The Battery Replacement Thread

[TimLee]

... So "powerwalling" could help in the sense that it'll at least add to the #cycles and #charges counters.

But quite a few people have reported that capacity will not drop with it sitting in a garage.
With it sitting the LEAF apparently does not see cycles of operation.

 

[fooljoe]

I really doubt that enough people have tried "powerwalling" or tried it long enough to make any sort of conclusion as to whether it helps or not. However, if the thought is that keeping the car completely stationary would somehow prevent bar loss, one could drive a small amount (around the block perhaps) then park it without turning it off. Now if the car's software has some mileage-based means of deciding when the bar drops after some threshold is reached, then some people will just be out of luck. But again, we really have no idea how the car's software works, so you might as well try whatever you can.

 

[jason98]

42.76 Ah is almost exactly where I lost my 9th bar, so there's definitely hope for you.

I was at 41.79 AHr and 181 GIDs but mine was next to lowest AHr on the chart. You are too short on time and mileage. You need to Nissan Powerwall.

Actually I am now confused. Seems like there are two metrics people use interchangeably here (as you can see above): Ah and AHr.
There are actually 2 separate readings in LeafSpy: one in the "Table" page that states a number in "Ah" which changes with the state state of charge, and the one in the "Battery Cell" page that state a number after AHr=, which does not seem to depend on a charge level. And after 100% of charge these numbers are different. For AHr I have 46.43, and for Ah I has as I said 42.76.

So which one really indicates degradation?

 

[fooljoe]

Ah and Ahr mean the same thing to me (I use a different CAN reader than LeafSpy). Ignore whichever one changes along with SOC. If you're seeing 46.43 that would explain the confusion I saw around your relatively high GIDs... and it means you have no chance of dropping the 9th bar in time. Sorry!

 

[TimLee]

... However, if the thought is that keeping the car completely stationary would somehow prevent bar loss, one could drive a small amount (around the block perhaps) then park it without turning it off. ...

Most people observed a capacity bar loss when they turned the LEAF on into Ready.
Clearly an update of capacity bars requires an "operation cycle".
It may require a certain kW power use or miles or both or something else too.
But the LEAF has to be put into OFF state to get the update after you met the other requirements.

 

[Valdemar]

Could be as simple as the cap bar display only gets the value to display once per "session" on startup, so the display can be "stale" until the car is power-cycled and the most up-to-date value is read on boot.

 

[Evoforce]

Well, I mentioned to Powerwall because he only has 150 miles to push himself out of warranty. I believe he has to do more to hopefully qualify for a new battery. Plus he was only four weeks out. He is out of time and mileage. Powerwall may be his only option to what he can do to make it without going over mileage and time is short. Is there anything else he can do? He can't go more than 150 miles in 4 weeks and he needs the battery to cycle. He will probably need to power up his fridge (example) or whatever and recharge. Lather rinse repeat for the next 4 weeks while driving down the little remaining mileage without going over. I would hate to be in his shoes...

 

[Valdemar]

Camp out by a Quick Charger and run the heater on full blast, then QC, repeat. 4-5 hrs per cycle, QC will keep the pack warm. The risk is burning out the heater, cost to replace almost as much as a new pack

 

[fooljoe]

Well, I mentioned to Powerwall because he only has 150 miles to push himself out of warranty. I believe he has to do more to hopefully qualify for a new battery. Plus he was only four weeks out. He is out of time and mileage. Powerwall may be his only option to what he can do to make it without going over mileage and time is short. Is there anything else he can do? He can't go more than 150 miles in 4 weeks and he needs the battery to cycle. He will probably need to power up his fridge (example) or whatever and recharge. Lather rinse repeat for the next 4 weeks while driving down the little remaining mileage without going over. I would hate to be in his shoes...

If we're still talking about jason98 it's a moot point as he was reading the wrong capacity value. He's actually over 46 Ah so he has 0 chance of qualifying.

 

[Evoforce]

Well, I mentioned to Powerwall because he only has 150 miles to push himself out of warranty. I believe he has to do more to hopefully qualify for a new battery. Plus he was only four weeks out. He is out of time and mileage. Powerwall may be his only option to what he can do to make it without going over mileage and time is short. Is there anything else he can do? He can't go more than 150 miles in 4 weeks and he needs the battery to cycle. He will probably need to power up his fridge (example) or whatever and recharge. Lather rinse repeat for the next 4 weeks while driving down the little remaining mileage without going over. I would hate to be in his shoes...

If we're still talking about jason98 it's a moot point as he was reading the wrong capacity value. He's actually over 46 Ah so he has 0 chance of qualifying.

Oh! I see now where you point that out. Ouch! He is toast...

