Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[GRA]

... given the likely consumer resistance once autonomy-caused accidents start to become widespread (even though statistically the roads are safer) ...

Will be interesting if we can say, oh year there was another driverless fenderbender in Phoenix, Az, meanwhile in the past 24 hours 18 people went to the hospital because of serious non driverless accidents.

In "Driverless", they suggest an acceptable metric for fully autonomous cars (to start with) would be when they're twice as safe statistically as human drivers. They suggest calling this something like a 'Humansafe' rating, which would begin at 2.0 and go up from there. Manufacturers would undoubtedly feature high Humansafe ratings in their advertising, just as many of them do now with high NHTSA/IIHS crash test scores. Working from memory so my numbers may be low by several hundred thousand miles, but in the book they mentioned that a U.S. driver will on average have an accident every 300k(?) miles (might have been as high as 800k or anywhere in between - I'll have to re-read it). IIRC, this is based on the total number of miles driven by all vehicles divided by the number all accidents. Taking the low value, then, a statistically-significant fleet of cars capable of full autonomy would need to double the miles between accidents (while a driver was monitoring them) before they were allowed to go full autonomous. In addition, you'd probably have to agree on a way to weight the accidents for severity.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

What about a space saver donut?

 

[GRA]

I wonder if they will come out with a hatchback-sedan variant at some point like the Model S. There must be others but I can't think of any other sedans that have feature like the S.

Pretty sure the only hatchback will be the Y. Tesla is trying to keep things simple for the 3 and the extent of redesign necessary to make it into a liftback, given the big rear window and lack of a sturdy crosspiece, would seem to make it very hard and costly to do, IMO.

So far as a spare tire goes, no way in the frunk or flat in the lower well of the trunk — it is surprising just how big a spare 18 or 19 inch wheel and tire is. A spare ought to fit the upper surface of the trunk, at the cost of much of the storage space and utility. A loose spare in the trunk becomes a missile in a crash though; hope the rear seats are strong.

IIRR, I used to tie the spare to the cargo tie downs in my '88 Subaru, whether the seats were up or down. It had a compact spare under the hood, but when I needed to carry the full-size one (bought a wheel and tire) on trips it had to go in the back. With the cargo cover retracted the spare could stand upright against the left wall in the space between the rear gate and the shock tower, but with the cover in place I had to lay it flat. I say IIRR because as I think about it, I'm not certain that my '88 had cargo tie-down points, and I may be confusing it with my Forester, which does have them (and which I've used to restrain my scuba tanks, as I really don't want multiple 47 or 52.5 lb. steel cylinders slamming into me in a crash.

One of the reasons I opted for the Forester over the Legacy or Legacy Outback Wagons is that it had a spare well that I knew would fit a full-size spare, because it came with one - the other two came with compact spares in their wells, and I'm not sure a full-size one would have fit. If I hadn't already chosen the Forester for other reasons, I would have had the dealership remove a full-size wheel/ tire so I could check and see if it fit (the two cars used different sized tires, so I would have had to check both). As it is, I've yet to use the spare on this car, but I'd rather have it and not need it than the reverse, given the delay time and possible danger I'd avoid.

Compact spares are fine for use in urban areas, but for road-tripping where services are few and far between or when you might have to put chains on, they're inadequate. I remember the advice in the 88's owner's manual, that suggested that if I had a flat on a front tire and chain controls were up, I should simply swap a rear tire to the front and put the spare on the rear (chains were to be put on on the front tires if you only had one set). I read that and thought to myself that the person who wrote that should be sentenced to carry out that operation in wet blowing snow while lying on the same mixed with freezing mud without rain gear or a ground cloth on a soft road shoulder, hoping that you don't snap off the head of a cold lug nut while doing so, and/or the car doesn't blow or tilt off the jack and crush you.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Compact spare can get you off the road to a tire place. Definitely should take it easy driving on them, and get it switched out ASAP. That said, one time I was on a road trip going like 75+ mph and a minivan running on a compact spare passed me like I was standing still.
I guess as the world shrinks you're never that far from a source of tires. Maybe Amazon can bring you one with a drone.

 

[KeiJidosha]

What about a space saver donut?

Check for a Jack and lug wrench too. No spare, likely no jack. And what do the jack points look like (flat, edge, recess?)

 

[scottf200]

What about a space saver donut?

Check for a Jack and lug wrench too. No spare, likely no jack. And what do the jack points look like (flat, edge, recess?)

