Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

That's one of the most unreliable options on Porsches, BMWs, & MBs! It's an easy $1500 repair per wheel.

***Correction- The first production general release 3 cars will all have springs then there will be an option for air suspension. Yes. air can be a high repair, on the S it is very nice to have because the car easily bottoms out and nose dives into driveways, etc. I would not buy a car with air unless I was going to get rid of it before the warranty ran out.

+100. The same comment applies to heavy, unnecessary, unreliable and expensive Falcon Wing Doors which also decrease the car's flexibility, which is why the Model Y has to be available without them for me to consider it. My current Subie turns fourteen and a half tomorrow, the same age as its predecessor when that car was stolen, and I fully expect it to last me 20+ years if necessary; all my cars (barring the stolen '88 Subie) have reached that age or beyond.

I believe it was the S/X base configuration that was recently changed to include air suspension.

My believe is that we are currently nearing the point at which there will be a fast shift toward total autonomy in vehicles. Certainly within 10 years the odds are very good that the bulk of new cars will sell with this, and that's going to make cars without it suffer horribly in the resale department. New tech in vehicles has always been very gradual and modest over time, but even today the bulk of cars lack any sort of emergency braking system, so how would a car like that fare on the market when in a handful of years from now a ton of cars have some degree of self driving (if not complete autonomy)?

 

[rmay635703]

Be aware government interest in autonomous vehicles is less safety and more about control and reducing cost.

Government central planning of car speeds and capabilities will allow them to require cars to be optimized for maximum economy and set maximum speeds to do this as well.

Once cars are only autonomous there will be no need for more than 10hp in a car since all vehicles will drive uniformly and automatically allow slower vehicles to enter.

There will be no need for a car to move faster than 45 or 50 mph since fuel economy can be doubled designing and downsizing the motor to match and government will set the speed.

Due to the vehicle being autonomous the number of passive safety features can be reduced as well and vehicles could then be lightened to less than half what they are today further reducing resource use.

What I am stating has been the intent of autonomous vehicles since their inception yet strong supporters are so selfish they seem to not comprehend the wide spanning consequences and limitations that will be imposed by such a system.

At the end of the day you will be left with a transport appliance, uninspired and as boring to operate as a toaster

 

[jhm614]

Be aware government interest in autonomous vehicles is less safety and more about control and reducing cost.

At the end of the day you will be left with a transport appliance, uninspired and as boring to operate as a toaster

Since 80% of my driving is a commute, surrounded by other commuters, my driving is already uninspired and boring. I am completely willing to trade my car's control to gain an hour per day of being able to do something other than boring commuter driving...

 

[EVDRIVER]

Be aware government interest in autonomous vehicles is less safety and more about control and reducing cost.

Government central planning of car speeds and capabilities will allow them to require cars to be optimized for maximum economy and set maximum speeds to do this as well.

Once cars are only autonomous there will be no need for more than 10hp in a car since all vehicles will drive uniformly and automatically allow slower vehicles to enter.

There will be no need for a car to move faster than 45 or 50 mph since fuel economy can be doubled designing and downsizing the motor to match and government will set the speed.

Due to the vehicle being autonomous the number of passive safety features can be reduced as well and vehicles could then be lightened to less than half what they are today further reducing resource use.

What I am stating has been the intent of autonomous vehicles since their inception yet strong supporters are so selfish they seem to not comprehend the wide spanning consequences and limitations that will be imposed by such a system.

At the end of the day you will be left with a transport appliance, uninspired and as boring to operate as a toaster

Better than being killed by an 8000 lb SUV with a bad driver.

 

[wwhitney]

At the end of the day you will be left with a transport appliance, uninspired and as boring to operate as a toaster

Sounds great!

Cheers, Wayne

 

[GRA]

***Correction- The first production general release 3 cars will all have springs then there will be an option for air suspension. Yes. air can be a high repair, on the S it is very nice to have because the car easily bottoms out and nose dives into driveways, etc. I would not buy a car with air unless I was going to get rid of it before the warranty ran out.

