Tesla Model X

[JasonA]

I could care less what she has... this wasn't an TMC image either... it's technically an imgur file that was posted that either you or someone else Illegally copied from Tesla WITHOUT their permission, and since Bonnie is so crazy about her posts "intellectual property" :roll: paalleeze.. It's an open forum...

Just goto her "OMG EXCELENT With SIG #2" thread and look at the 2nd to the last page.... she's not getting her X in time now.. and won't be doing a roadtrip until next year... Even Dennis was asking about it (who I know well)...

And btw... she doesn't have X- Sig#2 :lol: That went to Steve Jurvetson ( or if you want to consider it a founder)

In the end... I could care less... I was excited about it.. now I see it a huge disappointment as do most people... the only people that are still in are either fan bois, or people in a disbelieving mad spiral.

Good luck with your X however!

 

[scottf200]

And btw... she doesn't have X- Sig#2 That went to Steve Jurvetson ( or if you want to consider it a founder)

In the end... I could care less... I was excited about it.. now I see it a huge disappointment as do most people... the only people that are still in are either fan bois, or people in a disbelieving mad spiral.

Good luck with your X however!

There is a seperate value in the VIN for Founders or Signature cars.

Your comments are bizarre. I don't understand the "as do most people" comment or the childish "fan bois" remarks. Telling of your maturity and sense of reality. I'm an EV fan (45K EV miles so far) and they've done more than any other company for public understanding and growth. Gigafactory is moving along nicely per more articles today.

I think Tesla has every right to be innovative and adjust as they grow. I would expect changes to the X in future to fit different needs. I'm very happy with the current edition of it and it fits 1000's of peoples needs. See:
Tesla Model X Reservations Reach All Time High in September
http://www.teslarati.com/model-x-reservations-reach-time-high-september/

Probably time you go on the ignore list since you have proven to be schizophrenic and like to fabricate the "facts" in your story telling as you get corrected.

 

[JasonA]

LOL.. ignore me all you want (that's the easy way out) but there's a whole slew of new posts and concerns on TMC this morning about towing, if the vehicle is STILL NOT READY yet, etc,etc..

And your delivery/ production #/ that tracker has nothing to do with the real amount of vehicles sold or canceled. Tesla confirmed that none of the vehicles now will be in sequential order due to all the wackiness so yeah, it "LOOKS ALOT HIGHER" then it actually is.

And BTW... for how amazing the X is supposed to be :lol:

The stock price sure isn't reflecting that since the launch :roll:

The Tesla Graveyard...
http://learnbonds.com/123923/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-boss-musk-confused-about-apple-inc-aapl-titan/

 

[edatoakrun]

The usefulness of the X as a tow vehicle will be extremely limited, for reasons posted by myself and others previously on this thread.

Curiously, the X's obvious limitations haven't been discussed very much on the Tesla forums, until recently:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/55220-Model-X-towing-5-000-up-mountain-passes-at-the-speed-limit

Another problem, not discussed on that thread, is the relatively low GAWR to be expected for the X, since one of Tesla's attempts at limiting costs in X development was in utilizing the S sedan's skateboard and trying to make a tow vehicle out of one that is not.

AFAIK, the X's GAWR has not been disclosed, beyond this photo, which IIRC, was taken from Elon's personal car.

http://insideevs.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/VIN-Elon.jpg

Assuming a ~500lb trailer tongue weight, this S can not carry more than ~800 lbs. in total of of passengers and luggage, without exceeding the GAWR (safety) limit.

Presumably, an X with the tow package would do somewhat better, but there may have been a reason Tesla used mostly children and infants in its example of seven passengers with luggage, shown towing an Airstream at the X intro event ~two weeks ago...

 

[lorenfb]

The Tesla Graveyard...
http://learnbonds.com/123923/tesla-motors-inc-tsla-boss-musk-confused-about-apple-inc-aapl-titan/

It appears paranoia is beginning to manifest itself in Elon given his recent statements about Apple.
Seems he needs to denigrate Apple and minimize its ability to design and build a complex system.
As if Tesla's use of existing off-the-self automotive system components and common available technology
is more significant/complex/challenging than designing microprocessors and fabricating those using
sub-micron technologies, producing products in the millions, and achieving a dominant market share
in a very competitive environment.

Tesla like most all automotive OEMs is just a systems integrator that has produced a low volume inelastic
product, e.g. a Rolex watch, and as yet had to develop/produce a truly competitive product. Elon needs
to now focus on how he'll produce and sell 17K units, i.e. trivial for Apple, in Q4 to at least achieve his
latest downward forecast for 2015 and not worry about Apple.

 

[GRA]

I'll back any plug-in going any amount of electric miles (even a PiP!) if it gets people positive about PEVs who would otherwise never be willing to try them. YMMV, but since you followed that progression yourself (admittedly, at a much higher price point the second time around), why would you be dismissive of it for others?

