Public discussion of Tony Williams ban from Mynissanleaf

[dm33]

I personally am profoundly disappointed that internet forums have devolved where its so easy to "permanently ban" someone for whatever reason. Talk to the hand. There is no room for dialog, for compromise. What ever happened to warnings. What ever happened to people being banned for doing something obviously very bad, rather than some relatively minor nuance.

The internet as a whole has become intolerant and an unwelcoming place for discussions. This is how our politics has become increasingly divisive. Only those with the exact same opinion are allowed on a forum.

I had thought MyNissanLeaf of all websites seemed most tolerant, mostly because everyone seems to complain about Nissan here. On most other websites on the internet, folks get instantly permanently banned if they don't drink the koolaid of the topic or product.

It is just sad that civil discussion is becoming banned. Overall banning people on any of these forums is too easy, with no recourse, no warnings, no time outs. Permanent, done. What about the people who don't have Tony's clout.

There must be a better replacement for these forum packages instead of phpbb.

 

[FalconFour]

Seriously? There are some folks in the EV community that are indisputably immune from bans due to their contributions and activity in the EV scene - those whom have done such great work that's helped build the industry we have today. In my view, Tony is one of those people.

That's a scary thought..
There are some people that have done so much good that rules don't apply to them?????

Regardless of the specific situation (which I hope works itself out), rules are for everyone. You don't get a pass just because you are helpful..

desiv

It's not really scary. It's business. This forum only has value because of the people that contribute to it. Banning has a place only for people whose behavior is so obviously, irreparably bad, that it causes distress to other members and in balance, their presence is better off not being here than it is being here, globally, as a whole. For individual instances of being a dick, it never warrants a ban when, on balance, their contributions here are far better than their detractions - especially when an offending post only takes on one person.

Rules are there to point to and say "here's why you are being a pest". They aren't operated by a computer, and their enforcement should be on balance with the best interests of all members and the forum admin's interests.

All this to say, when someone - and there are a number of them here and on other EV forums - dedicates so much of their time to providing value to this forum's otherwise blank database, their character is known and they should not be "bannable" after a certain point of proving their character (unless that character changes, of course - e.g. starting a competing forum and being nothing but an advertising and abrasive jerk back here). Provide feedback and occasional discipline, sure, when the situation warrants. But after a certain point, banning should be out of the question.

 

[FalconFour]

Deserves an extra post to make sure this point gets made:

I personally am profoundly disappointed that internet forums have devolved where its so easy to "permanently ban" someone for whatever reason. Talk to the hand. There is no room for dialog, for compromise. What ever happened to warnings. What ever happened to people being banned for doing something obviously very bad, rather than some relatively minor nuance.

The internet as a whole has become intolerant and an unwelcoming place for discussions. This is how our politics has become increasingly divisive. Only those with the exact same opinion are allowed on a forum.

I had thought MyNissanLeaf of all websites seemed most tolerant, mostly because everyone seems to complain about Nissan here. On most other websites on the internet, folks get instantly permanently banned if they don't drink the koolaid of the topic or product.

It is just sad that civil discussion is becoming banned. Overall banning people on any of these forums is too easy, with no recourse, no warnings, no time outs. Permanent, done. What about the people who don't have Tony's clout.

There must be a better replacement for these forum packages instead of phpbb.

^ ^ ^ ^ 100% of this. ^ ^ ^ ^

This is why, as I said earlier, I believe the old-school internet forum software, e.g. phpBB, has a very poor mechanism for "disciplining" real human members who are not just spammers or trolls.

Although I disagree that it's "devolved" as such - it's always been this bad as far back as I can remember. The real problem lies in that the systems haven't evolved to something more functional...

 

[TonyWilliams]

Seriously? There are some folks in the EV community that are indisputably immune from bans due to their contributions and activity in the EV scene - those whom have done such great work that's helped build the industry we have today. In my view, Tony is one of those people.

That's a scary thought..
There are some people that have done so much good that rules don't apply to them?????

Regardless of the specific situation (which I hope works itself out), rules are for everyone. You don't get a pass just because you are helpful..

desiv

Nobody is suggesting that I broke any forum rules, including the guy who banned me.

