Brodergate: "low-grade ethics violation"

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Slate: Tesla Motors vs John Broder
teslamnl


Soon, the entire tech press is going to be writing about this. Let's hope that it will end on an upbeat note.
 
the tit for tat back and forth is not really edifying, and it will be impossible to tell where the truth is.
i doubt this NYT reporter set out to screw tesla.
i think tesla could have set up the test better.
the reporter could have done a more workmanlike job of testing the car and charger string, by actually behaving like a real tesla owner trying to get where he was going .

what really matters to me is that Tesla is playing the wrong game here. EVs strengths are not long-distance drives in the cold.
if folks here wanted to devise a harder hurdle, could we?
there are lots of reasons to drive EVs; they reduce air pollution, cut greenhouse gas emissions and reduce dependence on petroleum.
we all know that they work and work well. they are fun and efficient, and save money on fuel.
the reality is that we need a real alternative to petroleum-powered personal transportation. saying you could spend the same money for a bmw or lexus and get better results, with money left over for gasoline, is not recognizing that we have a real problem with melting polar ice caps, extreme weather, rising sea levels, not to mention melanoma, all of which can be traced to our addiction for fossil fuel use.
 
thankyouOB said:
EVs strengths are not long-distance drives in the cold.
if folks here wanted to devise a harder hurdle, could we?
Yes. The same thing, but uphill. Like the battle Tesla is fighting :)
 
thankyouOB said:
the tit for tat back and forth is not really edifying, and it will be impossible to tell where the truth is.
i doubt this NYT reporter set out to screw tesla.
i think tesla could have set up the test better.
the reporter could have done a more workmanlike job of testing the car and charger string, by acutally behaving like a real tesla owner trying to get where he was going .

what really matters to me is that Tesla is playing the wrong game here. EVs strengths are not long-distance drives in the cold.
if folks here wanted to devise a harder hurdle, could we?
there are lots of reasons to drive EVs; they reduce air pollution, cut greenhouse gas emissions and reduce dependence on petroleum.
we all know that they work and work well. they are fun and efficient, and save money on fuel.
the reality is that we need a real alternative to petroleum-powered personal transportation. saying you could spend the same money for a bmw or lexus and get better results, with money left over for gasoline, is not recognizing that we have a real problem with melting polar ice caps, extreme weather, rising sea levels, not to mention melanoma, all of which can be traced to our addiction for fossil fuel use.
+1!

At least one minor benefit (depending on one's point of view) is resulting from this raging feud: controversies involving the LEAF have receded to the distant background. It's a relief that Tesla, for now at least, has assumed the lightning rod position for EV attacks to play out.
 
surfingslovak said:
Slate: Tesla Motors vs John Broder
teslamnl


Soon, the entire tech press is going to be writing about this. Let's hope that it will end on an upbeat note.

He makes a decent case on a number of points and by his account some of Tesla's representatives sound surprisingly clueless. That being said, if they did give the advice he claims, he seems all too willing to hang Tesla by their own rope, in a manner of speaking:

I placed the first of about a dozen calls to Tesla personnel expressing concern about the car’s declining range and asking how to reach the Supercharger station in Milford, Conn. I was given battery-conservation advice at that time (turn off the cruise control; alternately slow down and speed up to take advantage of regenerative braking)...

I'm not sure what bona fides are required to become "Washington bureau reporter responsible for coverage of energy, environment and climate change", but it seems to me that such a person would have enough of an education to reject the notion of perpetual motion implicit in the slow-down/speed-up advice. In fact I'd expect any reasonably intelligent Junior-High-schooler to see through that one.

Likewise, he left the final charging spot with insufficient range because Tesla told him to?

Some of this still doesn't wash.

If the purpose was to report on utilization of Tesla's super-charge stations, why undercharge at every opportunity? If the task is to utilize the equipment, what point is served by deliberately UNDER-utilizing the equipment? It doesn't make any sense. Does the NYT feel the need to belabor the point that if you under-utilize the equipment enough, you will run out of power?

If the point is that the car's range estimator is inaccurate (a legitimate issue), or that the impact of cold temperatures is signficant (a legitimate issue), or that an hour is too long to wait (a subjective issue), those points could just as easily been made having done the trip with full charges. And for better or worse, without the drama of a flatbed. Cutting it close was not proper for the task at hand, not a proper task for a first-time driver, or a reporter who has purportedly done such little research that they have to call Tesla for advice a dozen times! Seriously? A reporter responsible for energy coverage in DC, for one of the world's premier news organizations, and has covered electric vehicles in the past, who has no idea about public charging stations?

And what's this about frozen feet and knuckles turning white? Because the CC was set to 65F for a bit? That's where I put it when I've got a heavy jacket on, so I don't sweat. This guy's ready for the morgue??

