Dealer Bricked my Leaf?

[RecklessMaker]

Howdy All,

At the beginning of August I picked up a used 2016 S (30kWh). It's in good shape, but the battery was below 9 bars so I took it in for a warranty replacement. The dealer ran their tests, confirmed that the battery was indeed eligible for warranty replacement, and submitted the claim to Nissan. They said it could be up to 10 months for a new battery, so I could have the car in the meantime. However, when I went to pick it up, the traction battery was completely dead and would no longer charge. Plugged in my OBD scanner and the reason is an isolation fault. (P0AA6, codes attached

)

Here's where things get dicey. The dealer has been no help whatsoever at this point. When I asked what they did to the car that made it no longer charge, they essentially couldn't tell me. My service writer just kept repeating "the battery is bad" and threatened to charge for additional diagnostics when I pushed further. Basically "you're getting a new battery for free, what more do you want from us?"

The thing is that it looks like I won't be getting a new battery. Nissan called on 9/29 to request some paperwork so they could make a buyback offer. The possibility of getting a 40 kWh G1 Leaf is incredibly tantalizing given what I paid for the car, but the Nissan rep was letting nothing slip regarding any potential ETA on a new battery. She wouldn't even say whether it was even possible. In the meantime I'm still making payments on the car and paying for insurance even though it's undriveable and the dealer is either unable or unwilling to provide a loaner.

I have been back to the dealer multiple times since, but it has been aggravating to say the least. Went back on Saturday 9/30 to pull codes and get photos for the buyback, only to find that they had moved the car to the back lot. They said to come back at 10AM Monday (10/2) and they'd have the car moved the car out front for photos. Went back on Monday to find that they hadn't moved the car, and the service writer was now threatening to charge an hour of labor to do so. Thankfully the service manager came over and he seemed more amiable. He made me an appointment to speak with the Leaf tech first thing the next morning, and in the meantime he promised to try charging the car on 110V (only tried 240 and CHAdeMO at the dealer).

I arrived at 8AM sharp on 10/3, but the service writer was a no-show (I suspect he realized he was outmatched). After waiting for half an hour, the service manager comes out. He had forgotten to put the car on 110 and the Leaf tech was busy. I asked that he still ask the tech a) what did they do to the car? and b) why won't the car charge? After several more minutes, he came back with 'answers'. Supposedly they did nothing to the car other than read the reported capacity from the computer. And the car won't charge because the car locks out charging once the battery degrades below 75% capacity for safety reasons.

Needless to say, I don't believe either answer. What he might have meant by the second one is that the car disables charging if the voltage of one or more cells drops too low. While one of the cells was significantly lower than the others (2.797V), LeafSpy still says 'All Cells OK'. Either way, he was adamant that there was nothing they did that would have cause this issue. He did promise to have the tech pull and charge the 12V battery then try charging the car on 110V, but I wasn't confident. I have been unable to reach them since.

So now my questions. Beyond the obvious 'what should I do?', I'd like to know what the capacity test procedure is. Are they required to drive the car or disconnect anything or was the service manager correct?

I'd also like to know what the chances might be of actually getting a new battery. Has anyone actually gotten one recently or is that a thing of the past?

 

[knightmb]

Howdy All,

At the beginning of August I picked up a used 2016 S (30kWh). It's in good shape, but the battery was below 9 bars so I took it in for a warranty replacement. The dealer ran their tests, confirmed that the battery was indeed eligible for warranty replacement, and submitted the claim to Nissan. They said it could be up to 10 months for a new battery, so I could have the car in the meantime. However, when I went to pick it up, the traction battery was completely dead and would no longer charge. Plugged in my OBD scanner and the reason is an isolation fault. (P0AA6, codes attached

)

What SoC (state of charge) did you bring the Leaf to the dealership with? Unless you pulled in at 1%, sounds like they left on the Leaf in drive mode by accident and it slowly ran the battery down to nothing after a few days or weeks. Essentially, it was working when you arrived and dead when you returned, that's 100% on them. You can scan the entire Internet and you won't find anyone who had a 9 bar Leaf one day and then mysteriously had a completely depleted traction battery the next without a good reason (such as leaving it on for days by accident).

