madbrain
Well-known member
I just test drove the Leaf on Saturday. I am very interested in the car. I like it a lot better than the Chevy Volt which I also test drove the week before.
This is my first post and I have lots of questions. Most of them are around range anxiety.
I'm especially wondering if it is suitable for me or not given my driving patterns.
I'm especially interested in hearing from Leaf owners who have switched t the Leaf as their only car.
Currently, I drive a 2007 Prius. My partner drives a 2011 Prius. There are only 2 of us, won't ever be more than that. We live on a hill so we are car-dependent. The closest bus stop is 1.5 mile away, and one third of that is steep downhill. Public transportation is not a viable option for any trip.
1) My regular commute is short, 12 miles each way, and there are 4 chargers in front of each building at my office. For that regular commute, I could just recharge at work only all the time.
2) About once a week, I drive a little more for work, to another office which is 30 miles from home, and doesn't have EV chargers unfortunately. 26 of those 30 miles are freeway. I tend to drive pretty fast at highway speeds. Usually I don't cross 80, but I may average 70 to 75. Could I rely on consistently having enough range with a full charge for 52 miles of driving 75mph and 8 miles of city streets ? This is assuming climate control on 72 summer/68 winter with Bay area climate.
3) I also make lots of other short trips with the Prius which the Leaf would be completely suitable for.
4) We spend about $2400 a year in gas (figure is per Quicken!) to drive about 28000 miles between the two of us - this is about 45mpg on both Prius, and roughly $4/gallon.
If the Leaf was charged at work all the time for free, about half of that gasoline cost could be eliminated.
5) If I charged the Leaf at home on the other hand, it would cost slightly more in electricity as using gasoline with the Prius, as I would be pushed into higher tiers with PG&E . Adding 4500 kWh/year to my current usage would cost about $1100 in additional electricity charges from the grid, ie. about 26 cents per kWh. This is because I have solar PV right now and am strictly in baseline tiers, but I would jump into tier 4 and tier 5 territory by adding the EV . Using E-9 schedule would not reduce that by much as it is less favorable than my current E-6 TOU rate for my solar PV.
I'm in the process of adding some extra PV capacity which to cover some of remaining energy charges, and prevent the jump into higher tiers if I get the EV..I want to do that PV expansion regardless.
6) Adding the Leaf and keeping both our 2007 and 2011 Prius would cost an extra $500 per year in insurance, and about $300 per year in CA DMV fees.
Even if adding the vehicle itself was free, these extra costs would negate a good chunk of the $1200 annual savings from reduced gasoline consumption from driving my Prius 2007 less.
Besides that, it is not very green to have 3 cars when there are only two drivers.
Our garage has 3 spots, but only has 2 doors, the third spot is in the back, and not really accessible unless the spot in front of it is empty. And we use that spot for storage.
So, the idea if I get the Leaf would be to replace the 2007 Prius (which I currently drive). And we could still use my partner's 2011 Prius for the long range trips we take together on weekends.
Once in a while, I do take trips of about 100 miles without my partner on weekends, to Santa Cruz or accross the bay, and it's clear the Leaf would not cut it for those trips . This means we would have to use my partner's Prius for those times, and he could use the Leaf.
7) Occasionally, I take unplanned long-range trips without my partner, and his Prius may not be available.
I am wondering if anyone owns a Leaf only and uses some car service to rent another car occasionally for long trips. Either through a car rental agency or other like Zipcar.
On the hill where I live, it's all residential there are no Zipcars and don't expect there ever will be. I could drive the Leaf to a Zipcar location about 5 miles away however, if there was a spot to park the Leaf. I think Enterprise will deliver a rental car, but it's probably much more expensive. If anyone is using those, I want to hear from you. How inconvenient have you found this to be ?
I anticipate having to do this 6-12 times a year.
8) Lease or buy ?
I have never done a lease before, only straight purchase.
a) One local dealer is offering me a 3 year lease with $0 down and $270/month + sales tax for a new 2012 SL. With the $2500 CA rebate it is only $8000 total cost for this lease. This seems dirt cheap. However, the residual value is based on MSRP, so if I buy it at the end of the lease, it's not as good of a deal. Residual value is estimated at about $19k + tax. Dealer says the residual value is set by NMAC and not negotiable. Is that true ?
b) there is one 2011 SL, about 16 months old, advertised locally in my choice of color with under 20k miles and about $22k.
I know the battery warranty is only 8 years/100000 miles. With my current mileage of about 12000/year, I would reach the mileage limit in about 6.5 years with this used one, vs the full 8 years on a new one.
My first car was a 2001 Prius, which back then had the same battery warranty. The battery failed at 8 years, 3 months and 94000 miles. Toyota was gracious enough to cover half the cost of the battery replacement ($3400 part and labor total) as it was so close to the warranty expiration.
Obviously the battery technology is improving, but also the battery on the Leaf is probably a much bigger portion of the price of the Leaf than it was on the 2001 Prius.