While some of Tesla's conclusions may be off the mark, Broder has spun a tale that is just a little too cute, imho.
 
Nubo said:
... or a reporter who has purportedly done such little research that they have to call Tesla for advice a dozen times!

That's all for show... Look at me, I even called the factory office and STILL had to get a flatbed.

Gosh, how yummy does oil look now?
 
TomT said:
However this eventually plays out, I believe that Tesla and EVs in general will ultimately be the losers...
Why ?

Check in your office - and see how many people know about this "controversy" and what their opinion is.

No one in my office has talked to me about this - though, they all know about my Leaf etc.
 
TomT said:
However this eventually plays out, I believe that Tesla and EVs in general will ultimately be the losers...
The guy is an idiot. If I were testing a vehicle in the cold, I would fully charge it at the super charger and then see how it drives. The time to cut it close is after you know the vehicle well. Lots of people drive their gas car a bit farther when the gauge says "Empty", but most know about how far they can go without getting stranded. Only an idiot does this when he doesn't know anything about the car... or if he wants to show the car in a bad light rather than see you can make the trip pretty easily if you charge your vehicle properly and drive at a reasonable speed.
 
evnow said:
TomT said:
However this eventually plays out, I believe that Tesla and EVs in general will ultimately be the losers...
Why ?
I believe TomT's right, because the damage has already been done. Many will only remember the initial story, not the rebuttals. The anti-EV people or those w/misinformation can use this as their "ammo" to spread the same FUD to others who don't know any better/anything about EVs. :(

You should see the idiotic responses by http://priuschat.com/members/spinnaker87.85055/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; who seems rather anti-EV and pro-FCV (for some bizarre reason). I think he's got a huge amount of misinformation about both.

Here's one of his ridiculous assertions after Musk's blog (from http://priuschat.com/threads/tesla-driving-logs-contradict-nyt-claims.122198/page-2#post-1741448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):
the reporter was not lying... Tesla is nit picking with the data.. and guess what? life does not happen as scripted.. sometimes you have a detour.. sometimes you go over the speed limit with traffic.. sometimes you miss an exit.. sometimes it's really cold... sometimes the car will show a certain number of miles of range.. and the next morning it shows another (read the Tesla thread.. many owners report serious reductions in range when parking in the cold)

instead of dealing with the issues Tesla is more interested in shooting the messenger.

it's a commuter car that needs to be plugged in every night.

it is not a long range road trip car.. that's more than evident from this episode.. not that the reporter was somehow lying.
I wonder how many others are there like him?
 
cwerdna said:
I wonder how many others are there like him?
Doesn't matter. Those are guys who were not open to EVs to begin with.

Just look at any article covering this article in mainstream press. There are a lot of people arguing in favor of Tesla & against Broder. This is almost unheard off - normally in mainstream press, EV articles get comments filled with vitriol against EVs.
 
evnow said:
cwerdna said:
I wonder how many others are there like him?
Doesn't matter. Those are guys who were not open to EVs to begin with.

Just look at any article covering this article in mainstream press. There are a lot of people arguing in favor of Tesla & against Broder. This is almost unheard off - normally in mainstream press, EV articles get comments filled with vitriol against EVs.

I'm actually pleasantly surprised with the outcome. The TeaBag contingent of Neanderthals with their Faux Nooze talking points seems to be, finally, getting their asses handed to them.
 
actually, for EVs and especially for Tesla this is big winner.
as Dennis Rodman would says "the only bad publicity is your obituary."

Tesla couldnt buy this much brand identity and advertising for love or money. Now, they are all over the news. And CNN hasnt reported their positive test run yet.
this story isnt going away soon.
this is very good visibility for EVs, and soon the focus will be on what they do really better than an ICE.
 
Actually, I'm kind of the default EV expert at work and I have had three people come up to me this week and ask about it. So, yeah, it does have some traction, at least among the engineers I work with...

evnow said:
Check in your office - and see how many people know about this "controversy" and what their opinion is.
 
I'm anxious to see CNN's story after their reporter makes the same trip. Though it would never happen I'd also love to see Tesla itself make the trip in a big SUV:

Calculate range = EPA highway MPG * fuel tank size
fill tank with just enough gas to make the trip at rated MPG
drive 70-80
make detour
stop when fuel low bell chimes
call tow truck
 
walterbays said:
I'm anxious to see CNN's story after their reporter makes the same trip. Though it would never happen I'd also love to see Tesla itself make the trip in a big SUV:

Calculate range = EPA highway MPG * fuel tank size
fill tank with just enough gas to make the trip at rated MPG
drive 70-80
make detour
stop when fuel low bell chimes
call tow truck

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/15/autos/tesla-model-s/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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