Tesla Model X

[GRA]

Expected to a certain extent in a CUV, but the rear contours of the hatch reminded me more of the current gen CR-V...

Ouch ... That's got to hurt.

It's the hippo butt look; I think it was Hyundai who did something similar with their Tucson concept, that everyone was gagging at/making jokes about. [Edit: It was MItsubishi ,with the Outlander.] I have no idea why designers are marching en masse like lemmings to this look, because no one seems to like it, and it seems to be much less utilitarian than a more squared off hatch. Maybe it's aero, but I suspect fashion has as much or more to do with it.

 

[scottf200]

Model X pictures

 

[GRA]

Yup, that's it, and it looks worse from dead astern, with a very small and highly slanted rear window that appears like it will severely limit rear vision. Maybe the idea is that everyone will use the rear camera rather than the mirror. At least the X lacks the Outlander's styling, uh, 'eccentricities' on the front and sides.

 

[scottf200]

98.32% will look at it and just think it looks like a tall Model S (below picts). I'm very happy with the Model X (above pictures).
Same shallow rear window; sharp rear-end; sharp tailed/narrowed top.

Model S below.

 

[mjblazin]

Is this the one with the signature edition costing $130,000?

 

[scottf200]

Is this the one with the signature edition costing $130,000?

Yes, the signature edition has most all the options (simplify production). It is a Performance version with a 90 kWh battery. And AWD but they say the Model X will only be AWD. 3.8 second 0-60, performance seats, auto-pilot features, etc, etc.

The only options not on the Signature version are the weather package, ludicrous mode, and the towing package (a hitch is include in all for bike, ski, etc racks). The options were posted up stream.

 

[epirali]

This can't be right. I am not being snarky but they can't possibly think they can raise the cost of the Model X by this much over Model S and get significant adoption. Maybe I am wrong, I guess we will see.

I'm guessing you are wrong
The signatures are the performance versions and should be compared with a P90D (without the ludicrous speed update).
That comes to $118k.

Signature Ss had a $12,000 premium, adding that takes the price to $130k.

So no, the cost increase from Model S to Model X (at least the Sig version) is actually less than I thought it would be.

Some will likely drop their Sig reservation to regular production, or even all together now that they have seen some of the specs. I don't think they will have any trouble selling every one they can make.

So do I. I was thinking the Model X would be in line with or just slightly below model S. Then it would be a compelling option and would definitely canibalize less from Model S and grab more of its market share. But being more expensive may be a barrier, specially when you are firmly in the range of ultra-luxury SUVs from Porsche and Land Rover.

 

[epirali]

And you realize in the low end Tesla HAS to succeed wildly with the Model 3 in order to survive long term. So to dismiss the potential success of a Rex type approach is a little bit like whistling past the graveyard for a company like Tesla. The i3 has not been a success so far, but I wonder if there will be other options with similar approach.

Tesla isn't going to make a hydrogen or a hybrid car. Sorry if that's what you think they need to make. They did look carefully at both from the earliest days of Tesla (2003):

"Why instead of competing based on price, why not compete based on other factors such as performance and design so that an alternative fuel car could exist that people actually wanted. As Martin Eberhard and his friend Marc Tarpenning explored this, they even looked at celluosic ethanol and hydrogen fuel cells before ultimately deciding to work on the electric car."

http://teslarumors.com/HowTeslaBegan


The GM Volt appears to be that successful plug-in serial hybrid you're looking for:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099350_2016-chevy-volt-epa-ratings-53-mile-electric-range-42-mpg-on-gas

GM Volt
53 EPA miles of electric-only range
367 miles of gasoline only range
42 MPG in gasoline only operation
MPGe combined of 106
Total range of 420 miles


vs

BMW i3 REx
72 miles of electric-only range
39 MPG in gasoline only operation
MPGe combined of 117
Total range of 150 miles

I was in no way implying Tesla should make a hybrid. I am very well aware what their business plan is. My point was that the Model 3 has to succeed, like I said. At $35K and 200 miles my opinion is that it will be pretty successful against other 200 mile cars from most manufacturers.

Thanks but I am very well aware of every single BEV/REX/PHEV on the market and available widely, don't need your help. Volt is different than an i3 in many many ways. I rejected it very early on. The idea of a BEV with primary gas "generator" or drivetrain for this kind of car doesn't interest me one bit. A smaller Rex for occasional use is entirely different.