I'm not above the rules, nor would I want those who advertise their products to do so without "paying their dues".

 

[desiv]

Nobody is suggesting that I broke any forum rules, including the guy who banned me.

I'm not above the rules, nor would I want those who advertise their products to do so without "paying their dues".

Yep!!
I was not saying that!!! (I know you weren't saying I was, just want to make it clear.. ) ;-)
And I know that you wouldn't think you were above the rules..

Glad this is all working itself out (as these things tend to over time..)..

desiv

 

[desiv]

It's not really scary. It's business. .

I humbly disagree... ;-)
Or rather, if it's business, it's bad business.
In that, there are forums I don't go to that have great information from people that are really annoying and feel that rules don't apply to them. (Technical forums, some Linux, Retro computer, etc)..

I'd rather spend my time as a customer on a better run forum, even if they don't have some of those experts. It's choice, and that's just business. ;-)

Now, I don't believe the ban hammer should be used willy nilly.. But I do believe in mutual respect, and that applies to everyone, no matter how "good for the community" they might be..

But that's just me..

Have a good one..

desiv

 

[TonyWilliams]

I started this thread on the RAV4 EV forum:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2000

 

[VitaminJ]

Damn he unbanned you after you sent him emails like that? This Mike guy is pretty forgiving.

 

[inphoenix]

Damn he unbanned you after you sent him emails like that? This Mike guy is pretty forgiving.

+1

 

[TonyWilliams]

Damn he unbanned you after you sent him emails like that? This Mike guy is pretty forgiving.

+1

And I continued a dialog with Mike after he "permanently banned" me with no notice. In my U.S. Marine Corps days (30 years ago), I might have used something beyond just "sailor talk" :mrgreen:

By the way, I'm surprised to see 'ole "VitaminJ" here. After 6 years and 10,000+ posts here, he is only the 3rd guy that I've blocked here for his "special-ness".

Yup, just:

Gary Lieber "OrientExpress"
Ed Marek "edatoakrun"
and... you.

 

[VitaminJ]

Based on your history I'm just now learning about, maybe I should wear that as a badge of pride. I thought you blocked me why are you talking to me :mrgreen:

BTW, I don't mind a few curse words, or "sailor talk" (isn't that a late-night radio show or something...). What you wrote was not that. What you wrote was more like teenage drama queen loaded with empty threats about hurting his business and reputation...which I'm pretty sure is against the ToS.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Based on your history I'm just now learning about, maybe I should wear that as a badge of pride. I thought you blocked me why are you talking to me :mrgreen:

BTW, I don't mind a few curse words, or "sailor talk" (isn't that a late-night radio show or something...). What you wrote was not that. What you wrote was more like teenage drama queen loaded with empty threats about hurting his business and reputation...which I'm pretty sure is against the ToS.

The way the forum "blocking" works is that I can't see your posts (thankfully), but if somebody quotes you, I get all your glory.

My private conversation with anybody, including you, would not be subject to any terms of any service on this forum. What Mike plastered on the other forum are our private email exchanges. I would have told him the same stuff in person, or on the phone. I just have a real low tolerance with being jerked around, which is why you are blocked.

As to empty threats, I'm confident that Mike would just ignore me, if he thought that's what I was suggesting.

Actually, anybody who knows me will know that I'm not kidding. We will likely either transfer ownership and control of the Rav4 EV forum to myself, or we will likely start another competing forum. That's hardly an empty threat.

Not to get off topic, but I just noticed that you've been on this site for all of a month-ish? You must be special. Anyhoo, good luck with your LEAF and your "generator on a roof" concept.

 

[VitaminJ]

This so called "blocking" you speak of is not very effective I see. Yes I've been here a month, a few days longer than I've owned a Leaf, and a couple weeks longer than I needed to figure you out. I join a new forum for every car that I buy. I see that these forums are more than a place to read about cars to you, you couldn't even make a cup of tea before emailing your friends about how you were banned. I've probably read 100s of your posts on this forum, and they probably even positively enforced my decision to buy a Leaf...but damn, you are a drama queen. Mike said a few times now he didn't ban you for "no reason," but to "get your attention."

