Is the Leaf suitable for me ? Range anxiety.

[Caracalover]

Oh, and something to be cerrtain of with your scenario if money is a huge factor. The free electricity at work may start to charge for it, or a PIP or Volt may take the space. Something to consider.

 

[madbrain]

Ok, so now you have to post the photo.

Doesn't look like this server will let me do that.

I would say you are over thinking this, and you already have made up your mind, the only real question is used or new.

I am definitely overthinking it
However it's not accurate to say I have already made up my mind.
I know my next car will be a plug-in, either an EV or PHEV for sure.
What I'm less certain about is whether the time for it is now and whether the EV needs to be a 3rd car or we can sell one of the two ICE cars.

I like new. Money is not why you are buying the car, making a statement is what you are buying, and I support that statement. Life is not always about what is fiscally responsible, it is often about what is responsible.

I agree there. I prefer new as well.

The Rav4 EV may be an option, but without the support of the company that is making it, I would ask myself is it worth supporting? They did crush a lot of old EV Rav4s, about 200 survived. With a mesh of Tesla parts in it, it is a real car that delivers good perfomance - I test drove one today in Santa Monica - but it does not have the real commitment that Nissan has given the auto world - something to consider.

I had never considered the Rav4. I know there are a few other EVs that are available for lease only like the Honda Fit EV.
It's nice to have at least the option to buy the car though.

As for the Leaf, living on a hill like you do you will never need to charge it to 100% at home. For those long trips you may find that the feeling of driving a power generation station overcomes your need for speed. Regenerating energy in a Prius is not the same as doing so in a vehicle that NEVER burns gasoline.

I wonder about that really. I can drive my Prius at 75mph and average 45-46 MPG on the freeway.
I really would like to know what the miles/kWh are at that speed in the Leaf.
While I live on a hill, it is very steep, I normally go downhill from 700ft to sea level in the first half mile, so it doesn't help the mileage all that much.

 

[madbrain]

Oh, and something to be cerrtain of with your scenario if money is a huge factor. The free electricity at work may start to charge for it, or a PIP or Volt may take the space. Something to consider.

Well money is certainly one important factor.

The PIP seems a bit half-baked in regards to battery size.
So does the Volt in terms of gasoline mileage and vehicle size.
And both the PIP and Volt seem too pricey.

The Leaf is very nice except for range. The Leaf lease is affordable, but as a 3rd car the registration/insurance would add up.

Maybe I need to wait for a PIP with a larger battery ...

I noticed that no one chimed in about replacing their ICE vehicle with the Leaf, and using car sharing services like Zipcar for long trips, so I am going to assume no one is doing it.

 

[DaveEV]

I can drive my Prius at 75mph and average 45-46 MPG on the freeway.

The Prius seems to be wonderfully immune to driving behavior when it comes to delivering good fuel economy as long as one doesn't drive over 75 mph or drive lots of short trips or do a lot of heavy city driving.

I really would like to know what the miles/kWh are at that speed in the Leaf.

I rarely drive that fast in the LEAF, but in my experience I'd expect to get between low to mid 3 mi/kWh according to the gauges.

 

[HairyCairy]

"I really would like to know what the miles/kWh are at that speed in the Leaf"
I routinely drive 70-75 mph in my leaf, hey sometimes your running late. I reset the trips the other day and I averaged 3.6kw/m on my 2011 SL. Hope that helps.

 

[madbrain]

"I really would like to know what the miles/kWh are at that speed in the Leaf"
I routinely drive 70-75 mph in my leaf, hey sometimes your running late. I reset the trips the other day and I averaged 3.6kw/m on my 2011 SL. Hope that helps.

Thanks, yes it helps. How much of the 24 kWh battery capacity is actually usable ?

 

[RegGuheert]

How much of the 24 kWh battery capacity is actually usable ?

When new, Nissan seems to think it has 19 to 21 kWh usable for driving. I wouldn't calculate from new capacity, however. For a lease for high-speed driving, you probably want to use 70% of that to give yourself a little margin.

 

[madbrain]

How much of the 24 kWh battery capacity is actually usable ?

When new, Nissan seems to think it has 19 to 21 kWh usable for driving. I wouldn't calculate from new capacity, however. For a lease for high-speed driving, you probably want to use 70% of that to give yourself a little margin.

Damn. At 21 kWh usable * 3.6 miles per kWh, that's 75 mile freeway range and fine.
But at 19 kWh * 70% * 3.6 is only 48 miles, quite a difference.