 

[epirali]

This can't be right. I am not being snarky but they can't possibly think they can raise the cost of the Model X by this much over Model S and get significant adoption. Maybe I am wrong, I guess we will see.

How much did people (you) pay for a teeny tiny 2 seat EV car? $140,000?

So I am guessing that you can not differentiate between a unique sport car with a total production of 2000 units and a mass produced basic Mom mobile SUV? I think you can, you seem pretty observant to me. I think your statement is just purposefully wrong.

I have paid $140K for many cars, but never for an SUV, and never for one that is basically not particularly compelling ONCE YOU ELIMINATE that fact that it is an electric only drive.

I am very sure the early sales numbers will be very good, but let's revisit this when the Model X has been in full swing production for 4 quarters.

 

[Zythryn]

...
... I was thinking the Model X would be in line with or just slightly below model S. Then it would be a compelling option and would definitely canibalize less from Model S and grab more of its market share. But being more expensive may be a barrier, specially when you are firmly in the range of ultra-luxury SUVs from Porsche and Land Rover.

Tesla has been saying or over a year that the X would be slightly more expensive than the S.
And it is grabbing more market share. The market that only wanted a SUV and not a sedan/hatchback.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by ultra-luxury. The X costs what many SUVs from other luxury makers such as Mercedes, BMW, etc.

 

[cwerdna]

Tesla has been saying or over a year that the X would be slightly more expensive than the S.
...
I'm not quite sure what you mean by ultra-luxury. The X costs what many SUVs from other luxury makers such as Mercedes, BMW, etc.

http://blogs.windsorstar.com/business/electric-tesla-model-x-to-compete-with-premium-suvs-minivans says

Though he would not disclose pricing, Franz von Holzhausen, Tesla’s chief designer said Model X will be priced competitively with premium SUVs and about five to 10 per cent more than the Tesla S four-door sedan which starts at $57,400 US. Production is expected to begin next year at Tesla’s plant in Fremont, Calif.

We all know what happened to that "$57,400" Model S... Now the S starts at over $71K.

I can't speak for epirali but from http://www.bmwusa.com/bmw/Xmodels, BMW SUVs have starting MSRPs ranging from $34,800 to $59,800.

http://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/index# has SUVs & Wagosn w/starting prices from $31,300 to $115,400. The last one's unusually high as the rest start at under $70K.

 

[scottf200]

I have paid $140K for many cars, but never for an SUV, and never for one that is basically not particularly compelling ONCE YOU ELIMINATE that fact that it is an electric only drive.

It is not clear what all you are including in your "electric only drive" comment.
Does it include millisecond AWD traction control (which I've experiences driving the P85D on winter roads)?
Does it include 3.8 second 0-60 times (3.2 with ludicrous option)?

Model X is $5K more than the Model S. Originally stated as a percentage and of single digits. Obviously/mathematically, on a >$100K car $5K is less than 5%. The "equivalent" optioned Model S is > the current Sig Model X. (aside: It appears the Sig Model X do not have to pay that $5K bump as far as I can tell.)

 

[scottf200]

 

[scottf200]

New option today. 6 seats.

 

[lorenfb]

Just six more days left to make at least one X delivery to fulfill Elon's "by 9/30" delivery commitment!

 

[palmermd]

Just six more days left to make at least one X delivery to fulfill Elon's "by 9/30" delivery commitment!

I'm pretty sure that the launch event noted two posts above yours will qualify. They'll deliver a few cars at 7pm on the 29th.

 

[lorenfb]

Just six more days left to make at least one X delivery to fulfill Elon's "by 9/30" delivery commitment!

I'm pretty sure that the launch event noted two posts above yours will qualify. They'll deliver a few cars at 7pm on the 29th.

Nothing like "a few cars" at the end of Q3 to help Elon meet his revised 2015 downward guidance from the
initial 55K units. Most likely by the end of next week, we'll know his YTD numbers since he now actually
reports quarterly sales numbers like most all OEMs and not six weeks later when the Q3 reports are available.

 

[scottf200]

Glad to see testing continue with trailers of all sizes.

 

[GRA]

Glad to see testing continue with trailers of all sizes. <snip>

I wonder if Tesla will provide a range with trailer calculator on their website, or whether we'll have to wait for owner reports. That could be make or break for some prospective customers.

 

[evnow]

What do you guys think is the surprising feature Musk will reveal tomorrow?