 

[hillzofvalp]

I would hate to be in his shoes...

I'm 10 miles from the limit and it's been frozen at 44.44Ah for last 2-3 months (although I believe it is under 44, it just won't update). I'm determined. You guys who actually drive daily just need to figure out how to get the Ah and Hx to update with less than 1 mile of driving and tell me how you did it.

 

[mwalsh]

I'm 10 miles from the limit and it's been frozen at 44.44Ah for last 2-3 months (although I believe it is under 44, it just won't update). I'm determined. You guys who actually drive daily just need to figure out how to get the Ah and Hx to update with less than 1 mile of driving and tell me how you did it.

I'm afraid (and I think you already realize this) it's probably not going to happen for you. If we understood more of what it took, we might be able to offer concrete suggestions for alternatives, but for now all I can personally suggest is finding other ways than driving to run the pack down and the charge up again, repeating as often as you can, and hoping for the best.

 

[bodengroden]

Ok it finally happened. Lost the 4th bar today as the santa anna heat has taken the temperature up to 79. Ahr 43.34 Hx 44.97 odo=57,658.

Unfortunately we took delivery in January 2011. I'll be contacting Nissan to see if there is any wiggle room on the time constraint of the warranty.

Oh no! I think you are screwed...

We'll see. Here is where I am. I brought the car into the dealer. They told me to take it up with Nissan as their hands are tied. So I called them. They told me to take it back to the dealer and get the battery capacity documented and have the dealer submit the warranty claim.

I did that this morning. I paid $50 and waited for an hour for the battery check. The dealer seemed to have some difficulty sending in the claim as the warranty people rejected it as I'm ~4 weeks over. The dealer called me to see if I had a case number.

I called back Nissan customer service and they called the service department directly and seemed to sort out the miscummunication. Now I wait. I'm promised a call back from customer service before Friday....

The battery check showed the battery wasn't abused. 5 stars in all categories (whatever that means). And I'm down 4 bars...

Let's see how they come back.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

you will need to deal directly with Nissan. The dealer literally has very little power to do anything unless they perceive some vested interest in keeping you happy which is a very rare thing in the industry.

 

[takoyaki]

I have a 2011 SL and recently got Leaf Spy Pro to get the AHr.
It's at 9bars 44.75ahr now and I'm at 53.5k miles and till July.
We're in the SF bay area.

What are my chances of getting down to 4BL before my time's up?
If so, any suggestions to secure my chances?

Thanks!

For those interested, here's the progression I'm making.

Date odo mi AHr SOH Hx
1/5/16 53482.6 44.792 68% 47.42
1/7/16 53559.7 44.752 68% 47.32
1/11/16 53718.8 44.739 68% 47.27
1/13/16 53792.7 44.556 67% 46.93
1/15/16 53859.2 44.549 67% 47.03
1/16/16 53918.8 44.588 67% 47.06
1/26/16 54340.1 44.628 68% 47.13
1/27/16 54381.8 44.595 67% 47.08
1/29/16 54442 44.542 67% 46.96
2/4/16 54563.8 44.398 67% 46.71
2/5/16 54602.4 44.372 67% 46.7
2/8/16 54645.8 44.313 67% 46.59
2/9/16 54683.1 44.201 67% 46.43
2/10/16 54722.3 44.155 67% 46.38
2/11/16 54758.9 44.116 67% 46.31
2/12/16 54792.5 44.116 67% 46.29

Like many others, I noticed AHr going up end of Jan. This was when I charged more aggressively both L2/QC to keep it as full as possible. My theory is that when you QC it balances the batteries better, which causes the AHr to go up. If so, it means that AHr calculation depends more on the min voltage rather than average, and perhaps the bars losses are based on average voltage, which would explain why there's a range in AHr when people lose 4 bars? If that's the case I can imagine the car will start doing as much balancing as possible before losing the 4th bar which also may explain why the last bit of the bar is so sticky.

Well whatever the case may be, I stopped doing the "keep it full as possible" tactic and seems like I've been able to lose in a steady pace. I guess I'm still on the border and need to cross my fingers...

 

[Stanton]

What are my chances of getting down to 4BL before my time's up?
If so, any suggestions to secure my chances?

For those interested, here's the progression I'm making.