 

[GRA]

How much of the 24 kWh battery capacity is actually usable ?

When new, Nissan seems to think it has 19 to 21 kWh usable for driving. I wouldn't calculate from new capacity, however. For a lease for high-speed driving, you probably want to use 70% of that to give yourself a little margin.

Damn. At 21 kWh usable * 3.6 miles per kWh, that's 75 mile freeway range and fine.
But at 19 kWh * 70% * 3.6 is only 48 miles, quite a difference.

You might want to have a look at Tony Williams' range chart:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[madbrain]

RegGuheert,

You might want to have a look at Tony Williams' range chart:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293#p101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, that is helpful indeed.

 

[mksE55]

with freeway miles I hope you are thinking 55mph freeway. not 70-75mph freeway speeds. granted I did get 70 miles at 55mph new. less than 1 year later I am down to 55miles. As others mention do your calculation based on 80% charge as the high distance and 70% as the low distance at 5 years and you should be safe. I am now inclined not to recommend this car to anyone, as nissan is not warranting any battery issue even if its their own fault.

 

[cwerdna]

The Rav4 EV may be an option, but without the support of the company that is making it, I would ask myself is it worth supporting? They did crush a lot of old EV Rav4s, about 200 survived. With a mesh of Tesla parts in it, it is a real car that delivers good perfomance - I test drove one today in Santa Monica - but it does not have the real commitment that Nissan has given the auto world - something to consider.

Hey... you didn't answer the thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10008&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I don't think I met you there. I was there both days. (Yes, I drove down to So Cal mainly for the show.)

Rav4 EV was quite nice. Had lots of power.

 

[madbrain]

with freeway miles I hope you are thinking 55mph freeway. not 70-75mph freeway speeds. granted I did get 70 miles at 55mph new. less than 1 year later I am down to 55miles. As others mention do your calculation based on 80% charge as the high distance and 70% as the low distance at 5 years and you should be safe. I am now inclined not to recommend this car to anyone, as nissan is not warranting any battery issue even if its their own fault.

5 years should not be an issue on a 3yr lease, if it degrades too much I would return the car after that.
I am not planning on driving 55mph on the freeway at any point unless traffic requires.

55 would mean being in the slow lane with all the merges from entrances and exits. The HOV lane in California is the fast one on the left, and has half as many merges, so it is IMO far safer, but 55mph won't cut it.

So far I have been holding off. Will see if the 2013 specs warrant the wait when they finally are made public.
There is likely plenty of 2012 inventory left at this point, though. I wonder what the incentives will be after today.

 

[Caracalover]

The Rav4 EV may be an option, but without the support of the company that is making it, I would ask myself is it worth supporting? They did crush a lot of old EV Rav4s, about 200 survived. With a mesh of Tesla parts in it, it is a real car that delivers good perfomance - I test drove one today in Santa Monica - but it does not have the real commitment that Nissan has given the auto world - something to consider.

Hey... you didn't answer the thread at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10008&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I don't think I met you there. I was there both days. (Yes, I drove down to So Cal mainly for the show.)

Rav4 EV was quite nice. Had lots of power.

I was there Saturday all day. Didn't know if I was going with Carmageddon going on and me living right in the line of disruption. Opted to car pool with my friend who has a Tesla Roadster. Let me just say I enjoyed the ride there and back as much as the show.

 

[Caracalover]

As for the Leaf, living on a hill like you do you will never need to charge it to 100% at home. For those long trips you may find that the feeling of driving a power generation station overcomes your need for speed. Regenerating energy in a Prius is not the same as doing so in a vehicle that NEVER burns gasoline.

I wonder about that really. I can drive my Prius at 75mph and average 45-46 MPG on the freeway.
I really would like to know what the miles/kWh are at that speed in the Leaf.
While I live on a hill, it is very steep, I normally go downhill from 700ft to sea level in the first half mile, so it doesn't help the mileage all that much.

With the Leaf, you can regen up to 30KW as you go downhill. I doubt that a Prius allows for that. I live on a mountain and when I leave the house I lose 500 feet in the first mile or two. I never use the brake pads. After the first year I still have over 95% of my brake pads, and every Sunday I drive it over the mountain range to the high desert. These days I find I am faster on the freeway than most people, due to them wanting to conserve fuel. I rarely look at the M/KW. Likely you will see this trend yourself soon. Beauty of the Leaf is you can always choose to slow down and take it easy if you think you need to. When you get comfortable with how it works you will hot rod when you can, and drive green when you can't hot rod. For the most part, you can hot rod. With my solar, I get 100+mpg equiv no matter how or where I drive, and it costs me nothing. A prius can't do that either.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

with freeway miles I hope you are thinking 55mph freeway. not 70-75mph freeway speeds. granted I did get 70 miles at 55mph new. less than 1 year later I am down to 55miles. As others mention do your calculation based on 80% charge as the high distance and 70% as the low distance at 5 years and you should be safe. I am now inclined not to recommend this car to anyone, as nissan is not warranting any battery issue even if its their own fault.

i average 55-60 mph and get easily over 80 miles on a charge. you might want to look at other factors like tire pressure. running at Nissan recommended pressure can take miles off the range and your tires life.