+100. The same comment applies to heavy, unnecessary, unreliable and expensive Falcon Wing Doors which also decrease the car's flexibility, which is why the Model Y has to be available without them for me to consider it. My current Subie turns fourteen and a half tomorrow, the same age as its predecessor when that car was stolen, and I fully expect it to last me 20+ years if necessary; all my cars (barring the stolen '88 Subie) have reached that age or beyond.

I believe it was the S/X base configuration that was recently changed to include air suspension.

My believe is that we are currently nearing the point at which there will be a fast shift toward total autonomy in vehicles. Certainly within 10 years the odds are very good that the bulk of new cars will sell with this, and that's going to make cars without it suffer horribly in the resale department. New tech in vehicles has always been very gradual and modest over time, but even today the bulk of cars lack any sort of emergency braking system, so how would a car like that fare on the market when in a handful of years from now a ton of cars have some degree of self driving (if not complete autonomy)?

I don't know that I'd call it a fast shift, given the likely consumer resistance once autonomy-caused accidents start to become widespread (even though statistically the roads are safer), but I expect that to happen as well. I'm trying to hold off buying any car until I can get one with at least Level 4 autonomy that still lets me drive when I wish, but hopefully by then I simply won't need to own a car anymore. It will certainly take many more than a few years for the entire fleet to turn over, and manually-driven cars to be banned from public roads. BTW, a good discussion of the technical, legal, ethical, societal and financial hurdles and effects that autonomous cars will possibly/likely bring on can be found in
"Driverless: Intelligent Cars and the Road Ahead": https://www.amazon.com/Driverless-Intelligent-Cars-Ahead-Press/dp/0262035227

 

[DanCar]

... given the likely consumer resistance once autonomy-caused accidents start to become widespread (even though statistically the roads are safer) ...

Will be interesting if we can say, oh year there was another driverless fenderbender in Phoenix, Az, meanwhile in the past 24 hours 18 people went to the hospital because of serious non driverless accidents.

 

[scottf200]

Better/brighter view of the Model 3 trunk. It is pretty big/deep. This will be a hit / surprise to many buyers.

 

[Zythryn]

From the same source I find this far more interesting.

Not sure if this is preliminary or final. Seems the labels were in the frunks.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Is there room for a spare tire?

 

[edatoakrun]

From the same source I find this far more interesting...

Not sure if this is preliminary or final. Seems the labels were in the frunks.

That's not bad. 126 MPGe combined is three or four miles more than I guessed.

Has anyone reported the City/Highway breakdown, or the EPA range, on that sticker?

My guesses...and that is exactly what they are, since I make no claims of inside sources or information:


Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 Tesla 3 (310 m pack) 125 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway


Edatoakrun, 8/3/17 LEAF Gen two (base) 140 MPGe City 120 MPGe Highway

Guess the Monroney contest: Tesla 3 and LEAF 2 efficiency ratings

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=24340

 

[edatoakrun]

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI-HTSLV00.0L13.PDF

Assuming ~88% charge efficiency, ~78 kWh (available) pack?

Tesla, Inc. Manufacturer Code TSL
Test Group HTSLV00.0L13 Evaporative/Refueling Family -- Certificate Number HTSLV00.0L13-004 CARB Executive Order # -- Certificate Issue Date 07/05/2017 Certificate Revision Date -- Certificate Effective Date 07/05/2017 Conditional Certificate No
CSI Revision # -- CSI Submission/Revision Date 06/30/2017 08:04:21 PM
Model Year 2017
Test Group Information
CSI Type New Running Change Reference Number -- GHG Exempt Status Not Exempt
Drive Sources and Fuel(s)
Drive Source #1: Electric Motor...

Hybrid Electric Vehicle And Fuel Cell Information
Rechargable Energy Storage System Battery(s) Rechargable Energy Storage System, if Other -- Battery Type Lithium Ion Number of Battery Packs 1
Total Voltage of Battery Packs 350 Battery Energy Capacity 230
Battery Specific Energy 150 Battery Charger Type On-Board
Number of Capacitors -- Capacitor Rating (In Farads) -- Mfr Capacitor Comments -- Hydraulic System Description -- Regenerative Braking Type Electrical Regen Brake
Regenerative Braking Source Both Driver Controlled Regenerative Braking No
Mfr Regenerative Braking Description -- Drive Motor(s)/Generator(s) 1
Motor/Generator Type 1 AC 3 PHASE PERMENANT MAGNET Rated Motor/Generator Power 192
Mfr Fuel Cell Description -- Fuel Cell On-Board H2 Storage Capacity (kg) -- Usable H2 Fill Capacity (kg) -- Mfr Hybrid Electric/ Electric Vehicle
Comments 2017MY Model 3 RWD Long Range Carline...

