is not cheap. This can't be compared to European case where the battery is leased all along - and was not initially bought.

This is what I'd suggest.

Anyone can get a new battery anytime they join this program. It would be a $100/month payment for the new leased battery. Nissan (or NMAC) owns the battery. The customer keeps paying this $100/month as long as he wants to drive the car. $100 a month allows 1,000 miles a month - with options for higher mileage available.

For someone buying the car new, they can opt in for this program from the start. They would pay much less for the car - and would lease the battery for $100/month (like Ghosn was suggesting a long time ago).

 

[BBrockman]

Sorry. My phone rang a couple of times, and now I have to play catchup. I'll try not to miss anything.

1) Does the program require a commitment to a minimum number of months? (24? 12?, etc.)
2) Is the program term flexible (13 months instead of 12? 9 months instead of 12?)
3) It is possible that I will have over 60k miles when the program because available. Will I still be eligible?

jhm614: On your questions, the program does not have a defined term, nor is there an eligibility requirement. Any LEAF owner can sign up. Of course, we wouldn't expect many to need the program, particularly while still covered by the new vehicle warranty.


Ron & others: When starting the program, you will get a 12 bar pack. If the replacement pack drops below 9 bars, we would replace the pack or repair it to get capacity to or above 9 bars.

Stanton, ThankYouOB & others: We are not announcing a price or plan to sell a new pack outright at this time. This plan was developed to match the feedback we received on the best way to offer a new pack in a cost-effective manner, and maintain assurance of capacity.

dgpColorado: Yes. We plan to offer the program to any LEAF owner, regardless of mileage or if you purchased a pre-owned LEAF.

That sounds to me like you are saying the initial replacement has the full "12 bars" capacity.

Do I understand you correctly?

Yes. the replacement battery will have a full 12 bars capacity.

 

[JPWhite]

Seems like a sweet deal to me if I understand it correctly.

I drive my car, everything is OK, if anything breaks or wears below 9 bars, warranty kicks in.
I drive past the capacity warranty and/or workmanship warranty I can either PAY NOTHING and chance it.
or PAY NOTHING until one day I say, you know I want a new battery. I sign up with the Nissan Finance company, get a NEW pack with 12 bars and have a workmanship and capacity warranty included if I continue to pay $100 per month.
I buy a secondhand LEAF with a 'weak battery' for a song. Start paying $100/month and get a brand new battery pack. This may help boost secondhand prices of LEAF's which are falling at 3%/month right now.

Its clear Nissan won't put an outright purchase price on the battery. Let's quit whining about that, ain't happening.

Its also clear this 'announcement' is a work in progress. They did as promised and communicated in the spring, and are monitoring the responses/input from us to help develop the final details of the program they will introduce NEXT YEAR. We haven't been provided with the small print yet. We have an opportunity to steer Nissan in the right direction as to the finer details of the program and get answers to questions like, "what if I sell the car, can the new owner 'assume' the battery program or have to start over".

Quit whining and provide Nissan with some constructive criticism and suggestions to make this program work for the whole LEAF community. Consider this an opportunity and privilege, not an opportunity to cry because you didn't get sprinkles on your ice cream.

One suggestion I'd like to put in the hopper is, why not provide different monthly prices for different 'minimum bar' capacities. Say $120/Month for 10 bar minimum, $150/Month for 11 bar minimum. Or even $50/month for 6 bars? One size doesn't fit all.

 

[dm33]

At the end of ownership, the pack does still belong to Nissan. We expect that the program will be transferred to the new owner, who would need to agree as part of any sale to the existing payment terms for continued use and possession of the battery.

This is new news. Nissan owns the battery if you sign up for this? That makes it sound not so advantageous. What happens if you want to stop participating in the program? What battery do you get. You had a battery to start with. Can't simply leave the car without a battery.

Overall the announcement should have more details or it simply adds to confusion. It's too vague. Lots of guessing going on here on significant points.