Brodergate: "low-grade ethics violation"

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
SanDust said:
See the problem? Broder charges to 72% at Milford, drives 79 miles to Groton, and has 25 miles of range left the next morning.
There is indeed a well reported problem with S - consuming too much energy at night. It also showed very pessimistic range in the morning.

But that is not the reason Broder ran out of charge.

Apart from that, there are obvious inconsistencies between Tesla provided data and Broder's account. Only one of them can be correct.
 
evnow said:
thankyouOB said:
evnow said:
Brodering : v. Deliberately run out of charge and stall an EV. Could also be because of ignorance or criminal negligence.

Nope. this is a definition and there is no solid evidence of that: Deliberately run out of charge and stall an EV.
You should read the second part, too.

so then it covers all forms of running to empty, and there is no need to add deliberately, or by ignorance or neglect.
therefore, the definition would remain: to run an EV battery to empty requiring a tow or mobile charge.


it can just be
 
evnow said:
Brodering : v. Deliberately run out of charge and stall an EV. Could also be because of ignorance or criminal negligence.
How soon we forget. Were these folks "criminally negligent" or simply "ignorant"?

Suspect #1:

Yes. I am out of power. Went from 17 to --- to turtle to dead in about 5 miles. 2.3 miles from dealer. 4.2 miles from home. Part of me is amused that I may go down in history as the first dumbass to drive the car into submission. But I am slightly shaky and upset as I thought there should have been no problem getting home.

Ah well my experience was less than a mile in turtle.


Suspect #2:

Maybe you are the first, but it happened to me too! On 2/22 I was driving back from SeaTac airport back home, with 26 "miles" on the range estimation. Trip distance was ~ 15 miles. Some driving on I-5, eco mode on, no heating (at 32 F outside temp!) and around downtown the range is down to 8 miles (still plenty to get home, which was by then 5 miles away). At the ship-canal bridge it went into turtle, I barely got off the freeway. 2 Mile from home and after about half the distance it told I would have from the airport, i.e. 13 actual miles driven, it went dead. I actually managed to drive 400 yards in turtle mode. 10:30 pm, wife and screaming kids in the car (which was blocking the right lane of a busy road), just came back from the east coast, cars zooming by and honking, several near misses, I called Nissan for help.
 
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13633-NYT-article-Stalled-on-the-EV-Highway/page93?p=277473&viewfull=1#post277473" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A well written piece showing clear falsification by Broder.

The claims Broder makes in this article are not reflective of his actual driving experience between Wilmington and Manhattan. His story, as written, reflects a highly negative experience that simply did not take place. If a journalist interviewed a source who relayed this story, and then later discovered these logs detailing the actual drive, I cannot see how he would conclude the story is anything but a fabrication created to relate a fictional experience.
 
thankyouOB said:
so then it covers all forms of running to empty, and there is no need to add deliberately, or by ignorance or neglect.
Spoilsport.

(what you say is linguistically not correct, though).
 
evnow said:
They didn't broder their cars ;)
Oops. Yeah I forgot. They "Maliked" them. http://live.wsj.com/video/taking-the-nissan-leaf-for-a-test-drive/F42A143D-BB80-4294-BC51-E96A2BF71090.html#!F42A143D-BB80-4294-BC51-E96A2BF71090" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ;)
 
SanDust said:
See the problem? Broder charges to 72% at Milford, drives 79 miles to Groton, and has 25 miles of range left the next morning. Since Musk agrees this was the case, he's admitting that a 72% charge for a Tesla Model S Performance gives a range of 104 miles (79 miles + 25 miles). Simple algebra then tells you this means the total range of a new Model S Performance is .... drumroll .... 144.44 miles. That's less than half the 300 miles Tesla usually claims and well below the range Tesla says you should get when going 80 MPH with the heat blasting.

You're mixing variables. The overnight consumption, while possibly something Tesla needs to revise, is not a valid part of the car's "total range". The EPA range is not 300 miles, and Tesla does advise about the cold-weather effects.

The range is not 144 miles. Sanity check 1: CNN completed the route with range to spare. Sanity Check 2: Broder himself made 200 miles on 90% charge.
 
Ulterior motives aside, be thankful Malik and Broder never took up flying.

Until there's public charging on every corner, EVs are a poor choice for the tech averse. Compared to setting your profile picture on FB it doesn't seem that complicated, but the clock on this guy's microwave is probably eternally blinking 12:00.
 
CNN said:
The key issue is not the car itself, but the location of charging stations, since the Tesla (TSLA) battery pack is good for only 270 miles.
The most scary part of the trip: the 200 miles between charging stations in Newark, Del., and Milford, Conn. That's not a lot of cushion...

LOL..What some call "cushion" I call daily range... I like the comment about the 40 extra miles being like a Volt... It puts the amazing Tesla capabilities in perspective.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
....snip....Until there's public charging on every corner, EVs are a poor choice for the tech averse. Compared to setting your profile picture on FB it doesn't seem that complicated, but the clock on this guy's microwave is probably eternally blinking 12:00.
Well, there may not be one on every corner, but there certainly were plenty if he really wanted to stop:
routestations.jpg
 
Reddy said:
LTLFTcomposite said:
....snip....Until there's public charging on every corner, EVs are a poor choice for the tech averse. Compared to setting your profile picture on FB it doesn't seem that complicated, but the clock on this guy's microwave is probably eternally blinking 12:00.
Well, there may not be one on every corner, but there certainly were plenty if he really wanted to stop:

he was testing the supercharging network. that was the thesis for the story.
 