Here's where things get dicey. The dealer has been no help whatsoever at this point. When I asked what they did to the car that made it no longer charge, they essentially couldn't tell me. My service writer just kept repeating "the battery is bad" and threatened to charge for additional diagnostics when I pushed further. Basically "you're getting a new battery for free, what more do you want from us?"

Uh yeah, they aren't going to admit they really f***** up on that one. Sure, getting a new battery doesn't mean you purposely destroy the existing one since it can still be recycled for future smaller devices or power storage.

The thing is that it looks like I won't be getting a new battery. Nissan called on 9/29 to request some paperwork so they could make a buyback offer. The possibility of getting a 40 kWh G1 Leaf is incredibly tantalizing given what I paid for the car, but the Nissan rep was letting nothing slip regarding any potential ETA on a new battery. She wouldn't even say whether it was even possible. In the meantime I'm still making payments on the car and paying for insurance even though it's undriveable and the dealer is either unable or unwilling to provide a loaner.

From what I read of others here, the buyback offers can be insultingly low where as a new battery is the best financial choice if you plan on keeping it for a long time.

I have been back to the dealer multiple times since, but it has been aggravating to say the least. Went back on Saturday 9/30 to pull codes and get photos for the buyback, only to find that they had moved the car to the back lot. They said to come back at 10AM Monday (10/2) and they'd have the car moved the car out front for photos. Went back on Monday to find that they hadn't moved the car, and the service writer was now threatening to charge an hour of labor to do so. Thankfully the service manager came over and he seemed more amiable. He made me an appointment to speak with the Leaf tech first thing the next morning, and in the meantime he promised to try charging the car on 110V (only tried 240 and CHAdeMO at the dealer).

I arrived at 8AM sharp on 10/3, but the service writer was a no-show (I suspect he realized he was outmatched). After waiting for half an hour, the service manager comes out. He had forgotten to put the car on 110 and the Leaf tech was busy. I asked that he still ask the tech a) what did they do to the car? and b) why won't the car charge? After several more minutes, he came back with 'answers'. Supposedly they did nothing to the car other than read the reported capacity from the computer. And the car won't charge because the car locks out charging once the battery degrades below 75% capacity for safety reasons.

A 9 bar Leaf isn't 75% degraded. If that happened to the battery, it happened in their possession. The only way that would happen would be if they took the entire battery out and bathed it in lava for a little while to completely destroy it. That is the first that I've heard that a Leaf battery below 25% SoH won't charge, can anyone here back up that claim from the dealership? Seems like I've seen people driving 2 or 3 bar Leafs that can still charge them fine even if the range is only like 20 miles. :lol:

Needless to say, I don't believe either answer. What he might have meant by the second one is that the car disables charging if the voltage of one or more cells drops too low. While one of the cells was significantly lower than the others (2.797V), LeafSpy still says 'All Cells OK'. Either way, he was adamant that there was nothing they did that would have cause this issue. He did promise to have the tech pull and charge the 12V battery then try charging the car on 110V, but I wasn't confident. I have been unable to reach them since.

So now my questions. Beyond the obvious 'what should I do?', I'd like to know what the capacity test procedure is. Are they required to drive the car or disconnect anything or was the service manager correct?

I'd also like to know what the chances might be of actually getting a new battery. Has anyone actually gotten one recently or is that a thing of the past?

Well, you have a good start, you are documenting everything that they are doing wrong. I think they are blowing smoke up your a** with some of the explanations they have been giving you. Sounds like someone in the dealership broke something, doesn't want to admin it and just blame the customer since they will get a new battery or buyback. I'll wait for some others to comment here, we can probably work out a good strategy for you. :twisted:

 

[ReptonAU]

What is the voltage on the connected 12V battery terminals (i.e. the 12 volt circuit) when car is switched OFF?