If I find the Leaf to be suitable, do you think option a) or b) is the better choice ?
This is my first post and I have lots of questions. Most of them are around range anxiety.
I'm especially wondering if it is suitable for me or not given my driving patterns.
I'm especially interested in hearing from Leaf owners who have switched t the Leaf as their only car.
Currently, I drive a 2007 Prius. My partner drives a 2011 Prius. There are only 2 of us, won't ever be more than that. We live on a hill so we are car-dependent. The closest bus stop is 1.5 mile away, and one third of that is steep downhill. Public transportation is not a viable option for any trip.
1) My regular commute is short, 12 miles each way, and there are 4 chargers in front of each building at my office. For that regular commute, I could just recharge at work only all the time.
2) About once a week, I drive a little more for work, to another office which is 30 miles from home, and doesn't have EV chargers unfortunately. 26 of those 30 miles are freeway. I tend to drive pretty fast at highway speeds. Usually I don't cross 80, but I may average 70 to 75. Could I rely on consistently having enough range with a full charge for 52 miles of driving 75mph and 8 miles of city streets ? This is assuming climate control on 72 summer/68 winter with Bay area climate.
3) I also make lots of other short trips with the Prius which the Leaf would be completely suitable for.
4) We spend about $2400 a year in gas (figure is per Quicken!) to drive about 28000 miles between the two of us - this is about 45mpg on both Prius, and roughly $4/gallon.
If the Leaf was charged at work all the time for free, about half of that gasoline cost could be eliminated.
5) If I charged the Leaf at home on the other hand, it would cost slightly more in electricity as using gasoline with the Prius, as I would be pushed into higher tiers with PG&E . Adding 4500 kWh/year to my current usage would cost about $1100 in additional electricity charges from the grid, ie. about 26 cents per kWh. This is because I have solar PV right now and am strictly in baseline tiers, but I would jump into tier 4 and tier 5 territory by adding the EV . Using E-9 schedule would not reduce that by much as it is less favorable than my current E-6 TOU rate for my solar PV.
I'm in the process of adding some extra PV capacity which to cover some of remaining energy charges, and prevent the jump into higher tiers if I get the EV..I want to do that PV expansion regardless.
6) Adding the Leaf and keeping both our 2007 and 2011 Prius would cost an extra $500 per year in insurance, and about $300 per year in CA DMV fees.
Even if adding the vehicle itself was free, these extra costs would negate a good chunk of the $1200 annual savings from reduced gasoline consumption from driving my Prius 2007 less.
Besides that, it is not very green to have 3 cars when there are only two drivers.
Our garage has 3 spots, but only has 2 doors, the third spot is in the back, and not really accessible unless the spot in front of it is empty. And we use that spot for storage.
So, the idea if I get the Leaf would be to replace the 2007 Prius (which I currently drive). And we could still use my partner's 2011 Prius for the long range trips we take together on weekends.
Once in a while, I do take trips of about 100 miles without my partner on weekends, to Santa Cruz or accross the bay, and it's clear the Leaf would not cut it for those trips . This means we would have to use my partner's Prius for those times, and he could use the Leaf.
7) Occasionally, I take unplanned long-range trips without my partner, and his Prius may not be available.
I am wondering if anyone owns a Leaf only and uses some car service to rent another car occasionally for long trips. Either through a car rental agency or other like Zipcar.
On the hill where I live, it's all residential there are no Zipcars and don't expect there ever will be. I could drive the Leaf to a Zipcar location about 5 miles away however, if there was a spot to park the Leaf. I think Enterprise will deliver a rental car, but it's probably much more expensive. If anyone is using those, I want to hear from you. How inconvenient have you found this to be ?
I anticipate having to do this 6-12 times a year.
8) Lease or buy ?
I have never done a lease before, only straight purchase.
a) One local dealer is offering me a 3 year lease with $0 down and $270/month + sales tax for a new 2012 SL. With the $2500 CA rebate it is only $8000 total cost for this lease. This seems dirt cheap. However, the residual value is based on MSRP, so if I buy it at the end of the lease, it's not as good of a deal. Residual value is estimated at about $19k + tax. Dealer says the residual value is set by NMAC and not negotiable. Is that true ?
b) there is one 2011 SL, about 16 months old, advertised locally in my choice of color with under 20k miles and about $22k.
I know the battery warranty is only 8 years/100000 miles. With my current mileage of about 12000/year, I would reach the mileage limit in about 6.5 years with this used one, vs the full 8 years on a new one.
My first car was a 2001 Prius, which back then had the same battery warranty. The battery failed at 8 years, 3 months and 94000 miles. Toyota was gracious enough to cover half the cost of the battery replacement ($3400 part and labor total) as it was so close to the warranty expiration.
Obviously the battery technology is improving, but also the battery on the Leaf is probably a much bigger portion of the price of the Leaf than it was on the 2001 Prius.
If I find the Leaf to be suitable, do you think option a) or b) is the better choice ?