Not sure if this was posted already somewhere....

What we learned from our Tesla Model S drive:
http://www.money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s-lessons/index.html?iid=EL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Nubo said:
You're mixing variables. The overnight consumption, while possibly something Tesla needs to revise, is not a valid part of the car's "total range". The EPA range is not 300 miles, and Tesla does advise about the cold-weather effects.

The range is not 144 miles. Sanity check 1: CNN completed the route with range to spare. Sanity Check 2: Broder himself made 200 miles on 90% charge.
Parking the car is part what you do, right? It's just that when you park your car you don't expect to lose range at a rate of 10 miles per hour. In fact we don't know whether the car lost range or the estimate was correctly calibrated after it sat for a while.

This is Tesla's graph that they claim shows Broder consciously tried to sabotage the car. Look at what happens at 400 miles. The range goes from what looks like 80 to 20 miles. http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Tesla-graphic-2.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What you are saying is that if you park your car at a rest stop and eat dinner and then get back into the car, all the range losses that occur when you are eating can't be counted when calculating the range of the car. I guess that's OK but it looks like the Model S loses more range just sitting there for eight hours than the Leaf has in the first place. Basically the deal is that if you're going on a trip in the Model S you can't stop! No pedal to the metal but definitely pedal down. :lol:
 
Over the years I've spent many, many hours on the phone supporting computer software, hardware and related tech issues for end users.

Some were bright, some not so much. Some were very bright and very educated, but were simply not technical animals. They were experts in their field, made staggering salaries and could argue like lawyers - but did not fathom computers in the slightest, nor did they care to. They could follow simple step by step instructions (generally) and that was sufficient to get them out of trouble, and out of my hair.

I strongly suspect that Broder, rather than being a deliberate saboteur as some insist, is simply one of those guys. As I recall, his journalism background is not in tech at all (though he reported on tech industries). He was a White House reporter and held various other political and economics-related journalism posts over the years. He was given the Tesla assignment by a NY Times editor; he did not seek it out (although he stated he was pleased to do it).

I believe it is mentioned somewhere in the coverage of this story that he made a great number of phone calls to Tesla during the assignment, IIRC about ten or twelve. I can understand two or three calls, but the number he made suggests to me a guy who needed constant handholding, i.e., he didn't have much confidence in his own ability to understand or assess the situations he was in from a technical point of view, and unfortunately, that meant he didn't have a handle on what that meant in terms of range. In other words, to be somewhat less than charitable, Broder didn't have a clue. He is a tech klutz, who was probably a bit embarrassed about that, but since he has a very respectable general intelligence level, he was deemed capable of reporting this story. It's even possible that he was assigned it because he had no tech background or savvy.

Circling back around to where I started, my experience dealing with guys like Broder convinces me it's quite possible he had no intent to screw up so badly, it's just that there's precious little difference in the results that a tech klutz can achieve inadvertently and those of a true saboteur. Example: I once took a frantic call from a badly overworked, vastly overpaid consultant who needed a replacement $3,000 solid-state-drive ultrabook overnighted to him; he had backed out of his garage and run over his old one, which he'd absentmindedly left in the driveway for a few minutes.

It's a paradigm change, folks, and there's a portion of the public - even New York Times writers - that just won't make a smooth transition to the future, whether they're for it or against it. We need to keep that in mind, and do our best to pave the road as smoothly as possible for them.

By the way, it's good that Elon is a successful serial entrepreneur of disruptive technologies. He would not do well in tech support...
 
timhebb said:
It's a paradigm change, folks, and there's a portion of the public - even New York Times writers - that just won't make a smooth transition to the future, whether they're for it or against it. We need to keep that in mind, and do our best to pave the road as smoothly as possible for them.

My wife is of the type you describe. She doesn't know how to use a computer yet; barely knows how to use her basic, flip-style mobile phone from like 5 years ago; and many times I have caught her in the kitchen blindly pressing buttons on the microwave trying to get it to do what she wants. The only time she has driven my LEAF thus far is when I've been there to guide her through starting it, getting it into D, and then her following me (or vice-versa) while I'm driving another car.
 
timhebb said:
Circling back around to where I started, my experience dealing with guys like Broder convinces me it's quite possible he had no intent to screw up so badly, it's just that there's precious little difference in the results that a tech klutz can achieve inadvertently and those of a true saboteur.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. :lol:
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
Ulterior motives aside, be thankful Malik and Broder never took up flying.

Until there's public charging on every corner, EVs are a poor choice for the tech averse. Compared to setting your profile picture on FB it doesn't seem that complicated, but the clock on this guy's microwave is probably eternally blinking 12:00.


guess you did not see the map Elon posted that showed a charger on every corner. Is it the "tech adverse" we have to worry about or the "math challenged?" (51 miles to go with 30 some of range) or maybe what we need to worry about is people with an agenda?

lets not make the mistake of thinking that what this reporter did is something we would commonly expect to see. if that is not what your comment was meant to say, please enlighten me
 
evnow said:
Brodering : v. Deliberately run out of charge and stall an EV. Could also be because of ignorance or criminal negligence.
:lol:

On a sober note: Imagine what you and I could do with a car (like Leaf) with a 260 mile range. Fer god's sake! Life would be so easy, would it not?

I have had a couple of range decisions to make on recent trips. One was stop at Nissan for 15 minutes or keep going; the other make a store stop or head straight home? Both times I went for it and came limping home (read 54 mph or less) with 3 lines blinking at me.

Ranging - it's an art now. Kid you not.
 
Back
Top