Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[lpickup]

Now that the first video of the model 3 center screen in action has been released, some comments on the model 3's blank dash design seem to be agreeing with the one below, RE the HVAC controls:

No argument from me on the fact that this is a step backwards. For some reason the hi-tech trend appears to be getting rid of knobs and buttons (the single home button on the iPhone is just one example).

Having said that, I actually don't adjust the airflow, etc. all that often (only need to do it after my wife for some reason has adjusted the vents!) so it's probably not a huge deal that you have to use this strange interface to do it, because I'd likely set it and forget it.

But yeah, seriously, sliders, levers, etc. are so intuitive! On my wife's Volt I need to have her do all the climate control when I'm driving because it's all so confusing just to adjust the temperature that I can't take the the time to study the touch screen to make sure everything is okay. At least on the LEAF I can just hit the AUTO button and use the temp up/down buttons (real buttons, thank you) and it usually does the right thing.

 

[edatoakrun]

Ever since the model 3 blank dash/single screen was announced, I've been wondering:

Tue May 30, 2017 10:45 am

...Assuming TSLA is serious about this, someone explain to me, please.

You have all that prime real estate, right in front of the driver, available to place controls and information displays.

And instead of utilizing that surface, you leave it blank, and try to move the same data and operations through a tiny square on the right.

Just to save a few bucks?

Just to be different?

And if that is the case, does this weirdness for its own sake remind anyone of the Model X "falcon wing doors" fiasco?...

And on reflection, I think that I personally would probably try to avoid any car that used this design.

But anyone under 30 (40?) probably has their brain wired in a way that finds the single-rectangular-touch-screen more intuitive, and more acceptable.

Still, I have a hard time believing TSLA will rush out to replace the S and X dash designs with anything like the 3's.

So, will anyone, of any age, consider the 3's dash superior to the design of the X or S?

Or just cheaper, and weirder...

 

[EVDRIVER]

The auto function on the Model 3 works better than any ICE car IVE been in. This is splitting hairs over something most people will never touch and have never used and based on one video. I think that anyone that has used this system wont look back unless they have an AOL email address.

 

[GRA]

While I like the three rotary switch (plus a couple of buttons for A/C/Recirc/DEF) manual HVAC control which is standard on many cars without ACC, my all-time favorite from the human factors perspective was the set-up on my '88 Subaru. The HVAC controls were at the right end of the driver's dash console, within reach of your right fingers while your thumb was hooked over the wheel rim at 2 o'clock.

The temp control was a nearly vertical slide lever (ISTR it slanted slightly inward from bottom to top) with an index pointer on the knob: down for cold, up for hot, and I think the slide range was color-coded blue to orange.

The air direction control was a set of rectangular buttons in the same slightly slanted near-vertical line right next to it: Off at the bottom, then IIRR Vent (dash only), Bi-Lev (floor/vent), Floor (some DEF), DEF as you went up. When a button was selected, it stayed depressed, so there was never any doubt by feel which one was selected. As the cars had dealer-installed A/C, that replaced the Bi-Lev button IIRC, which was a shame: it should have had a separate A/C button.

Directly under the slide lever and buttons was a rotary fan speed knob with a index pointer molded in, with four or five detents for Off and speeds 1 through 3 (or 4, I forget).

These three HVAC controls were simple, intuitive, unmistakable by touch and with tactile indications of what you'd selected, grouped together and never requiring me to take my eyes off the road or devote any conscious thought to finding or using them.

About the only possible improvement I could think of would be to switch the position of the Floor button to just above the Off, then Bi-Lev/Vent/DEF, but as I tended to toggle between Floor and DEF in cold weather, and Vent/Bi-Lev (A/C in this case) in hot, putting those combinations next to each other made sense. I can't remember where the button for the rear window defroster was [Edit: It might be the button left of the fan speed knob in the photo linked below]. In any case, it was equally easy to locate and use by feel.

Ah, I found a photo, the first one, top left (ignore the digital dash, I didn't want it and my car had conventional gauges):

https://www.google.com/search?biw=9...y-ab..0.0.0.A2WkSOs1zcI#imgrc=2VdK0QUDUArHjM:

 

[GRA]

But yeah, seriously, sliders, levers, etc. are so intuitive! On my wife's Volt I need to have her do all the climate control when I'm driving because it's all so confusing just to adjust the temperature that I can't take the the time to study the touch screen to make sure everything is okay. At least on the LEAF I can just hit the AUTO button and use the temp up/down buttons (real buttons, thank you) and it usually does the right thing.