 

[RecklessMaker]

I went back on Tuesday (10/10) and while the service manager STILL hadn't tried putting the car on 110V charge, I did FINALLY get to speak with their Leaf tech directly. He is a really nice guy and seems to know what he's talking about. Definitely a breath of fresh air!

He was of the opinion that all the issues are likely due to a dead 12V battery. In fact he said that he has personally seen P0AA6 that went away when the 12V battery was replaced.

What SoC (state of charge) did you bring the Leaf to the dealership with? Unless you pulled in at 1%, sounds like they left on the Leaf in drive mode by accident and it slowly ran the battery down to nothing after a few days or weeks.

I left the car with them at almost 100% SoC, so I think you're absolutely right. Either the 12V battery is shot and the car killed itself trying to keep it charged, or they left it in drive for the 9 days it was there. Since the 12V battery is less than 2 years old, I'm much more inclined to believe the latter.

What is the voltage on the connected 12V battery terminals (i.e. the 12 volt circuit) when car is switched OFF?

I didn't have a multimeter on me when I went back on Tuesday, but the car was totally dead. When I opened the door there were no lights, no chimes, nothing.

When I left on Tuesday the tech said he would disconnect the 12V battery, charge it up, re-connect it, put the car on charge, and call me with the results. The service manager said they would get started that evening since the car had to be moved away from the adjacent wall so it could be painted the next morning. Naturally I have yet to receive any calls, so I will be going back again today. What's really frustrating is that this is such a quick and easy thing to try, yet getting it done is like pulling teeth and they won't let me just do it myself.

I'll keep y'all posted. Unfortunately my financial situation isn't great right now so I might have to sell the car back to Nissan regardless.

 

[RecklessMaker]

Sure enough, the 12V battery tested bad. Since by this point I do not trust the dealer whatsoever, I took it to AutoZone for confirmation. Surprisingly, the dealer actually got this one right (first time since August). The battery was less than 18 months old, so my guess is that the dealer killed it by leaving it discharged for weeks. There's no way in hell they'd ever take responsibility for that though, so I didn't even bother. The battery was still under warranty, but I still had to eat the cost of a new one since AutoZone wouldn't honor it (I wasn't the original owner). Seems there's something of an epidemic of companies failing to stand behind their product but I digress.

By this point, the dealer was closed, so I dropped the new battery off the next day (10/13). That gave them most of Friday and all of Saturday to work on it. However, fast-forward to Monday (10/16) and I still have not heard anything. Tried calling that afternoon, but couldn't reach anyone. Tried calling again the next morning and still couldn't reach anyone, so I just went in person.

The Service manager said that they put the new 12V in on Saturday and there was no change, but of course they did it wrong. Literally all they did was drop it in and try starting the car; they didn't charge the 12V, clear any codes, or plug in the car. The Leaf tech wasn't even involved. I told him that they needed to clear the codes first, which mercifully they were able to do while I waited. Shocker of shockers; once they did that, the car actually showed signs of life! It would charge briefly, apparently without throwing any codes.

I asked to try for myself and thankfully they let me. They were wrong about there not being any codes (showed P0AA6), but they were right about the car charging briefly. During the brief window that the car would charge, I noticed that the 12V battery was pulling a LOT (like >10A) of current. Putting my multimeter on it showed a healthy voltage, but that wasn't saying much given it had just been charging. This was also a mistake because now the Service Manager could say "but the 12V battery was 12.6V and the car still didn't work" when I asked them to retry with a fully-charged 12V.

My guess is that the new 12V drained substantially over the 2 days it sat in the car. When the car was plugged in, the current it drew caused the 12V supply in the car to sag, browning out the BMS and causing it to fault. I asked to try a couple more times, just until LeafSpy no longer showed negative usable charge remaining, but they obstinately refused. They insist that the battery has failed and is a safety hazard, and the only thing they will let me do to the car is tow it off their property.