 

[madbrain]

With the Leaf, you can regen up to 30KW as you go downhill. I doubt that a Prius allows for that.

I have no idea what charging rate it allows for when regenerating, but the drive downhill is quite short.

I live on a mountain and when I leave the house I lose 500 feet in the first mile or two. I never use the brake pads.

I always put my Prius in "B" mode going downhill from my house, and I still have to use the brakes. It's a residential street, straight down, and the speed limit is 15 mph. There are deers crossing around here so it's best not to ignore the limit. My partner hit one of them at night once.
If I didn't use the B mode and brakes I would be at 50+ mph at the bottom even without even touching the Prius accelerator.

 

[madbrain]

i average 55-60 mph and get easily over 80 miles on a charge.

Is that average speed for all miles driven or for freeway miles ?
And if all miles driven, how many of the miles are freeway and what's your speed there?

 

[cwerdna]

with freeway miles I hope you are thinking 55mph freeway. not 70-75mph freeway speeds. granted I did get 70 miles at 55mph new. less than 1 year later I am down to 55miles. As others mention do your calculation based on 80% charge as the high distance and 70% as the low distance at 5 years and you should be safe. I am now inclined not to recommend this car to anyone, as nissan is not warranting any battery issue even if its their own fault.

i average 55-60 mph and get easily over 80 miles on a charge. you might want to look at other factors like tire pressure. running at Nissan recommended pressure can take miles off the range and your tires life.

I haven't followed this thread closely, but if you drive 55-60 mph on many Bay Area freeways, you will practically get run over. Speed limit on most freeways is 65 mph. People drive faster here in general (and vs. the speed limit) than in WA.

Doing 55-60 here means you'll need to stay in the right lane(s). I can say it's mighty inconvenient and annoying to be in the rightmost lane w/the people exiting and entering the freeway constantly. One will need to keep moving over to accommodate those entering. I've tried it enough times while trying test out "superhighway mode" in my Prius. SHM is not suited to Bay Area freeway speeds at all.

madbrain: I lived in WA state for ~9 years but in the Seattle area. I can't speak to the Olympia area where Dave lives but I can say that in the Seattle area, people drive much slower than Nor Cal. Speed limits on the highways there were typically 60 mph until you got further away from major cities/towns. It's not uncommon for people to drive below the speed limit in the fast lane for no reason there and hold up traffic (not move over when cars are piling up).

 

[madbrain]

Doing 55-60 here means you'll need to stay in the right lane(s). I can say it's mighty inconvenient and annoying to be in the rightmost lane w/the people exiting and entering the freeway constantly. One will need to keep moving over to accommodate those entering. I've tried it enough times while trying test out "superhighway mode" in my Prius. SHM is not suited to Bay Area freeway speeds at all.

I didn't know about this mode, but it does sound useless, I would not drive 55-60 here.

madbrain: I lived in WA state for ~9 years but in the Seattle area. I can't speak to the Olympia area where Dave lives but I can say that in the Seattle area, people drive much slower than Nor Cal. Speed limits on the highways there were typically 60 mph until you got further away from major cities/towns. It's not uncommon for people to drive below the speed limit in the fast lane for no reason there and hold up traffic (not move over when cars are piling up).

Thanks, that may explain it.

I am leaning towards holding off on the Leaf. There is still enough life left in my 2007 Prius at this time to make it hard to justify switching cars just yet.

The Leaf is also not a good replacement for the Prius due to the range issue.
The Volt is adequate, but but too pricey.
The PIP has a very low electric range and apparently EV mode only works up to 60 mph so is not all that useful for half my daily commute where I drive faster than that.

The Tesla S with 60 or 85 kWh battery looks like it would be the best fit for all my trips, planned and unplanned. The price is very high, of course. Maybe in 2-5 years we can afford one. Or who knows if the PIP will have a larger battery and allow EV mode at all speeds by then ...