Note that for the Gen 2 Volt Chevy went back to physical HVAC controls, after so many people complained about the touchscreen.

 

[abasile]

I'm curious as to how effectively this HVAC system pushes air around the cabin. That's more important to me than whether it's controlled from the touchscreen. Adjusting the fan vents isn't something we tend to do very often.

 

[GRA]

I'm curious as to how effectively this HVAC system pushes air around the cabin. That's more important to me than whether it's controlled from the touchscreen. Adjusting the fan vents isn't something we tend to do very often.

I don't adjust the vent louvers very often, but I do frequently adjust where the air's being sent, its temp and/or force. In my car ACC always seems to default to a max. setting when first turned on, trying to heat or cool the entire cabin as quickly as possible, and invariably blowing a gale (speed 4) when all I want is speed 0, 1 or 2, with the air blowing directly on me rather than trying to change the cabin's climate. As it's usually just me or one other person in the car, it's always struck me as extremely wasteful of energy to let ACC do its thing as if I had a full load of people. Perhaps that's one of the reasons why I've never had any difficulty exceeding EPA mileage ratings.

 

[evnow]

But yeah, seriously, sliders, levers, etc. are so intuitive! On my wife's Volt I need to have her do all the climate control when I'm driving because it's all so confusing just to adjust the temperature that I can't take the the time to study the touch screen to make sure everything is okay. At least on the LEAF I can just hit the AUTO button and use the temp up/down buttons (real buttons, thank you) and it usually does the right thing.

Note that for the Gen 2 Volt Chevy went back to physical HVAC controls, after so many people complained about the touchscreen.

LOL. In Volt 2 , the HVAC buttons are as unintuitive as they come. To get any cooling, you have to hit the "MAX" button.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm curious as to how effectively this HVAC system pushes air around the cabin. That's more important to me than whether it's controlled from the touchscreen. Adjusting the fan vents isn't something we tend to do very often.

It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own. The HVAC is a non-issue. Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense. The steering buttons can control temp etc, the user can define this. There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically. These are buttons you rarely need to touch and those that you do are on the wheel or steering yoke. In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything. The car even measures humidity and varies the mix to keep the window from fogging and it works great. I don't like Auto climate in general but on the Tesla I use it exclusively.

 

[GRA]

But yeah, seriously, sliders, levers, etc. are so intuitive! On my wife's Volt I need to have her do all the climate control when I'm driving because it's all so confusing just to adjust the temperature that I can't take the the time to study the touch screen to make sure everything is okay. At least on the LEAF I can just hit the AUTO button and use the temp up/down buttons (real buttons, thank you) and it usually does the right thing.

Note that for the Gen 2 Volt Chevy went back to physical HVAC controls, after so many people complained about the touchscreen.

LOL. In Volt 2 , the HVAC buttons are as unintuitive as they come. To get any cooling, you have to hit the "MAX" button.

Can't say I've tried it, but they'd have to be absolutely awful to be worse than a touch screen - you'd really have to work at making it so. It's certainly possible to design bad physical controls, or some combination of physical and electronic. Subaru boobed with my current car, which in addition to defaulting to ACC also put the air direction control on a rotary switch that, rather than having actual physical detents, required you to rotate it to the right or left stop, which made an electrical contact and it would electronically step through Floor, Bi-Lev etc. Holding it against the stop would step through more than one selection until you released it. If you have the fan speed set Off or on 1 or sometimes even 2, the only way you can tell what you've selected is to look down and right at the damned knob, which has little indicator lights which show which air direction is selected.

Apparently lots of people besides me let Subaru know they weren't happy with this design, because when I was in the dealer a few years later, I noticed for the mid-life update they'd changed the controls for ACC-equipped cars, putting ACC as the first selection on a new rotary air direction switch, which now physically moved and had detents for each selection. If you didn't have it in ACC it was never used.

 

[Zythryn]

...

So, will anyone, of any age, consider the 3's dash superior to the design of the X or S?

Or just cheaper, and weirder...

I'll let you know once I have a chance to try it.
I understand skepticism of something you haven't tried, but the absolute certainty expressed by some is pretty stunning.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Initial thought is yeah the vents look silly. As the jalopnik article points out, tesla has invented a solution to a non-problem.

