1 Year "Battery Check" Results

[PDXLeafer]

The problem with this approach is that you could have a 14% reduction in battery capacity, and the Leaf will still show 12 bars...

The approach might be 'wrong' for most, but the approach won't impact the fact that 14% reduction in battery capacity might not show up on the 'count the bars' method. That fact would remain even if I never drove the car

I figure that real-world testing is the best way to show the EV haters that EVs do, in fact, make sense. I am NOT purposely damaging or abusing the vehicle in any way, but at the end of the day, it is a car. It gets me from A to B and is very economical. I am not going to baby it!

 

[Reddy]

From Google Earth, it looks like about 8 miles from LBW to turtle. Roughly 1000 foot climb.

Was the 1000 foot climb during that 8 miles? If so, that's pretty good.

From my high school physics, I estimated 1.35 kWH per 1000 ft elevation rise for a 1620 kg mass. Isn't that about 3/4 of a "normal" bar? That seems like a pretty good feat, but I haven't visited LBW very often to get a good feel for it.

Reddy

 

[hill]

Don't ever expect any detailed pack info, Nissan has removed some of the previous detail on the original consult so dealers can no longer see it. All detailed info is sent to Nissan for no one to see. My guess is they don't want you to see any degradation until it is much more advanced.

If I recall correctly - garygid got a battery check around April last year (not too long after his delivery ... showing plenty of detail). I hope he'll weigh in on this. It seemed like Cerritos Nissan had just gotten their equipment in, so it was kind of a benefit for both parties. Hope my memory isn't too flaky. So ... now dealers can't see the detail (nor you the consumer)? If true, what's the rational? What if I WANT that data. Is there supposed to be some tacit understanding that we must never know? If so ... then why? I'd like to know. I ought to be able to know. I mean sure ... if I go into a Nissan service center under a recall for replacement of a defective wheel spindle ... then YES ... the dealer gets to keep the spindle. But if you PAY for the service ... the law says that YOU get to keep any/all parts that you may decide to keep. See where I'm going?

Anybody feel like paying for the "Battery Check" out of pocket? Think of the fun! See how THEY like it. YOU got the info ... and Nissan doesn't. Later on down the road, you the consumer would be armed to the teeth ... with any/all information that you may need to make a case for premature battery failure. This is a can of worms that's REALLY in need of being opened. How much does the check cost after the first two "free but top secret" checks are done ... anybody know?

 

[Ingineer]

Here's all you get from the battery check:

The dealer can read the individual cell voltages, and low-resolution true SOC, but really not much else. The battery ECU spits out all kinds of interesting stats when queried properly though.

-Phil

 

[gasmiser1]

I'll be taking my LEAF in for the 1 year battery check this Monday. Leaf has 15,800+ miles on it now. I'll be taking it in 6 weeks early since I have Monday off work.

QUESTION:

Do I bring in the car with 80% charge or 100% charge? Does it matter? I'm only 5 miles from the dealership.

 

[kolmstead]

gasmiser1: For the required annual battery use test, state of charge doesn't matter. It appears, based on the report generated, that the usage check just downloads some history from the battery management system; it doesn't try to determine actual battery condition.

The cell pair voltage test, which is not normally part of the annual battery check, is best done with the battery mostly discharged. In my case, reported several pages back, the dealer performed the test when the SOC was probably too high to give meaningful data.

-Karl

 

[MrFish]

Just did my 15k battery check and the report looks the same as everyone else, 5/5 stars in all categories.

I charge twice a day. 80% at home each night and again at work to 80-100% depending on what time I leave work. I assumed that might be a little stressful on the battery, however the report would indicate otherwise (depending on if you believe it or not)

Now I'm wondering if anyone has received a report less than "very high and good" 5/5 stars, and if so was your charging/usage method the cause? I'm assuming that multiple charges a day to 100% in cold weather would be a worst case scenario?

If charging to 100% is not showing up negatively on the reports, is there a good reason to keep charging to only 80%?

 

[TEG]

Why doesn't Nissan just have all the battery health info auto-upload through Carwings so you don't have to bring the car into a dealer?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Why doesn't Nissan just have all the battery health info auto-upload through Carwings so you don't have to bring the car into a dealer?

Same reason they offer the check for free or threes same reason a supermarket others a coupon for Ann item sold at a loss

 

[EVDRIVER]

Why doesn't Nissan just have all the battery health info auto-upload through Carwings so you don't have to bring the car into a dealer?

Because the data would not make it to the destination in one piece.

 

[DaveEV]

I charge twice a day. 80% at home each night and again at work to 80-100% depending on what time I leave work. I assumed that might be a little stressful on the battery, however the report would indicate otherwise (depending on if you believe it or not)

What in particular would be hard on the battery? Charging multiple times to 80% in a day is not bad - it's only charging to 100% without dropping below 80% that's bad as this increases the amount of time spent at high SOC.

I'm assuming that multiple charges a day to 100% in cold weather would be a worst case scenario?

Cold weather is good for battery longevity. Hot weather is not.

Worst case scenario is multiple quick charges during the day to over 80% when ambient temperatures are high and rapidly draining the battery with high speed freeway driving in between QCs, then letting the car sit in high temperatures at/near 100% charge.

