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mwalsh

mwalsh

Well-known member
Leaf Supporting Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Messages
9,782
Location
Garden Grove, CA
From reliable sources that I will, of course, keep confidential....

L3 is DEFINITELY only going to come on the SL as an additonal charge item. NOT going to be available on the SV at all. This is as it was revealed to us when the reservation process began and while Nissan may have wavered back and forth, I am told that they have now reached a decision to go with what was originally planned.

The December roll-out (in this region and presumably all others) will be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very limited. How many cars? I just can't tell you...it would freak you out too badly! It freaked me out, so I know it will freak you guys out.

"At the end of the month" Nissan said they are going to be notifying people where they are in terms of the reservation list. I expect this refers to the end of this month, but my source wasn't able to be clear on that.

Once you place an order with the dealer of your choice, Nissan will send you an order number. It is this order number that locks in your position on the delivery list. Your reservation number means very little.....your order number means EVERYTHING. It is HUGELY important that you sign with your dealer of choice as soon as you can once the ordering process begins. The more you wait for whatever reason (shopping dealers, waiting for a test drive, etc.....) the further down the order list you will fall. Shop for your dealer NOW and be ready to move!

The Nissan test drive event will occur in October. It may or may not only be for reservation holders....unclear yet. This will be the only opportunity for you to test drive a Leaf before December, when dealerships receive their own demo car. Each dealer will receive only one demo vehicle. If you wait until an October test drive to order your car, you can totally kiss ANY hopes of December delivery "Adios!".

OK, so this is the information I've been given. I've checked and double checked that the source is OK with me releasing it and Nissan has my phone number - if any of this information is incorrect and they want me to retract or they want to clarify, I am fully available.
 
Mmm, the limited number of cars in December doesn't surprise me.

The way we order and place in line doesn't surprise me.

No level 3 does surprise me.

It totally limits the LEAF to a city only car (which is fine by me as mine will be a city only car)...

I understand the infrastructure isn't there to make the LEAF anything other than a city only car, but I thought Nissan was really really really pushing to get said infrastructure going.

Without the LEAF getting L3 ability, why would any business put level 3 charging in place?

Gavin
 
mwalsh said:
From reliable sources that I will, of course, keep confidential....

L3 is DEFINITELY only going to come on the SL as an additonal charge item. NOT going to be available on the SV at all. This is as it was revealed to us when the reservation process began and while Nissan may have wavered back and forth, I am told that they have now reached a decision to go with what was originally planned.

The December roll-out (in this region and presumably all others) will be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very limited. How many cars? I just can't tell you...it would freak you out too badly! It freaked me out, so I know it will freak you guys out.

"At the end of the month" Nissan said they are going to be notifying people where they are in terms of the reservation list. I expect this refers to the end of this month, but my source wasn't able to be clear on that.

Once you place an order with the dealer of your choice, Nissan will send you an order number. It is this order number that locks in your position on the delivery list. Your reservation number means very little.....your order number means EVERYTHING. It is HUGELY important that you sign with your dealer of choice as soon as you can once the ordering process begins. The more you wait for whatever reason (shopping dealers, waiting for a test drive, etc.....) the further down the order list you will fall. Shop for your dealer NOW and be ready to move!

The Nissan test drive event will occur in October. It may or may not only be for reservation holders....unclear yet. This will be the only opportunity for you to test drive a Leaf before December, when dealerships receive their own demo car. Each dealer will receive only one demo vehicle. If you wait until an October test drive to order your car, you can totally kiss ANY hopes of December delivery "Adios!".

OK, so this is the information I've been given. I've checked and double checked that the source is OK with me releasing it and Nissan has my phone number - if any of this information is incorrect and they want me to retract or they want to clarify, I am fully available.
Click to expand...


I don't think this is a surprise, I heard a few hundred cars in each area or so.
 
mwalsh said:
The December roll-out (in this region and presumably all others) will be very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very limited. How many cars? I just can't tell you...it would freak you out too badly! It freaked me out, so I know it will freak you guys out.
Click to expand...

This is what a dealer told me too - and I posted sometime back. 100 in total, 20 per region.

The L3 thing is a bit strange. One reason "could" be that SEI is pushing for a different L3 standard. Not too surprised given SEI L3 std is headed by a GM person ...
 
mwalsh said:
Oh, so I'm not freaking you guys out too much? That's good. I'm still freaking out though. :shock: I've heard 200 cars for the entire Western Region.
Click to expand...

That is an improvement from what I posted a while back !

BTW, L3 being not there is another good reason for leasing ....
 
What your saying is even with a free charger at home for the car I could still not have a car? I need to wait until January 1, 2011 so I can get the full tax credit. I got solar, new A/C and insulation this year.
 
100 cars? they might as well not even promise Dec 2010 delivery to ANYONE, because you can be sure NO ORDINARY JOE will have a chance at those cars. The more I hear about the Leaf, the more disinterested I become, and the longer I plan to keep my 2010 Prius, as I see pretty much no good reason to "downgrade
" to a Leaf at this point. Nissan is so full of hot air, the entire company is floating away. We probably have a better shot at getting a 2012 Tesla Model-S than a Leaf.
 