I was/am dismissive of the PiP when I read about the people buying it just for the carpool lane sticker and never plugging it in!!!

But there are Volts that have never been plugged in either, because they are company cars and the drivers are re-imbursed for gas but not electricity. The problem isn't the cars, or the people choosing not to plug them in (who are acting entirely rationally for economic reasons), it's the fact that the government is giving people incentives to drive SOVs in the HOV lane. But the way I look at it, even if many PHEVs never get plugged in now, come 1/1/19 at the latest (when the stickers expire) they'll become increasingly available on the used market when no such counter-productive incentive will apply, making PHEVs available to far more people than could afford a new one. Not ideal, but a lot better than nothing.

I understand your point about the Model X vs XC90 and in this case I'm dismissive of it because they are going from a 250 mile range full BEV to a 10-20 mile PHEV. Seriously?!?! These people don't really care about running in EV mode if they are doing that. That is what I call BS on. Hope that makes more sense.

They're going from a 250 mile range BEV because they've already determined that the 250 mile BEV as currently offered doesn't meet their needs. Most of them are either going to have to keep the ICE they currently use to meet their needs (in addition to the Model S many of them have), or else go with the next best thing to the Model X currently, which at the moment is a PHEV like the XC90 T8. Any EV usage is better than none, in my book. That group is just waiting for the BEV CUV they want to appear, whether that's by Tesla deciding to produce a version of the Model X with a folding 2nd row, or some other manufacturer like Audi or BMW coming out with one. Until then, they're marking time.

 

[edatoakrun]

See the ~two minutes starting at ~19:30 for comments on future X base price, availability, and his deleted tweets on this and other subjects:

Elon Musk
...about 75 K ($) next year...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqEo107j-uw#t=1170

IMO, this may reflect plans for a future price cut for a ~85 to 90 kWh pack S, than the introduction of a ~70 to 75 kWh X.

With it's emphasis on range as an exclusive feature of Tesla BEVs, I just can't see Tesla trying to sell Xs, even at ~$75k, against Competing BEVs with almost the same range, selling for ~half the base X's price.

And I do expect competitive BEVs will probably enter the market ~ the same time or shortly after the "$75k" X is actually available.

 

[finman100]

none are competitive without the Supercharger network.

 

[JasonA]

How's that X delivery coming along??? Threads are brutal on the TMC forum right now comparing it to the Mirai :lol:

Sounds like Toyota will beat them too! :shock:

 

[edatoakrun]

How's that X delivery coming along???...

Looks like Elon will have some splaining to do in ~two weeks:

Tesla Motors, Inc. Third Quarter 2015 Financial Results Q&A Conference Call
Nov 3, 2015
2:30 PM PT

http://ir.teslamotors.com/eventdetail.cfm?EventID=166133

 

[JasonA]

Down down she tanks....

I guess the public doesn't like the X after all... :roll:

Hmmm. imagine that...

I have a bet with a another EV'er friend that the 3 will be a 2019 vehicle. (2017 is Elon years)

P.S. Don't even mention the CR article :roll:

 

[finman100]

Best not to crow yet. You WILL eat it later. just sayin'.

Best to see the bigger picture. Unless you like gasoline...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

No. The X was initially expected/promised to be 10% more expensive than an S, but if you read any of the previous posts, or Elon's Twitter post, it appears to be only $5000 more than an equivalent S. We will find out the REAL price of an X when they start shipping/selling NON-Signature versions.

cmon, we all know Musk only refers to "stripped down with operating cost savings removed" pricing. so you need to compare the bottom of the line S with the bottom of the line X

 

[abasile]

I guess the public doesn't like the X after all... :roll:

Hmmm. imagine that...

Why the negativity? I think the X is an awesome family vehicle. Sure, it's expensive, but that is absolutely no surprise. It makes sense for Tesla to sell the more expensive variants first, and at any rate, it won't be cheaper than the Model S.

While I do have some skepticism as to the utility of the falcon wing doors in heavy rain and snow, it is possible that the doors could be programmed to open more outward than upward during heavy precipitation, given available space next to the vehicle. In some cases that could be a feature, as you'd thus have a small rain canopy when entering/exiting. My only real concern would be snow and ice that is stuck firmly to the roof after parking outside for hours. This would not be a big enough concern to prevent me from eventually buying the vehicle, however. But I would be in the market for a used Model X that's at least a couple of years old and not so very expensive.

 

[garsh]

While I do have some skepticism as to the utility of the falcon wing doors in heavy rain and snow

I don't believe this is a big deal. Most car doors curve inward at the top, so that if the car is covered with snow and you open it, a bunch of snow falls on the seat. I don't see this being all that much different.