Some sites provide all the details about spares, jacks, jack points, etc. For example on the GM-Volt site some guys figured out what cars have compatible spare tires. For example I found a nice one at a junk yard for one of my Volts: '2003-2007 CADILLAC CTS STS Aluminum Spacesaver Spare Tire'
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?48058-Volt-Spare-Tire-Guide

 

[Graffi]

Except in the situation where you have completely destroyed your tire, if all you have is a nail or screw stuck in your tire that is causing a slow leak there is no need for a spare tire. You can quickly and easily repair the tire and be on your way in just a few minutes. All you need is a tire repair kit (about $5), a 12v air pump (about $25), and a pair of needle nose pliers. Nice extras to have is a screw driver and a spray bottle of water with a little dish soap in it (both to find the leak and clean your hands when you are finished).

Here are a couple of Youtube videos but you can watch many more of these on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T-rmhXUR8o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aQRO29ZzbE

If you notice the air pressure going down just find a safe place to pull off the road, then find the leak. If you have two people it is a little easier so one can let the car roll forward or backward to ge the tire in a position you can easily fix it.

For years I have carried my kit on long distance trips but have only needed to use it with local driving. The last time was within the last year. I drove it to my local tire store but they would not fix it because the screw was in the tread but too close to the side wall. My choice was to fix it myself or buy a new tire. I decided to fix it myself with my travel kit and see how long the repair would work. It held and never needed to replace the tire.

If you are thinking that you do not know what to do and how to do it just watch these videos. It is so easy, and fast. You can fix the flat and be on you way again within 5 or 10 minutes. Much quicker that waiting on a tow truck or someone to come fix it for you. Also, I highly recommend that you NOT use the can of slime or foam to fix the leak. Yes, it will get you on your way so you can drive to a tire repair shop but then you have to purchase a new tire, as well as a new Tire Pressure Sensor. Both will be destroyed by the slime or foam. jmho

 

[GRA]

Compact spare can get you off the road to a tire place. Definitely should take it easy driving on them, and get it switched out ASAP. That said, one time I was on a road trip going like 75+ mph and a minivan running on a compact spare passed me like I was standing still.
I guess as the world shrinks you're never that far from a source of tires. Maybe Amazon can bring you one with a drone.

Yeah, except Murphy's law being what it is, chances are the tire place will be closed when you need it, and after you've waited around for them to open, they won't have the tire you need in stock so you have to wait even longer while it's delivered (and pay through the nose for it). I've had this happen to friends, and you can find a recent account on TMC of the same thing. So thanks, but being reliant on a compact spare when I'm 30 miles up a rocky dirt road and it's another 60-100 miles to the nearest place I might be able to buy a tire, when I'm a day or more's driving range from home and it's Sunday, is an adventure I can do without. :x

 

[rmay635703]

I only get flat tires Sunday night

 

[EVDRIVER]

The Model 3 has self-vulcanizing tires that uses the heat from the pack to make the seal from a thin membrane in the tire that melts and seals as it cools when pushed our the puncture.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It appears that the Model 3 has the following battery sizes:

Standard battery:
51kWh usable * 4.3 miles per kWh = 220 miles range
130 estimate MPGe EPA

Long Range battery:
73.6kWh usable * 4.2 miles per kWh = 310 miles range
126 MPGe EPA

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Good summary article for the masses:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2018-tesla-model-3-everything-we-know-feature

 

[rmay635703]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=455667048125283&id=244247975933859&ref=page_internal

But only billionaires will buy the car, be sure to provide your opinion of this and other highly accurate videos on their respective Facebook pages

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=455667048125283&id=244247975933859&ref=page_internal

But only billionaires will buy the car, be sure to provide your opinion of this and other highly accurate videos on their respective Facebook pages

social content farm

 

[edatoakrun]

Now that the first video of the model 3 center screen in action has been released, some comments on the model 3's blank dash design seem to be agreeing with the one below, RE the HVAC controls:

This First Look At The Tesla Model 3's Dash Controls Is Not At All Promising

Possibly the most controversial design decision of the Tesla Model 3, even beyond its Renault Caravelle-like grille-less face, is its instrument panel, which consists solely of a center-mounted landscape-oriented LCD screen. This tweeted video showing how the climate-control air-direction system works is one of the first real looks we’ve had at the Model 3's UI, and I really can’t say I’m impressed.

That puts me in pretty direct opposition to noted rich guy Bill Lee, the Tesla investor who posted the video of the HVAC control interface, who called it “genius.”

Look for yourself: (video at link)

...The whole ventless HVAC thing all seems like a design solution that invents a problem that never really existed. Sure, it does look cleaner, but I never minded the look of most physical dashboard vents. Some even enhanced the interior design.

Physical vents also gave visual information about the airflow even when the car or A/C or heat wasn’t on. You could see which vents were closed, which ones pointed one way or the other. They inherently retained the last-used position, and allowed for airflow in more than two directions.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the Model 3's HVAC solution isn’t “genius” at all; it’s stupid....