From my reliable source that I will, of course, keep confidential....

From a recent email I received. I believe that Nissan will be announcing this information on Tuesday at Plug-in 2010 . . .

Customers will start receiving the "Request a Quote" (RAQ) email notification towards the end of August. The order in which you will receive this will depend upon how early you made your $99 reservation. The first group of customers to "accept" your preferred dealer quote, will be the first orders placed and the first to take delivery of their new Nissan LEAF.

(My source) attended a Nissan LEAF training on 7/22. The ETEC national coordinator as well as Mark Hubbard (Infrastructure Services Lead) attended the training and mentioned that they are still in the process of selecting a charging dock from numerous different models. They did make note that if you qualified for the ETEC dock (notification sent 7/22) your Nissan LEAF SV(lower trim level) would be upgraded with a free level 3 DC FAST CHARGE PORT.

As of right now there are over 16,000 Nissan LEAF reservations out of the 150,000 national "handraisers". As of right now, the process seems to be "first come, first serve". As AUGUST comes and goes, I would suggest checking your email OFTEN and "Requesting a Quote" as soon as possible.
Click to expand...

I've come to realize that my chances of getting my LEAF in December are slim. I'm hoping I will have mine by February. Yes, it is a bummer having to wait at least 12 months for the tax credit but it won't kill me.

I think Tuesday will be a BIG day with new info about Nissan's ordering process and what the charging dock for EV Project people will be like. Wait wait wait !!!
 
Yep...200 in the west region....and how many regions?? 5?? so about 1000 cars (1400 if you include Texas and D.C. as first round roll out areas) in December...

Or less...Maybe it is 200 in the West, 100 in Tenn, 20 in DC, 20 in Texas???

We don't really know yet, but I always thought that December would be a slow month for getting cars out. If they are really giving a demo to all Nissan dealerships in roll out areas, well that is likely a hundred cars or more right there.

So worst case they get 300 cars out by December in the US...which means made in October or November and shipped. A fair start. Best case they make 1500 Leafs (1400 to customer, 100 to dealers)

At minimum that will be 300 more new affordable highway capable EVs than Ford or Toyota or anybody else has out. Heck that is about 1/3 of the cars Tesla has sold in how many years?

It will get faster very quick. They almost have too...competition is coming and Nissan wants to be THE EV...to do that they need to sell LEAFs.

Gavin
 
mwalsh said:
Oh, so I'm not freaking you guys out too much? That's good. I'm still freaking out though. :shock: I've heard 200 cars for the entire Western Region.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the specifics of the note mwalsh. For the regular Joe that I am, YES I am freaked out.

How could Nissan even call it a roll out with that number of vehicle units?? All this build-up and lead-up is now clearly nothing more than just creating marketing buzz and getting media attention.

I have paid my $99 bucks and I have been lead to believe that I should get a Leaf before the years end. My understanding is that there is a set number of people who were allowed the chance to register the $99, and that set number of units is what Nissan manufacturing is committed to by the end of 2010.

Now, if that does not happen, all Nissan is doing is misleading the market and I hope they will pay dearly for the trickery they have been planning for all along.

I really hope all I have assumed above will NOT be the case.
 
No L3 is certainly a disappointment.

There are very few places that commercial L2 seems to make sense:
(please feel free to add your own)

o Tahoe ski resorts as the car is parked for about 8 hours while you ski.
However - without L3 in the roads to the resorts - no one can get here

o Hotels - although not a lot of people stay at hotels within ~75 miles of them

o Airports - really they are better suited for L1 as stays are long enough

o Shopping centers and stores - but even a two hour shopping spree only nets about 20 miles

Without L3, I'm kind of at a loss for any real justification for *any* public charging infrastructure.

It's going to be interesting to see how dealers feel about having a single demonstrator that is only good for 2-3 test drives a day.

And as mentioned - without L3 as standard equipment - very few commercial sites will be motivated to invest the $20k+ in the charging infrastructure.

As we've discussed - a car buying decision is often determined not by how the car is used 99% of the time, but rather on the edge cases. While many might be willing to stop for half an hour to recharge every hour or so to make a long trip - every now and then - without the L3 this edge case is completely gone. The car is purely a local commuter. I think this will knock a lot of people out of the buying process.

It's a bummer to hear this. They should have run it through their new "panel" before making the decision.
 
Azrich said:
Yes, it is a bummer having to wait at least 12 months for the tax credit but it won't kill me.
Click to expand...

This doesn't apply to you down in AZ, but in California there is a $5000 tax credit. However the number of those tax credits is very limited:

The Clean Vehicle Rebate Project is funded by the California Environmental Protection Agency's Air Resources Board. A total of $4.1 million was appropriated to promote the use and production of zero-emissions vehicles. Rebates of up to $5,000 per light duty vehicle are available for individuals and business owners who purchase or lease new eligible zero emission or plug-in vehicles until the funding runs out. Vehicles must be purchased or leased after official launch of the program on March 15, 2010.

Although the project is in effect through 2015, it is anticipated that funding will not be sufficient to allow this. Therefore, rebates are awarded on a first come, first served basis.
Click to expand...

