The Battery Replacement Thread

jason98 said:

Evoforce said:

No one can answer your question about if you will lose the 4th bar in 4 weeks or 150 miles because you have not provided any Leafspy numbers or what climate you reside in.

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I am in Bay Area. So it looks like my first action item should be... stop driving and get Leafspy asap.
I will post once I have an update.

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Because you have so little time, I would ask another Leafer in your area to help you get a reading on your car. I would also utilize your car as a Nissan Powerwall and power up household items with an inverter since you cannot afford mileage either.

Ok it finally happened. Lost the 4th bar today as the santa anna heat has taken the temperature up to 79. Ahr 43.34 Hx 44.97 odo=57,658.

Unfortunately we took delivery in January 2011. I'll be contacting Nissan to see if there is any wiggle room on the time constraint of the warranty.

bodengroden said:

Ok it finally happened. Lost the 4th bar today as the santa anna heat has taken the temperature up to 79. Ahr 43.34 Hx 44.97 odo=57,658.

Unfortunately we took delivery in January 2011. I'll be contacting Nissan to see if there is any wiggle room on the time constraint of the warranty.

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Darn. Please do let us know how you get on with Nissan.

Evoforce said:

Because you have so little time, I would ask another Leafer in your area to help you get a reading on your car. I would also utilize your car as a Nissan Powerwall and power up household items with an inverter since you cannot afford mileage either.

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Just ordered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QJRYMFC with delivery tomorrow.
Hopefully it will work with LeafSpy and my iPhone 6+.

jason98 said:

Just ordered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QJRYMFC with delivery tomorrow.
Hopefully it will work with LeafSpy and my iPhone 6+.

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It should. I use that OBDII with my iPhone 6 and it works great.

Evoforce said:

No one can answer your question about if you will lose the 4th bar in 4 weeks or 150 miles because you have not provided any Leafspy numbers or what climate you reside in.

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Just received a unit from http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QJRYMFC
Here are the readings from LeafSpy after a full charge:

92.0% SOC
14.8kWh 42.76 Ah 393.5v
191 GIDs (68.0%)

(2011 Leaf; Bay Area; 59,844 miles; 59 months of ownership)

Any chance for me to loose the 4th bar within next 156 miles/4 weeks?

42.76 Ah is almost exactly where I lost my 9th bar, so there's definitely hope for you. 191 GIDs seems kinda high though - I think most have been getting max GIDs in the 170s or 180s when it dropped... Unfortunately the Ah (and all other stats) where the bar drops are highly variable - people have reported it happening at anywhere from ~41.5-43.5 Ah. Good luck! Here are some better threads for the issue of when the bar might drop: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19739 http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=19967

I was at 41.79 AHr and 181 GIDs but mine was next to lowest AHr on the chart. You are too short on time and mileage. You need to Nissan Powerwall.

bodengroden said:

Ok it finally happened. Lost the 4th bar today as the santa anna heat has taken the temperature up to 79. Ahr 43.34 Hx 44.97 odo=57,658.

Unfortunately we took delivery in January 2011. I'll be contacting Nissan to see if there is any wiggle room on the time constraint of the warranty.

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Oh no! I think you are screwed...

Evoforce said:

You are too short on time and mileage. You need to Nissan Powerwall.

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That may not help much.

Capacity loss requires heat.

Difficult to do with it parked.
Most power use you can get is a bit more than 4.5 kW with it in Ready and on Defrost at 90F and blower on max.

In closed garage temp will rise but probably 15F for a full cycle.

Probably not enough in winter.

He doesn't necessarily need any more capacity loss, as his Ah is already in the reported range where the bar drops. Nobody knows (ok hopefully someone at Nissan knows but they're not telling) what the final trigger for the bar dropping might be, but it could be based on # of cycles or time after a capacity is crossed. So "powerwalling" could help in the sense that it'll at least add to the #cycles and #charges counters.

fooljoe said:

He doesn't necessarily need any more capacity loss, as his Ah is already in the reported range where the bar drops. Nobody knows (ok hopefully someone at Nissan knows but they're not telling) what the final trigger for the bar dropping might be

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This is what I object to with regard to the settlement. It is solely the capacity bars, and nobody knows, except for Nissan which I think knows precisely, when they drop. In addition, with regards to the required p3227 update, that apparently did reset the bars for cough cough "greater accuracy," I think it was also done to throw a group, such as bodengroden, just over the line and save $6k / incident. And, if I were bodengroden, I think I'd be checking into another lawsuit because of this what I am seeing as possible deception, but with the caveat that I'm not a lawyer and that was not and shouldn't be construed as legal advice.