Physical vent controls and vanes aren’t ‘clumsy’ as Bill Lee suggests. They’re really quite elegant. They take no extra power, they give direct and immediate feedback, they don’t require taking eyes or attention off driving, they allow for greater flexibility of airflow directions, and they’re non-modal, and don’t lock out any other controls of the car.

The Tesla Model 3's solution is less effective in every possible way. That’s a weird idea of “genius,” if you ask me.

Also, Why Is Everything So Damn Small On That Screen?

http://jalopnik.com/this-first-look-at-the-tesla-model-3s-dash-controls-is-1797857601

 

[Zythryn]

Now that the first video of the model 3 center screen in action has been released, some comments on the model 3s blank dash design seem to be agreeing with the one below, RE the HVAC controls:

This First Look At The Tesla Model 3's Dash Controls Is Not At All Promising

Possibly the most controversial design decision of the Tesla Model 3, even beyond its Renault Caravelle-like grille-less face, is its instrument panel, which consists solely of a center-mounted landscape-oriented LCD screen. This tweeted video showing how the climate-control air-direction system works is one of the first real looks we’ve had at the Model 3's UI, and I really can’t say I’m impressed.

That puts me in pretty direct opposition to noted rich guy Bill Lee, the Tesla investor who posted the video of the HVAC control interface, who called it “genius.”

Look for yourself: (video at link)

...The whole ventless HVAC thing all seems like a design solution that invents a problem that never really existed. Sure, it does look cleaner, but I never minded the look of most physical dashboard vents. Some even enhanced the interior design.

Physical vents also gave visual information about the airflow even when the car or A/C or heat wasn’t on. You could see which vents were closed, which ones pointed one way or the other. They inherently retained the last-used position, and allowed for airflow in more than two directions.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the Model 3's HVAC solution isn’t “genius” at all; it’s stupid....

Physical vent controls and vanes aren’t ‘clumsy’ as Bill Lee suggests. They’re really quite elegant. They take no extra power, they give direct and immediate feedback, they don’t require taking eyes or attention off driving, they allow for greater flexibility of airflow directions, and they’re non-modal, and don’t lock out any other controls of the car.

The Tesla Model 3's solution is less effective in every possible way. That’s a weird idea of “genius,” if you ask me.

Also, Why Is Everything So Damn Small On That Screen?

http://jalopnik.com/this-first-look-at-the-tesla-model-3s-dash-controls-is-1797857601

Not surprising that there are people that don't agree.
All the statements he makes though are not yet known.
We don't know that Tesla's implementation will require the driver take their eyes or attention off the road, or that vanes offer greater flexibility, or that the Tesla controls will "lock out" other controls.

They may do one or all of the above, or none.

 

[Zythryn]

Now that the first video of the model 3 center screen in action has been released, some comments on the model 3s blank dash design seem to be agreeing with the one below, RE the HVAC controls:

This First Look At The Tesla Model 3's Dash Controls Is Not At All Promising

Possibly the most controversial design decision of the Tesla Model 3, even beyond its Renault Caravelle-like grille-less face, is its instrument panel, which consists solely of a center-mounted landscape-oriented LCD screen. This tweeted video showing how the climate-control air-direction system works is one of the first real looks we’ve had at the Model 3's UI, and I really can’t say I’m impressed.

That puts me in pretty direct opposition to noted rich guy Bill Lee, the Tesla investor who posted the video of the HVAC control interface, who called it “genius.”

Look for yourself: (video at link)

...The whole ventless HVAC thing all seems like a design solution that invents a problem that never really existed. Sure, it does look cleaner, but I never minded the look of most physical dashboard vents. Some even enhanced the interior design.

Physical vents also gave visual information about the airflow even when the car or A/C or heat wasn’t on. You could see which vents were closed, which ones pointed one way or the other. They inherently retained the last-used position, and allowed for airflow in more than two directions.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the Model 3's HVAC solution isn’t “genius” at all; it’s stupid....

Physical vent controls and vanes aren’t ‘clumsy’ as Bill Lee suggests. They’re really quite elegant. They take no extra power, they give direct and immediate feedback, they don’t require taking eyes or attention off driving, they allow for greater flexibility of airflow directions, and they’re non-modal, and don’t lock out any other controls of the car.

The Tesla Model 3's solution is less effective in every possible way. That’s a weird idea of “genius,” if you ask me.

Also, Why Is Everything So Damn Small On That Screen?

http://jalopnik.com/this-first-look-at-the-tesla-model-3s-dash-controls-is-1797857601

Not surprising that there are people that don't agree.
I don't care for orange cars. I know others that like them.