So basically I'm at the end of my rope. I am hesitant to have the car towed so since then they can just say "can't prove we did it" to any issues that I find. Nissan supposedly denied my request for a loaner since I hadn't owned the car for long enough, so I'm without a vehicle. I finally got a buyback offer on the 25th, but it's frankly insultingly low. And meanwhile I'm still stuck making insurance and loan payments.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Lothsahn]

I don't get why this dealership is being so defensive and hard to work with.

I would personally get approval to use a 110v outlet, bring a 12v charger and the 110v EVSE (charger). I would also have leafspy pro on your phone with an odbII adapter. You need leafspy to clear the codes yourself since they won't work with you.

Bring a set of socket wrenches so you can disconnect the 12v battery yourself. Disconnect the 12v battery, put the 12v charger on it for an hour at 10A and it should be charged enough to work.

Then reconnect the 12v to your car. Verify the lights work, etc... that the car is getting power.
Turn it on and clear ALL codes with Leafspy. Then plugin the 110v portable EVSE (or, if they have a L2 or rapid charger, use that), and verify it charges.

If so, drive it or tow it home and use it. Get the 40kW battery.

It just sounds like the 12v battery went dead. The Leaf is notorious for destroying 12v batteries, so if it did, it's probably NOT the dealer's fault. But why they haven't worked with you, I don't know.

DM me if you need any help.

 

[GerryAZ]

To add to the previous recommendations--disconnect the 12V battery for a few minutes and then reconnect it if LEAF Spy is not able to clear all of the trouble codes. There have been times when I had to disconnect/wait/reconnect/clear error codes at least 3 complete cycles in order to get all codes cleared and car operating normally.

 

[RecklessMaker]

I don't get why this dealership is being so defensive and hard to work with.

This whole dealership franchise is full of arrogant pricks. I had a similarly awful experience with the Honda dealer in the same chain. Was hoping they'd be a different company but clearly not.

They will not let me even turn a wrench on the car while it's on their property. I asked about disconnecting the 12V myself the last time and the service manager vehemently refused because he "doesn't want me to electrocute myself."

He is adamant that the traction battery has failed and is now a safety risk. Apparently the Leaf tech says so. I went back today to request they move it to the chargers out front (so I could to some surreptitiously troubleshooting) but now they won't even let me connect it to a charger on the property. " It's a liability, it could burst into flames."

I am so sick of this dealer's 'antics' (for lack of a more profane word) that I'm just going to have the car towed. When I get the car working I'm definitely going to drive it back and call them all idiots. I'll also be calling around to see if it's worth taking legal action to recoup the costs of all the time and effort I've put into fighting these clowns.

To add to the previous recommendations--disconnect the 12V battery for a few minutes and then reconnect it if LEAF Spy is not able to clear all of the trouble codes. There have been times when I had to disconnect/wait/reconnect/clear error codes at least 3 complete cycles in order to get all codes cleared and car operating normally.

Thanks for the advice I'll give this a shot once I get the car out of the dealer's moronic clutches.

 

[knightmb]

I am so sick of this dealer's 'antics' (for lack of a more profane word) that I'm just going to have the car towed. When I get the car working I'm definitely going to drive it back and call them all idiots. I'll also be calling around to see if it's worth taking legal action to recoup the costs of all the time and effort I've put into fighting these clowns.

What dealership is it, so others can avoid it in the future.

 

[RecklessMaker]

AutoNation Nissan Tempe.

Got the car towed to a level 2 charger and tried some troubleshooting. Pulled the 12V battery, put it on a 10A charger for a couple hours, and tried the 'connect 12V/start car/clear codes/plug in/unplug/disconnect 12V/wait' dance a few times to no avail.

The car is presistently throwing a new code now: P33D6 - current sensor. And for good reason: after behaving normally for a few seconds, LeafSpy shows a current draw of ~2.15 million amps. The car no longer charges, even briefly, like it did just a few weeks ago.

I'll let the 12V battery charge overnight and try again tomorrow, but my hopes aren't high.

 

[RecklessMaker]

Nope, I think she's cooked. No matter what I do, the P33D6 code will not clear. I was able to get the car to charge a bit by connecting the charger (220V) right after connecting the battery, but that's it.