Date odo mi AHr SOH Hx
1/5/16 53482.6 44.792 68% 47.42
1/7/16 53559.7 44.752 68% 47.32
1/11/16 53718.8 44.739 68% 47.27
1/13/16 53792.7 44.556 67% 46.93
1/15/16 53859.2 44.549 67% 47.03
1/16/16 53918.8 44.588 67% 47.06
1/26/16 54340.1 44.628 68% 47.13
1/27/16 54381.8 44.595 67% 47.08
1/29/16 54442 44.542 67% 46.96
2/4/16 54563.8 44.398 67% 46.71
2/5/16 54602.4 44.372 67% 46.7
2/8/16 54645.8 44.313 67% 46.59
2/9/16 54683.1 44.201 67% 46.43
2/10/16 54722.3 44.155 67% 46.38
2/11/16 54758.9 44.116 67% 46.31
2/12/16 54792.5 44.116 67% 46.29

Well whatever the case may be, I stopped doing the "keep it full as possible" tactic and seems like I've been able to lose in a steady pace. I guess I'm still on the border and need to cross my fingers...

Worst case, assume you need to lose a couple more AHr's. At .5/month, you might make it. However, temps in SF are not on your side. The biggest mistake is: don't assume you know if/what will trigger that fourth bar. For example, we know that keeping the battery full (which you suddenly decided not to do) and heat (which you don't have a lot of) are 2 big drivers of battery degradation.

 

[EricH]

I lost my 4th bar in November (just under 5 months shy of the 5-year mark) and nearly 40k miles. Got to a dealer the last week of December for the battery check, but it took Nissan 5 weeks to get a battery pack to the dealership. Dropped it off Tuesday and picked up Wednesday. One of the invoices they had me sign showed they are billing Nissan just over $7,400 for the warranty replacement (ouch). I wound up calling Nissan (surprised they still have a dedicated Leaf support line) after 4 weeks waiting, but no way to tell whether that sped the battery delivery or not.

The SOH on the old battery showed 65.51% when I lost the last bar, if that helps anyone with Spy/Stat tracking their own batteries.

Cerritos Nissan also said there was another leaf in the "queue" behind me, waiting for a replacement battery.

Very strange seeing all that range back on the GOM, but welcome!

 

[takoyaki]

Worst case, assume you need to lose a couple more AHr's. At .5/month, you might make it. However, temps in SF are not on your side. The biggest mistake is: don't assume you know if/what will trigger that fourth bar. For example, we know that keeping the battery full (which you suddenly decided not to do) and heat (which you don't have a lot of) are 2 big drivers of battery degradation.

I also realize those are the two factors that affect battery degradation by the books, but there are many other factors that affect the AHr drop besides that. All I can say from the actual data I've been collecting is that it seems like at least for the time being QC and keeping it full has had negative effect with my driving pattern.

FYI I just did a QC this morning and again saw AHr rise, which was the first time it did since the last QC.

Whatever the case may be, I'll keep crossing fingers...

 

[arnis]

I would hate to be in his shoes...

I'm 10 miles from the limit and it's been frozen at 44.44Ah for last 2-3 months (although I believe it is under 44, it just won't update). I'm determined. You guys who actually drive daily just need to figure out how to get the Ah and Hx to update with less than 1 mile of driving and tell me how you did it.

My battery did never update Hx value during the whole winter. The first time it refreshed after 3-4 months is when I got chemistry temperature up to 4 (or 5, sorry don't remember) bars. And don't charge it to 100% and don't DC charge it. I usually see a spike of 1-2% after DC charging, temporarily. You can run the heater for days. In the garage. And heat the garage too. You need something around room temperature. Also you can tow a vehicle that is heavily braking. It will use gigantic amount of energy. That might do something with the battery at low charge.

I didn't read about how speedometer works. Maybe you have time to try and disconnect all ABS sensors (just disconnect, no need to remove).
If odometer works using ABS sensors it will stall. If it uses motor rotation then that won't help.

 

[hillzofvalp]

I have a 2011 SL and recently got Leaf Spy Pro to get the AHr.
It's at 9bars 44.75ahr now and I'm at 53.5k miles and till July.
We're in the SF bay area.

What are my chances of getting down to 4BL before my time's up?
If so, any suggestions to secure my chances?

Thanks!

...


Well whatever the case may be, I stopped doing the "keep it full as possible" tactic and seems like I've been able to lose in a steady pace. I guess I'm still on the border and need to cross my fingers...

Keep Doing this. My car hasn't been driven in 2-3 months. Last I drove it it was wildly hopping around between 44.2 and 44.8Ah. Since then it probably was cycled 20-30 times. Extremely out of balance because I think the charge cycle is ending early due to climate. 20-40mV at 95%SOC.

Please keep logging and sharing.. I've plotted your data and I think it's interesting. This will help me strategize what to do with my last 10 miles. I think that it likely has fallen below 44Ah by now and the magic sauce will cause an update.

One of my 4S modules is extremely low.. like obviously failing pretty badly. 44.44Ah 67%SOH 46.78%Hx. Hasn't updated in months, as I said before...