Rumor: Leaf 2017 to get 40kWh

[DanCar]

... a Nissan exec in the LEAF program who said that there would be no change in the '17 model at all ...

They got that part wrong as we now know the new 2017 got a new 30 kWh battery for the base trim.

 

[KellyROlsen]

They got that part wrong as we now know the new 2017 got a new 30 kWh battery for the base trim.

To be fair, I would not consider the lack of mentioning the base model getting the same battery size as something that would be earth shattering or a major breakthrough and something to discredit his knowledge. Even Nissan did not make a big deal about the S getting the same battery as the SV and SL. The discussion at that time was about if the '17 was going to be the LEAF 2.0. with a new body and 60 kWh battery.

I'm not saying he is correct but it would be really weird if this guy had no knowledge of the '17 and its specs regarding it having a 41 kWh battery. But maybe he didn't think that was a big deal since again, the discussion was about the LEAF 2.0.

I'm hoping he was wrong or there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding and the "rumor" turns out to be true. If the '17 is not the 60 kWh battery, I'd be fairly pleased with a 41 kWh and would turn in my '13 for one, depending on price comparison to the Bolt.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

They got that part wrong as we now know the new 2017 got a new 30 kWh battery for the base trim.

To be fair, I would not consider the lack of mentioning the base model getting the same battery size as something that would be earth shattering or a major breakthrough and something to discredit his knowledge. Even Nissan did not make a big deal about the S getting the same battery as the SV and SL. The discussion at that time was about if the '17 was going to be the LEAF 2.0. with a new body and 60 kWh battery.

I'm not saying he is correct but it would be really weird if this guy had no knowledge of the '17 and its specs regarding it having a 41 kWh battery. But maybe he didn't think that was a big deal since again, the discussion was about the LEAF 2.0.

I'm hoping he was wrong or there was a miscommunication or misunderstanding and the "rumor" turns out to be true. If the '17 is not the 60 kWh battery, I'd be fairly pleased with a 41 kWh and would turn in my '13 for one, depending on price comparison to the Bolt.

To be "fairer" you need to remember the change happened in the 2016 model year so if no other changes happen, then the guy is correct in saying no changes for 2017. However this is the first time I heard the 2018 not coming out til the end of 2017. Its always been mid 2017 before.

I think its possible that was Nissan's plan a few months ago but would find it difficult to believe that time line has not been reevaluated

 

[rmay635703]

Perhaps Nissan is pulling a Chevy and the new note/micra will get improved range while the leaf will skip a model year.

 

[ydnas7]

Nissan LEAF 1 has quite a few generational battery changes

2011/12 original 24kWh battery
2013/2016 24kWh scale out manufacture, refine packaging, electrolyte improvements, (AKA lizard battery). quite a few little steps,
2016 30kWh, upgrade to cathode chemistry, but anode chemistry remains same as 24kWh generation.
2017 4?kWh, upgrade to anode chemistry, but cathode chemistry remains same as 30kWh

I assume, Nissan LEAF gen 1, will solder on alongside Nissan LEAF gen 2, similar to how Prius 2 succeeded Prius 1, but Prius C is the spiritual heir to Prius 1.

2018 60kWh IDS (LEAF 2.0) will use the cathode/anode chemistry of the 2017 LEAF, but the cells will be different, as will the packing and the case.
No internal cooling of LEAF 2 pack, Pack same footprint as before, but deeper, and different profile.

LEAF pack (no cooling) extends from back seat to front seat, Bolt pack (has cooling) extends from back seat to front foot rest. Ceteris paribus, the LEAF 2 vehicle will be about 7%-10% cheaper AND about 7%-10% longer highway range than Bolt due to LEAFs smaller front area (due to not bumping up height of car to fit the cooling in the pack).

Of course these are different car bodies from different companies, so Ceteris paribus is just an approximation, but in general, expect LEAF 2 to be about 7%-10% cheaper AND about 7%-10% longer highway range than Bolt. BUT Nissan seems to be using some carbon fibre in LEAF 2, so the cost will probably rise for minimal useful benefit but great marketing (similar to BMW i3 choice of using carbon fibre), however use of Carbon fiber in the A pillars seem very appropriate, as that is a uni-axial component.

One other observation, LEAF 2 is still a hatch, but the pack seems to have more space for rear leag room, perhaps something similar to Nissan Sentra rear leg room (which is about 1-2 class sizes better than it should be.)

More the merrier,
LEAF 1 2017 and beyond.
Bolt 2017 and beyond.
LEAF 2 2018 and beyond.
Tesla 3 , sometime in the future and beyond, USA federal rebates probably all used up by Tesla S/X

Each really is quite different to each other, although in many ways the Bolt is more of the heir to the LEAF 1, than the LEAF 2 will be.

 

[RegGuheert]

Thank you for that detailed, informative post, ydnas7!

 

[ydnas7]

Nissan's asian style 5 year plan is known as Nissan 88. In it there was a 'new' LEAF just prior to expiry of the plan, and a new Infiniti EV just after expiry of the plan. The Infiniti brand EV is dead, but obviously lives on as the Nissan IDS, that is very much alive and is the basis of the Nissan LEAF 2.0
Which leaves us with the '88 plan next gen LEAF being the Nissan 2017. and the '88 plan next gen EV being the Nissan 2018.

Confused.

Its really quite similar to how Toyota has the Prius and the Prius C. There is a market for both. But until the products are released, this will remain confusing. Particularly as key specs of Nissan EV's like wheelbase will remain the same between the 2 cars. So to justify the price differentiation, there will be capacity difference, range difference, acceleration, looks and carbon fibre. To Nissan (the manufacturer) they will be very different cars (different floor pan, carbon fibre pillars etc) resulting in very different vehicle to manufacture, but to the marker they may seem the same.

The anode and cathode chemistry will be the same, but the cell dimensions are different.

And this doesn't even touch on the possibility of a Micra/Note/Nissan ZOE type EV/PHEV.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Toyota managed to put a well-liked, proven drivetrain into an otherwise terrible little car (the Prius C), resulting in a car that isn't even liked for its drivetrain. Let's hope that Nissan does better with the 'Legacy Leaf'.

 

[cwerdna]

Toyota managed to put a well-liked, proven drivetrain into an otherwise terrible little car (the Prius C), resulting in a car that isn't even liked for its drivetrain. Let's hope that Nissan does better with the 'Legacy Leaf'.

LOL! Well, the Prius c uses the 1NZ-FXE engine (same engine used in the 04 to 09 Prius aka NHW20) except Toyota claims 70% of it is new (http://www.greencarcongress.com/2012/02/priusc-20120208.html and elsehwere). The transaxle err... power split device isn't a carryover from other Priuses either: https://priuschat.com/threads/sae-papers-describing-prius-c.110207/.

I have test driven the Prius c at least once. The engine sounded just like my 06 Prius. It's not exactly known for low NVH.

FWIW, in Japan, the Prius c (known as the Toyota Aqua) sells VERY well. See http://www.jada.or.jp/contents/data/ranking.html and use Google Translate/Chrome to translate to English. It looks like every month this year it was at least in the #2 spot.

When I was in Japan almost a year ago, I observed the ratio of Prius c...errr Aqua vs. regular Prius (liftback) was quite different than what I see in the US. It's way stilted here in favor of the liftback whereas over there, it's not surprisingly much closer to 1:1.