If Mike does go into business with you, that would be ill-advised considering you have vowed a personal vendetta against him and this very forum and you also have a very short fuse. Look at yourself now, you are going off on a forum newbie who is purportedly blocked by you! All I did was say one little line that would be long-forgotten by now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If Mike does go into business with you, that would be ill-advised considering you have vowed a personal vendetta against him and this very forum and you also have a very short fuse. Look at yourself now, you are going off on a forum newbie who is purportedly blocked by you! All I did was say one little line that would be long-forgotten by now.

I'm also ABSOLUTELY not going into business with Mike. Reading is fundamental, dude. No where did I state that.

No, you didn't do "one little line"... maybe that's how you got blocked in a month... you don't know what you did. Again, the blocking doesn't work very well. I'm not "going off" on you, unless you're a little paranoid. I guess you can create some drama for yourself?

For anybody who would like to know why Mr. VitaminJ is blocked, I'd suggest beginning your reading here, where he hopes my Rav4 EV will burn down:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=21816&start=60#p482453

 

[VitaminJ]

Apparently I did not get blocked :lol: honestly I'd rather you didn't respond to my posts so please keep me blocked and stick with your decision. Resist the urge to click that drop down..resist...the...urge.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Apparently I did not get blocked :lol: honestly I'd rather you didn't respond to my posts so please keep me blocked and stick with your decision. Resist the urge to click that drop down..resist...the...urge.

Of course you do. After 30 years of participating in Internet forums (starting with AVSIG on Compuserve in the 1980s), and moderating some of the worst offending forums, patterns emerge.

I can spot a common troll a mile away.

 

[DuncanCunningham]

i think Tony and VitaJ need to have a boxing match or spend sometime at a dude ranch together to settle this relationship. There's some pretty heavy flirting going on here... sorry just messing with you two. I've run out of popcorn.

How about we look at what you two, and most everyone on this forum, have in common? You both have an interest in the car Nissan called the 'Leaf'.

Look at what you share and enjoy that part. If you feel the need to hose each other with flames.. play 'World of Tanks' on the PS4, XBone or PC.. it's a lot of fun and I get to blow things up in this quick online multiplayer stress relief exercise. It's a better place to direct your manly aggression.. that is what I do. I'm grumpy all the time, so my wife tells me. She lets me play that game to "get it out of your system, honey".

 

[VitaminJ]

I am here purely out of my curiosity for these cars, but can't help but poke my head in and watch the drama unfold. Personally, I would ban anyone from any forum I owned for life if they sent me emails like what Tony sent to Mike. I expressed my surprise in a single, positive line about Mike and said nothing about Tony. Tony decided to single me out and use his massive internet ego to lord over me, so I told him what I really felt. I honestly didn't think Tony would respond at all because he blocked me and I could just have my little opinion expressed. Instead here we are 2 pages later and Tony is trying to divert negative attention directed towards him towards me, and it's transparent as glass. I will make some more popcorn to share.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Tony is trying to divert negative attention directed towards him towards me, and it's transparent as glass. I will make some more popcorn to share.

Let's see, I specifically linked to ANOTHER forum to "divert attention" from those posts on that forum? That's really special thinking. Anyhoo, this has fully played out. Again, good luck with your "generator on the roof", good luck with your insane DC connection to deadly electricity, good luck with your LEAF, and hey, with any luck, maybe a RAV4 EV will burn to the ground (maybe taking out a car load of people... one can hope, am I right????) and your day will be complete. All in a little over a month... yep, you are VERY special.

 

[TonyWilliams]

i think Tony and VitaJ need to have a boxing match or spend sometime at a dude ranch together to settle this relationship. There's some pretty heavy flirting going on here... sorry just messing with you two. I've run out of popcorn..

It does seem that way, huh? :mrgreen: I'd recommend that he block me as well, and save himself a little of that consternation that he is having. But, I've learned that the trolls NEED the interaction. I'm as much to blame by interacting with the guy as he is for being a troll, particularly when I know the game so well.

Anyhoo, nice diversion from the subject at hand.