If charging to 100% is not showing up negatively on the reports, is there a good reason to keep charging to only 80%?

It all depends on how much time the car spends at/near 100%. It sounds like your car may only spend a handful of hours on a day you charge to 100% - and you don't do that very regularly.

 

[smkettner]

Why doesn't Nissan just have all the battery health info auto-upload through Carwings so you don't have to bring the car into a dealer?

Once a year or once a month or if an event lowered the rating a screen could pop up right before the annoying CW approval.
I doubt the dealer equipment does anything but read data. Just display it upon request already.

 

[LEAFfan]

Worst case scenario is multiple quick charges during the day to over 80% when ambient temperatures are high and rapidly draining the battery with high speed freeway driving in between QCs, then letting the car sit in high temperatures at/near 100% charge.[

Actually, the battery pack can be QCd up to 6 times a day (to 80% SOC in the high temps of AZ) without causing any damage, as long as the battery pack temp gauge is outside the red.
Also, as EV Driver said, there is no need to charge to 100% for balancing. The BMS does it without any help needed. My source is the techs at ECOtality who have been testing the LEAF's battery packs for years in the highest heat. One time when the battery pack reached 122 F, they said it went straight to 'turtle' and immediately shut down. So there are many safeguards to protect the battery packs.

 

[DaveEV]

Actually, the battery pack can be QCd up to 6 times a day (to 80% SOC in the high temps of AZ) without causing any damage, as long as the battery pack temp gauge is outside the red.

That's simply not possible. Your battery pack is aging as we speak. Subjecting the battery to quick charges and high temperatures accelerates that process. Also, there is no limit to the number of QCs one can perform a day and 6/day certainly isn't some special limit - the only limit would be the time required to charge / discharge the battery. If one were determined enough could easily subject the battery to over 20 QCs in a single day as long as battery temps remained out of the red.

Also, as EV Driver said, there is no need to charge to 100% for balancing. The BMS does it without any help needed.

Evidence required - the only evidence that there is any significant amount of balancing done happens after a 100% charge.

My source is the techs at ECOtality who have been testing the LEAF's battery packs for years in the highest heat. One time when the battery pack reached 122 F, they said it went straight to 'turtle' and immediately shut down. So there are many safeguards to protect the battery packs.

So what happens when the battery pack only only manages to hit 120 F and doesn't shut down? Things are still hunky dory?

There are very good reasons Nissan doesn't want you to store the battery pack in high ambient temps and suggests that one doesn't QC more than once a day to maximize battery life.

Can you ignore that advice? Sure - but eventually it will show up as reduced capacity. Maybe not this year. Maybe not the next. But do it for 5+ years and you'll definitely see the effects.

 

[Herm]

Can you ignore that advice? Sure - but eventually it will show up as reduced capacity. Maybe not this year. Maybe not the next. But do it for 5+ years and you'll definitely see the effects.

6 QC a day would mean driving 390 miles every day.. you wont be able to do that for 5 years.

 

[TomT]

My experience with Gary's SOC meter would seem to indicate otherwise, as discussed elsewhere in another thread...

Also, as EV Driver said, there is no need to charge to 100% for balancing. The BMS does it without any help needed.

 

[palmermd]

So what happens when the battery pack only only manages to hit 120 F and doesn't shut down? Things are still hunky dory?

I suspect not. I don't know for sure, but I would think that you will start loosing power bubbles like the loss of regen bubbles when the car is fully charged. As temp goes up you will lose the highest power bubbles until at 120F you may be down to just one bubble and it will severely limit your ability to drive the car. I bet this is documented in the service manual somewhere. I found the maximum power at each power bubble, but not what conditions limit them.

Power meter segments ON/OFF parameters
Segments —  Power (kw)   Motor power
9                    72
8                    64
7                    56
6                    48
5                    40
4                    32
3                    24
2                    16
1                     8
—
0
Regeneration power
1                     6
2                    12
3                    18
4                    24

 

[tbleakne]

If I recall correctly - garygid got a battery check around April last year (not too long after his delivery ... showing plenty of detail). I hope he'll weigh in on this. It seemed like Cerritos Nissan had just gotten their equipment in, so it was kind of a benefit for both parties. Hope my memory isn't too flaky.

Cerritos Nissan did offer to do a free battery check on garygid's Leaf with their new equipment on this day, but the test failed. The firmware in the test equipment was incompatible and needed an update. Cerritos Nissan thanked Gary for alerting them to this problem, but no data was generated.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My experience with Gary's SOC meter would seem to indicate otherwise, as discussed elsewhere in another thread...

Also, as EV Driver said, there is no need to charge to 100% for balancing. The BMS does it without any help needed.

Ditto. There may be balancing at other than 100%, but my anecdotes suggest otherwise. I've had numerous instances of multiple less-than-100% charges result in significant battery capacity reduction, and subsequently a charge to 100% with an up to 4 hour plugged in post charge period resulted in immediate restoration of battery performance.

Not guessed performance... Demonstrated performance.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I bet this is documented in the service manual somewhere.

Absolutely, it is. 50C (122F) is the shut down temp. It starts restricting the power well before then.