The combination of the insane current reading and the isolation fault makes me think that the current sensor might be shorted to high voltage, but that's little more than a guess.

If anyone in the Phoenix area wants to take a crack at it, you're more than welcome to. It's entirely possible I was doing something wrong. I can't keep it in it's current location for long though; Monday would be pushing it.

 

[rsbrax]

Every time my 2012 Leaf has trouble starting, the problem is resolved by recharging / replacing the 12 volt battery. The dashboard lights come on but the motor will not start when the problem occurs.

Sounds like you have confirmed the 12 volt battery is NOT the culprit in your case. Is that correct?

 

[cornbinder89]

IIRC Dala had a Isolation fault on a 62Kwh pack he was working with. It also showed a draw IIRC and it turned out he was seeing voltage between the pack and chassie. Long and short of it was one cell had a problem and he had to disassemble the pack.
I could be remembering wrong, but search for Dala's 62Kwh battery video and see if the problem is the same on yours.
If it is, the battery is not going to come back without disassembly and repair/replacement of the cell leaking to ground.

 

[cornbinder89]

Dala's video

 

[cornbinder89]

Here is the video where he has the POAA6 code:

 

[cornbinder89]

Long and short of it is, you do have a bad battery pack, and it isn't just that one cell will not take a charge, but rather one cell is leaking power to chassie, which is a much bigger worry.
Replacing the pack will repair the issue, but as Dala shows the pack can be repaired if you know what you are doing. THIS IS NOT A DIY project. Notice Dala has all the protective HV tools and PPE.
There are places that repair packs, but the cost might be an insurmountable problem and will not be covered by Nissan. Dala elected to replace the stack even when the loss to chassie was removed, the labor to take it out and apart again wasn't worth the risk.
In many ways both you and the dealer are correct, you that you drove the car in and are unable to drive out and they that the car has a major isolation fault and needs a pack.

 

[Ihalsema]

Not long after I took possession of my new 2019 Leaf, the 12V battery died. I called AAA, and their mechanic came out and attached a small battery to the 12V battery’s terminals and the car powered up. The dealer replaced the 12V battery under warrant.
After reading about the problems with the 12V battery, can anyone recommend a unit like the one used by AAA? Keeping one in the trunk of the car sounds like a good idea.

 

[flydiver]

Not long after I took possession of my new 2019 Leaf, the 12V battery died. I called AAA, and their mechanic came out and attached a small battery to the 12V battery’s terminals and the car powered up. The dealer replaced the 12V battery under warrant.
After reading about the problems with the 12V battery, can anyone recommend a unit like the one used by AAA? Keeping one in the trunk of the car sounds like a good idea.

Sounds like a jump starter. This guy does a decent job of reviewing.....some.....of them. There are hoards. He also did 2022 for even more. They change constantly.
You CANNOT trust Amazon, most of the reviews (ignorant) OR the marketing (BS). They can, and will, claim anything they want to, and there is little competent vetting of these poor practices. The batteries are a critical component, which is seldom disclosed. Do a bit of homework. I've had one for years (I did a lot of reading first). It's been fine, saved me and friends a couple times.


I don't know if the charging algorithm on the newer models has improved. I have a '14 and it's poor. I got a trickle charger (yeah, more research....) and bump it at least monthly. Saves the battery in the long haul. Got a 2015 original Toyota battery still going after a couple failures.

 

[Steve52]

There are lots of battery jumper boxes on Amazon;
https://www.amazon.com/NEXPOW-18000...fos.d977788f-1483-4f76-90a3-786e4cdc8f10&th=1

 

[cornbinder89]

I had supercapcator cranking on one of my semi's. I was the size of one gp 31 battery, weighed about 20-25 lbs and could crank a big bore diesel at -25F by itself. It doesn't give a lot of cranking 30-45 sec but will recharge at a supply voltage down to 10 volts supply
That is what I'd like to find scaled down to car starting size. No battery.