PHEV/EV TEST INFO
Recharge Event Voltage 208 Recharge Event Energy (kiloWatt-hours) 89.404
Charge Depleting Range (Calculated miles) 495.11 Charge Depleting Range (Actual miles) 495.04
Equivalent All Electric Range (miles) 495.11
Number of Charge Depleting Bags/Phases
Conducted 1...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/spoiler-alert-mild-speculation-tesla-has-created-a-monster.95652/

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-3-energy-consumption-rate-battery-size-and-sc-charge-rates.95049/page-4

 

[scottf200]

Is there room for a spare tire?

I'm sure some may do that but as you know many vehicles don't come with spares these days. I did end up putting one in our Volts to save time and not be stranded if we were off main highways or a ways away from 'cities'.

 

[wwhitney]

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI-HTSLV00.0L13.PDF

Assuming ~88% charge efficiency, ~78 kWh (available) pack?

Or given "Total Voltage of Battery Packs 350 Battery Energy Capacity 230", if the 230 figure is Ah, the nominal capacity is 80.5 kWh for the "Model 3 Long Range".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[edatoakrun]

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI-HTSLV00.0L13.PDF

Assuming ~88% charge efficiency, ~78 kWh (available) pack?

Or given "Total Voltage of Battery Packs 350 Battery Energy Capacity 230", if the 230 figure is Ah, the nominal capacity is 80.5 kWh for the "Model 3 Long Range"...

Doesn't that sound too low as a total capacity figure?

By nominal, do you mean the capacity between the BMS "100% charge" top limit, and full discharge, including that to which access is blocked by the BMS?

Of course, without any manufacturer standards in kWh characterization TSLA can identify this pack as any pretty much any kWh capacity it wants to.

I was only guessing about the ~78 kWh accessible capacity, above, but...

...There is average voltage of 351V during testing and integrated AmpHours of 222Ah.
222 x 351 = 77,9 kWh used during the test...

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/spoiler-alert-mild-speculation-tesla-has-created-a-monster.95652/

Also:

(P 6)...Manufacturer Test Comments Internal Test results for MY2017 Model 3 Long Range. Range determined by using SAE J1634 Multi-cycle test procedure. END-SOC - 78270 wh...

https://www3.epa.gov/otaq/datafiles/CSI-HTSLV00.0L13.PDF

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Is there room for a spare tire?

I'm sure some may do that but as you know many vehicles don't come with spares these days. I did end up putting one in our Volts to save time and not be stranded if we were off main highways or a ways away from 'cities'.

15 cu feet total between trunk and frunk means not a chance in hell

 

[EVDRIVER]

I hope the rear seat fold down and not just one side. The S has so much cargo capability that is lost in a trunk car. Plus camping as well

 

[Zythryn]

I hope the rear seat fold down and not just one side. The S has so much cargo capability that is lost in a trunk car. Plus camping as well

The back seat is split 40/60. Both sides fold almost flat.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I wonder if they will come out with a hatchback-sedan variant at some point like the Model S. There must be others but I can't think of any other sedans that have feature like the S.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I wonder if they will come out with a hatchback-sedan variant at some point like the Model S. There must be others but I can't think of any other sedans that have feature like the S.

Pretty sure the only hatchback will be the Y. Tesla is trying to keep things simple for the 3 and the extent of redesign necessary to make it into a liftback, given the big rear window and lack of a sturdy crosspiece, would seem to make it very hard and costly to do, IMO.

So far as a spare tire goes, no way in the frunk or flat in the lower well of the trunk — it is surprising just how big a spare 18 or 19 inch wheel and tire is. A spare ought to fit the upper surface of the trunk, at the cost of much of the storage space and utility. A loose spare in the trunk becomes a missile in a crash though; hope the rear seats are strong.