As for the HVAC controls, all the statements he makes though are not yet known.
We don't know that Tesla's implementation will require the driver take their eyes or attention off the road, or that vanes offer greater flexibility, or that the Tesla controls will "lock out" other controls.

They may do one or all of the above, or none.

 

[GRA]

Now that the first video of the model 3 center screen in action has been released, some comments on the model 3's blank dash design seem to be agreeing with the one below, RE the HVAC controls:

This First Look At The Tesla Model 3's Dash Controls Is Not At All Promising

Possibly the most controversial design decision of the Tesla Model 3, even beyond its Renault Caravelle-like grille-less face, is its instrument panel, which consists solely of a center-mounted landscape-oriented LCD screen. This tweeted video showing how the climate-control air-direction system works is one of the first real looks we’ve had at the Model 3's UI, and I really can’t say I’m impressed.

That puts me in pretty direct opposition to noted rich guy Bill Lee, the Tesla investor who posted the video of the HVAC control interface, who called it “genius.”

Look for yourself: (video at link)

...The whole ventless HVAC thing all seems like a design solution that invents a problem that never really existed. Sure, it does look cleaner, but I never minded the look of most physical dashboard vents. Some even enhanced the interior design.

Physical vents also gave visual information about the airflow even when the car or A/C or heat wasn’t on. You could see which vents were closed, which ones pointed one way or the other. They inherently retained the last-used position, and allowed for airflow in more than two directions.

The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the Model 3's HVAC solution isn’t “genius” at all; it’s stupid....

Physical vent controls and vanes aren’t ‘clumsy’ as Bill Lee suggests. They’re really quite elegant. They take no extra power, they give direct and immediate feedback, they don’t require taking eyes or attention off driving, they allow for greater flexibility of airflow directions, and they’re non-modal, and don’t lock out any other controls of the car.

The Tesla Model 3's solution is less effective in every possible way. That’s a weird idea of “genius,” if you ask me.

Also, Why Is Everything So Damn Small On That Screen?

http://jalopnik.com/this-first-look-at-the-tesla-model-3s-dash-controls-is-1797857601

OFFS, that is just ridiculous! I notice that the guy using these controls isn't even the driver, yet look at how long he's got to concentrate on the screen in the video, not looking at the road. An ergonomics safety fail, just like every other touch screen HVAC control I've seen. You'd better be able to control the entire HVAC system from steering wheel mounted buttons, or else be willing to trust your life to A/P (and be willing to pay for it) while you look away from the road for many seconds and try to use this mess as the car bounces around. No thanks. Until they get to Level 4 autonomy, I'll stick to physical (or verbal) controls.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I never touch the HVAC controls on my Tesla unless I change the temp which is not a big deal and will likely be via voice. I simply set it once and forget it. I think there is far too much worry about this. Anyone that thinks this is a big deal can pass on the car or get some real world driving on one and decide then. I find my 2016 Tacoma HVAC FAR more bothersome than tan an S or a 3 interface. My guess is most people like this car's interface.

 

[GRA]

I never touch the HVAC controls on my Tesla unless I change the temp which is not a big deal and will likely be via voice. I simply set it once and forget it. I think there is far too much worry about this. Anyone that thinks this is a big deal can pass on the car or get some real world driving on one and decide then. I find my 2016 Tacoma HVAC FAR more bothersome than tan an S or a 3 interface. My guess is most people like this car's interface.

We obviously differ in how often we adjust our car's HVAC controls. I detest my car's auto climate control, and turn it off. I couldn't order the car without it with the safety features I wanted, but thankfully it can be turned off, even though it defaults to ACC and I have to turn it off every damned time I first change a setting after starting the car. I knew when I bought the car that it would irritate me as long as I owned it, and it has, but it was worth putting up with it for the other safety-related options I got (disc brakes on all four wheels instead of discs/drums, stopping the car in 15 feet less distance plus zero fade; Electronic Brake Force Distribution, and a limited slip diff.).

Whether or not most people like this interface (and it's clear that those of us with a background or interest in Human Factors don't) isn't the appropriate criteria, it's whether most people can operate the car safely while using it. Most people like the interface of smart phones, but far too many people use them while driving where they are manifestly unsafe, which is why it's illegal to use them while doing so. Hasn't stopped most people from doing so anyway, and now we're giving them an even bigger video screen to be distracted by. Is there anyone who'd seriously argue that we don't have enough distracted drivers on the road already? I spend enough time as it is while walking or biking, avoiding being killed by idiots who have one hand (if I'm lucky) on the wheel, holding a cell phone with the other in their lap, as they look down and text one-thumbed.