 

[JasonA]

Tesla needed to focus more on the 3 then the X. The only people "who really love the X" are Res holders and fan bois. That's it. The general public, wall street and everyone else (the automotive industry, etc,etc) pretty much has slammed the X already.

It's behind, they are not being delivered (the launch with the 6 was a joke and everyone saw that) and it's STILL NOT READY.

So, due to this MASSIVE R&D into this vehicle, they are so far behind, they have lost the game AND THE RACE to the next 200mile EV roadmap that both Nissan AND GM :lol: will beat them at!!

There is no way in HELL that the factory is going to be up and running in 2017, spitting out batteries and a M3 in the hands of consumers in that time.

You guys have been waiting for the X since 13 and won't get it until MID 16 :roll: The M3 will be a 2019 vehicle and there will be TONS of other options at that time.

Sad but true.. Elon's charm can only go so far.

 

[sparky]

Tesla needed to focus more on the 3 then the X. ...

We have no information on how much focus Tesla has put on the 3. It's clear that if the 3 was ready, Tesla wouldn't have the batteries for them anyway.

...It's behind, they are not being delivered (the launch with the 6 was a joke and everyone saw that) and it's STILL NOT READY.

Agreed the "launch" of the first 6 was a joke. I'm glad I decided not to wait. Fortunately, Tesla makes a fine sedan that has made my wait easier. I know of two people who are considering canceling their order for the X. They're won't switch to an Audi, Volvo, Merc or BMW SUV though: Model S.
Based just on how it drives and how many it can seat.

...So, due to this MASSIVE R&D into this vehicle, they are so far behind, they have lost the game AND THE RACE to the next 200mile EV roadmap that both Nissan AND GM :lol: will beat them at!!

I don't think it's "winner take all". BMW sells sedans in the same market as Toyota. Nissan will need something very compelling to win me back. After 2.5 years and 30k mi, my S85 is a better car than it was new. Over-the-air updates and no dealership b.s. are still a Tesla advantage.

...There is no way in HELL that the factory is going to be up and running in 2017, spitting out batteries and a M3 in the hands of consumers in that time.

Seems that all manufacturers have this problem of enough batteries for a moderately priced, 200 mi EV. I expect their 2017 launches to be followed by a very slow ramp up.

Sad but true.. Elon's charm can only go so far.

You don't seem sad.
What I fine "charming" about Elon and Tesla is the total commitment to an EV future. Not some half-assed CARB play with all the company's focus squarely on an ICE-centric line-up with a full court press for a hydrogen future.

So, when Tesla stumbles with so much at stake, I do get a little sad.

 

[finman100]

Hmmm, 200 mile EVs from non-Tesla entities? how's that going? and where, on longish trips, say, across the country, are you going to charge these mythical EVs? I thought so.

Better get in the Tesla line, cause they got all avenues covered.
Factory to make their own cells and packs: check.
Robust, fast, and reliable, as well as ever-expanding, network of SuperChargers: check.
Compelling EVs and affordability on the way: check.

NO WAY IN HELL non-Teslas have ANY of that!

Just sayin'.

 

[GRA]

While I do have some skepticism as to the utility of the falcon wing doors in heavy rain and snow

I don't believe this is a big deal. Most car doors curve inward at the top, so that if the car is covered with snow and you open it, a bunch of snow falls on the seat. I don't see this being all that much different.

I think most people who are skeptical of the doors (beyond their making roof loads impractical) are worried more by their reliability in inclement conditions than how much weather they let in, although that's also an issue - I can certainly open and close a door manually a lot faster than these power-operated doors work, and do they even offer manual closure if the power mechanism fails, which it's bound to do eventually? I mean, these guys were having trouble getting small power-extending door handles that only had to operate in a single plane to work reliably, and here we're talking about heavy, double-hinged doors that will have to deal with wind-loading, ice, water, salt and sand accumulations in the seals and mechanisms. I'll be very surprised if we don't start getting early reports of door failures this winter, just as soon as cold-weather customers actually get their hands on some cars, and increasingly so as time goes on in cars that often spend time at beaches, where salt and sand will eventually invade the actuators.

 

[lorenfb]

I'll be very surprised if we don't start getting early reports of door failures this winter, just as soon as cold-weather customers actually get their hands on some cars, and increasingly so as time goes on in cars that often spend time at beaches, where salt and sand will eventually invade the actuators.

Probably not, since few beyond the six 'family' deliveries will be made prior to 2016. Elon will be able
to tightly control any negative reports given the minimal deliveries thru Q4 of 2015, i.e. less than
double digits. Most definitely, though, as the volume increases and the doors are not operated
in a controlled environment with owners who are not concerned about where and how to park
to facilitate the doors' functionality and reliability.