In my situation, I've asked for Nissan to provide, in writing, the "in service date" for my vehicle. To date, over a period of about six months, they've refused, although they've called several times when I've not answered. In my opinion, it is something they could easily do, but haven't and are being evasive, and it looks like I'll have to sue them before they'll provide it. And, at least in some cases according to the documentation, the "in service date" can be different if the car was listed as a demo, although I also admit that I don't know of any specific examples discussed here.

I agree wholeheartedly. In my view Nissan's opacity with regards to how capacity bars relate to measurable capacity, and what triggers them to drop - and their ability to "change the rules" at their leisure with updates like P3227 - is just as bad as VW's recent debacle involving using the car's software to fudge environmental testing.

The parallels are stronger than you might at first think: VW's software maximized driving efficiency but led to dirtier emissions, while Nissan's software (pre-P3227) maximized range but led to capacity degradation. Nissan's P3227 "fix" may have slowed the capacity degradation problem (at least they claim), and will certainly result in fewer warranty claims, but it also has the effect of giving us lesser range than we were promised when we bought the cars via limited regen and charging to lower SOC on "top off" charges.

If and when VW releases a software fix that will inevitably resolve the emissions cheating but impact efficiency (i.e. range), I expect we'll see all kinds of lawsuits from owners complaining that their cars don't perform like they were advertised to. Why don't we see the same thing from Leaf owners complaining about the effects of the P3227 update?

fooljoe said:

I agree wholeheartedly. In my view Nissan's opacity with...

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You would rather have Ford's lack of any readout of capacity?

And most other car companies. I didn't mean to pick on just Ford. Tesla is the only other company that gives any indication as to battery capacity, as far as I know.

If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Can't say I know anything at all about Ford's practices with respect to EVs. I've done some reading up on the CAN-hacking efforts with the Kia Soul and I know there's a capacity measure there, although it doesn't seem to be completely understood. I've made some attempts but haven't found anything with the Rav4-EV, but I'd wager there's something there.

I think the fact that we have the CAN knowledge we do with the Leaf and not other EVs is just an artifact of the numbers, and nothing to do with Nissan. The Leaf is the most common EV, so it has the broadest (and probably most enthusiastic) user base, and that user base is wholly responsible for tools like LeafSpy. With the other compliance car makers it's no big surprise that they're not where we're at in terms of extracting metrics from the cars.

I am very, very, very upset with their ethics and policies. Nissan isn't going to stop hearing from me until my pack is replaced on their dime, no matter how long it has to sit. If it goes a year with no change to the battery stats reported in Leaf Spy, then something is not right. Something is not right about submitting a $160 test to verify battery health when all they are doing is faxing a printout of cell voltages with no mention of what the computer thinks the Capacity or State of health is (that's called a failed module test or a out of balance test, not a capacity verification!)

Layer upon layer of **** going on at Nissan. Makes me sick how inconsiderate their system is.

Call me crazy, but is it possible they trigger the final 4th bar remotely using telematics upon approval? I know Tesla keeps an eye on their cars remotely. I heard that one Leaf phoned home in Nashville too. RI$K MITIGATION

sats0 said:

takoyaki said:

I was in the same situation last year and was very sure I would lose the 4th bar before reaching 60,000, so continued to use the car. Of course, the 4th bar dropped at 60,500 miles and Nissan won't replace the battery for me, even though the AHr did not change appreciably at 59,000 miles to 60,500 miles. .

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I'm experiencing EXACTLY this right now! The stats are completely frozen even if the pack temp is 70-90F and the exterior temp is 94F. I'm at 59990. I bet it will drop right after 60k. immediately. just like yours. !!!!!!! Something is not right. Nissan is running a lottery.

hillzofvalp said:

sats0 said:

takoyaki said:

I was in the same situation last year and was very sure I would lose the 4th bar before reaching 60,000, so continued to use the car. Of course, the 4th bar dropped at 60,500 miles and Nissan won't replace the battery for me, even though the AHr did not change appreciably at 59,000 miles to 60,500 miles. .

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I'm experiencing EXACTLY this right now! The stats are completely frozen even if the pack temp is 70-90F and the exterior temp is 94F. I'm at 59990. I bet it will drop right after 60k. immediately. just like yours. !!!!!!! Something is not right. Nissan is running a lottery.

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It is time for both of you to start reading this discussion: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=19880

THank you, I'm aware of that case. My big issue is that I'm still under 60K, by 10 miles, and I don't feel like going through BBB if it's going to take forever. I will, but I need to know it has a high chance of success and plan accordingly.

hillzofvalp said:

THank you, I'm aware of that case. My big issue is that I'm still under 60K, by 10 miles, and I don't feel like going through BBB if it's going to take forever. I will, but I need to know it has a high chance of success and plan accordingly.

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For BBB you actually need to wait until the bar drops. Read the BBB thread carefully, all the info you need about best strategy and tactics is there. Arguing that your last bar won't drop due to a defect at BBB hearing just doesn't make sense.