If only Leafs make up the claims - that's 820 of them. If Californians purchase more then 820 Leafs in 2010 + 2011 - it's not clear who will get the rebate. As far as I understand - you can only claim it when you file your taxes. Seems like a lottery to me.

If I can get delivery in 2010 - great. If not, I may have to reconsider. $5000 is a good chunk of money.
 
The California $5,000 is *NOT* a TAX CREDIT. It is a REBATE direct from the Air Resources Board of the State of California (CARB), and has nothing to do with filing your taxes. All you need is a registered qualifying vehicle :p SO ... as soon as you have the LEAF in your "hands" ... fill-out a form with proof of registration. Lease or purchase qualifies.

Yes, it may be limited as outlined, due to limited CARB funds, which may or may not be expanded.

Link: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project

P.S.: My info is that this $5k rebate is NOT taxable income, at least not at state level. Not 100% sure about federal, but also not likely. However, if someone could check with their California expert CPA and confirm ... that would be appreciated.
 
LakeLeaf said:
No L3 is certainly a disappointment.
Click to expand...

Yes .... if true. It seems Nissan keeps floating trial balloons ...

As we've discussed - a car buying decision is often determined not by how the car is used 99% of the time, but rather on the edge cases. While many might be willing to stop for half an hour to recharge every hour or so to make a long trip - every now and then - without the L3 this edge case is completely gone. The car is purely a local commuter. I think this will knock a lot of people out of the buying process.
Click to expand...

This, I don't remember. Infact all along we keep saying Leaf is really a commuter car - that satisfies driving needs for some 340 days a year. For the other 25, I'd use the ICE (or get a rental).

Ofcourse, not that SL is too expensive an option ...
 
LEAFer said:
The California $5,000 is *NOT* a TAX CREDIT. It is a REBATE direct from the Air Resources Board of the State of California (CARB), and has nothing to do with filing your taxes. All you need is a registered qualifying vehicle :p SO ... as soon as you have the LEAF in your "hands" ... fill-out a form with proof of registration. Lease or purchase qualifies.

Yes, it may be limited as outlined, due to limited CARB funds, which may or may not be expanded.

Link: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project

P.S.: My info is that this $5k rebate is NOT taxable income, at least not at state level. Not 100% sure about federal, but also not likely. However, if someone could check with their California expert CPA and confirm ... that would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I did a little online research and found that CARB has approved a funding plan that will ask for an additional $5 million for this project for 2010-2011, so that the total funding would fund 1,600 $5,000 rebates, and that if this is insufficient to cover the requests on a waiting list, that they request additional funds from the Energy Commission. HOWEVER, the recommendation is that if half of the 2009-2010 allocated funds are not requested by the first calendar quarter of 2011, that the 2010-2011 funds be reallocated to other projects.

With the GM Volt not qualifying for the CARB rebates, and other makers going slowly, Nissan has a responsibility to us "hand raisers" to register about 400 cars in California by the end of March 2011. Otherwise, CARB could decide that the funds aren't being used as requested and release the funds for other projects. Probably highly unlikely, but there it is.
 
LEAFer said:
The California $5,000 is *NOT* a TAX CREDIT. It is a REBATE direct from the Air Resources Board of the State of California (CARB), and has nothing to do with filing your taxes. All you need is a registered qualifying vehicle :p SO ... as soon as you have the LEAF in your "hands" ... fill-out a form with proof of registration. Lease or purchase qualifies.

Yes, it may be limited as outlined, due to limited CARB funds, which may or may not be expanded.

Link: http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project

P.S.: My info is that this $5k rebate is NOT taxable income, at least not at state level. Not 100% sure about federal, but also not likely. However, if someone could check with their California expert CPA and confirm ... that would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

I stand corrected. This is great news as it does mean a first come, first served rather then some type of end of the year scramble. Thanks for the info.
 
Azrich said:
From my reliable source that I will, of course, keep confidential....

From a recent email I received. I believe that Nissan will be announcing this information on Tuesday at Plug-in 2010 . . .

Customers will start receiving the "Request a Quote" (RAQ) email notification towards the end of August. The order in which you will receive this will depend upon how early you made your $99 reservation. The first group of customers to "accept" your preferred dealer quote, will be the first orders placed and the first to take delivery of their new Nissan LEAF.

(My source) attended a Nissan LEAF training on 7/22. The ETEC national coordinator as well as Mark Hubbard (Infrastructure Services Lead) attended the training and mentioned that they are still in the process of selecting a charging dock from numerous different models. They did make note that if you qualified for the ETEC dock (notification sent 7/22) your Nissan LEAF SV(lower trim level) would be upgraded with a free level 3 DC FAST CHARGE PORT.

As of right now there are over 16,000 Nissan LEAF reservations out of the 150,000 national "handraisers". As of right now, the process seems to be "first come, first serve". As AUGUST comes and goes, I would suggest checking your email OFTEN and "Requesting a Quote" as soon as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Any idea what "accept your preferred dealer quote" means? This is the time when the actual purchase takes place?
 

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