100 kW Charging

[hornstudio]

This thread is about 62kWh LEAF version only, charged with 200A machines.

 

[ramisalah]

I have yet to see anything published that shows significant damage is done to the latest Nissan battery chemistry using DCFC. If the battery is getting too warm, then the charge rate may significantly drop off. I have never had 9 temperature bars. 10 is the last white bar and 11 and 12 are red. I generally don't see charge drop off more than 20-25%. I think much of the complaining is from the Gen 1 Leafs. This post includes a user who has gotten into the red temperature bars several times and his SOH is quite good for the age and mileage of his Leaf.

Again, I see a Nissan corporate effort here to create ambiguity. Do you have data supporting the statement: "I think much of the complaining is from the Gen 1 Leafs". If there is no data, why even make statements like this except to confuse?

 

[ramisalah]

I don't get it. Why would anyone want to charge a battery which doesn't have active thermal management, at a 50kw rate? Or is this something you do only occasionally while on an unexpectedly long trip?

The simple statement was that the Nissan Leaf has no battery cooling (fact) and batteries get warm while charging (fact). So when the Nissan Leaf is at the "optimum" temperature, it gets warmer when plugged in (fact) and the warming causes the temperature to be higher than optimum thus dropping the charging rate below the most optimum. I hope that's clear.
For anyone that is discussing battery damage, there was no mention of that. The statement is simply regarding the possibility of achieving the most optimum charging rate.
As to your question: ("Why would anyone want to charge a battery which doesn't have active thermal management, at a 50kw rate?"), are you saying that no one should want to charge the Nissan Leaf? This is how this car is designed and built.

 

[BillAinCT]

Sorry for not following your thread rules. Your statement that the battery gets warmer should be annotated that this doesn't significantly harm the battery. And the slowdown for the first charge isn't as significant as you make it or want it to be. Yes, it does get warmer, Nissan doesn't say that it doesn't. I have achieved over 70kW charging down to 60+kW several times and this is above the Nissan statement for maximum, and I, for one am much happier than getting 42kW at a 50kW charger. So I am quite happy with the charging speed of the LEAF and it is the most optimum charging rate in my case. I won't speak for others.

 

[BillAinCT]

And since the Nissan Leaf battery warms up very quickly upon plugging it in (as we all know), the 64 kW/hour rate is a fleeting leprechaun that is extremely improbable for Leaf drivers to experience.

Here you are the first to mention battery warming. Is there data to support this "warms up very quickly" or are you stating this? I don't agree with adding one or temp bars over the time I need to charge "very quickly".

 

[ramisalah]

Here you are the first to mention battery warming. Is there data to support this "warms up very quickly" or are you stating this? I don't agree with adding one or temp bars over the time I need to charge "very quickly".

Please post a video of your 70+ charging rate and the battery temperature at intervals during the charging (beginning and every 5-10 minutes).

 

[Chad E. Mo]

As a point of reference, in January, my SV+ pack temp went from 72F to 91F @ 48kW.
Ambient temp = 36F.
During the first dcfc
SoC: from 45% charging up to 95%

In October of 23, pack temps reached 125F on the third dcfc of a 600 mi trip. Ambient = 65F

 

[BillAinCT]

Please post a video of your 70+ charging rate and the battery temperature at intervals during the charging (beginning and every 5-10 minutes).

You collect the data since you want it so badly. This thread (per you) is the best rate one has seen DC charging and I answered that part.

 

[ramisalah]

You collect the data since you want it so badly. This thread (per you) is the best rate one has seen DC charging and I answered that part.

I have collected evidence and posted pictures of the sub 50kW charging rates. You indicated you have achieved 70+ kW plus charging rates. Post the evidence. If not, don't make statements you cannot back up.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

The car charged faster.than the ev6 and bolt charging nearby.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

Interesting how it started to taper before 41%

 

[ramisalah]

The car charged faster.than the ev6 and bolt charging nearby.

It shows that 20.2 kW were delivered and that was equivalent to 40% (20% to 60%). 20.2 kW in the Leaf is 32 - 33%. These numbers don't jive. Maybe there is a good explanation

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

My Leaf has only about 52-53KW usable, which is 20.8kWh.

 

[knightmb]

It shows that 20.2 kW were delivered and that was equivalent to 40% (20% to 60%). 20.2 kW in the Leaf is 32 - 33%. These numbers don't jive. Maybe there is a good explanation

20.2 kW/h delivered. The Leaf didn't start at 0 kWh.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

The display went from 20% to 60% ... net gain of 40%, methinks. But, as pointed out 20.2kWh is not 40% of 62kWh.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

62kWh is nit usable. This is 2019 Leaf Plus, which had 52-53kWh usable at this point (though has since gone up a bit).

 

[ramisalah]

The car charged faster.than the ev6 and bolt charging nearby.

Below is how the charging session went with the data I got from the video. The 70+ charging rate was only maintained for 10 minutes or so after which, the rate experienced major drops and was at about 50 within 13 minutes. The session's average charging rate is 62.4. That is far from the 100 kW in the manual and on the chargers. I know the ardent Nissan supporters will say that Nissan just put a 100 kW in their advertising but they never claimed the could meet that rate. Companies that are ethical and want to maintain goodwill and a good reputation with the consumer don't play such games. It behooves Nissan to clearly state that 20% to 80% will only achieve an average rate in the 60's. The chart below stopped at 60%. Just like it was dropping every few minutes, one could expect it to drop again as it went beyond 60%. The numbers are clear. Let's see how the spinners are going to spin this one!

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I believe the only place.you can hit 100KW is the Nissan headquarters. No one else builds out 300amp chademos as it requires liquid cooling. Top rate I have seen in the wild is 80KW.

 

[nlspace]

So it charged from 20 to 60 in 20 minutes, and looks like it would have exactly met the specs assuming +10: to 70% and +15: to 80%, 20 to 80% in about 45 minutes at a high output 100kW Chademo station.




The "(100kW)" refers to the type of Chademo station, not the rate. Just like the 240 V station spec does not specify a "rate" but only the length of time to reach full.

 

[ramisalah]

So it charged from 20 to 60 in 20 minutes, and looks like it would have exactly met the specs assuming +10: to 70% and +15: to 80%, 20 to 80% in about 45 minutes at a high output 100kW Chademo station.

View attachment 4088
View attachment 4089

The "(100kW)" refers to the type of Chademo station, not the rate. Just like the 240 V station spec does not specify a "rate" but only the length of time to reach full.

This was 20% to 60% of a 52 kWh battery, not a 62 kWh battery. 80% of a 62 kW in 45 minutes is a rate of 66. The average of the above is well below that before even going up to 80% which would have had further drops in rate as the graph shows.
No telling what the rate would've dropped down to next! It went down to 44% within 20 minutes and at 60% SOC.