I actually move my vents a lot. I like them blowing in my face; my wife doesn't. If these vents have a memory setting in the premium edition, that would be awesome but I'm not sure they do. I can change vents instantly while driving. I'm honestly turned off by the entire screen for everything about this car, but I am open to accepting it overall. Hopefully it is better than it looks to me.

Oh, as for auto climate control I've had it in my various cars for about 7 years now and I never use it in any of them. Neither does my wife. I find it just never does what I want when I want.

For some reason the hi-tech trend appears to be getting rid of knobs and buttons

In web design, too. I hate the modern trend of minimalism in web pages, with everything nested deep in menus so that the main screen is devoid of anything except a massive font not capable of displaying any information without a mile of scrolling. Who the heck is pushing this crap.

The auto function on the Model 3 works better than any ICE car IVE been in. This is splitting hairs over something most people will never touch and have never used and based on one video. I think that anyone that has used this system wont look back unless they have an AOL email address.

Hopefully you're right!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Initial thought is yeah the vents look silly. As the jalopnik article points out, tesla has invented a solution to a non-problem.

I actually move my vents a lot. I like them blowing in my face; my wife doesn't. If these vents have a memory setting in the premium edition, that would be awesome but I'm not sure they do. I can change vents instantly while driving. I'm honestly turned off by the entire screen for everything about this car, but I am open to accepting it overall. Hopefully it is better than it looks to me.

Oh, as for auto climate control I've had it in my various cars for about 7 years now and I never use it in any of them. Neither does my wife. I find it just never does what I want when I want.

For some reason the hi-tech trend appears to be getting rid of knobs and buttons

In web design, too. I hate the modern trend of minimalism in web pages, with everything nested deep in menus so that the main screen is devoid of anything except a massive font not capable of displaying any information without a mile of scrolling. Who the heck is pushing this crap.

The auto function on the Model 3 works better than any ICE car IVE been in. This is splitting hairs over something most people will never touch and have never used and based on one video. I think that anyone that has used this system wont look back unless they have an AOL email address.

Hopefully you're right!

I am not positive but I believe the driver profile remembers each person's HVAC settings.

 

[abasile]

If these vents have a memory setting in the premium edition, that would be awesome but I'm not sure they do. I can change vents instantly while driving.

I agree that a memory setting would be nice. If this isn't part of the UI today, Tesla may well add it in the future.

I hate the modern trend of minimalism in web pages, with everything nested deep in menus so that the main screen is devoid of anything except a massive font not capable of displaying any information without a mile of scrolling.

I guess we all have our own preferences. Personally, I'm happy with the web trend toward minimalism, though I agree that requiring excessive scrolling is bad design. I feel that cluttered, "busy" web pages have a way of hiding information in plain sight. It's often faster to search many "legacy" sites using Google than to attempt navigating them directly.

On a dashboard (car, web, etc.), I'd rather get comfortable with an elegant UI than have to look at a zillion gizmos all at once. While I am middle aged, I suspect that a great many millennials would agree. They are the buyers that Tesla needs to be targeting.

 

[GRA]

I'm curious as to how effectively this HVAC system pushes air around the cabin. That's more important to me than whether it's controlled from the touchscreen. Adjusting the fan vents isn't something we tend to do very often.

It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own. The HVAC is a non-issue. Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense. The steering buttons can control temp etc, the user can define this. There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically. These are buttons you rarely need to touch and those that you do are on the wheel or steering yoke. In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything. The car even measures humidity and varies the mix to keep the window from fogging and it works great. I don't like Auto climate in general but on the Tesla I use it exclusively.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are agreeing that in order to avoid looking at and spending many seconds fumbling with the touchscreen, you need to put all the HVAC controls on steering wheel buttons. If you can do that, they're intuitive to use and accurate, fine (as long as it remembers your settings and you don't have to re-enter them each time you start the car). Voice commands ditto.

Your statement that "there is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically" is patently untrue. If you've got to look at the screen instead of the road to use it, then it's less safe, until we get Level 4 autonomy and Tesla assumes all liability for accidents. You further state that "these are buttons you rarely need to touch," which may be true for you, but obviously isn't for others like me. Those who like and dislike ACC seem to be about evenly split here.

As to resistance to change, please point to anyone here who is resistant to change which demonstrably improves functionality, safety and/or reliability, or else reduces cost while maintaining the same level of functionality/safety/reliability. "Resistant to change" certainly doesn't describe me, and while there are unquestionably such people, I've yet to see anyone here who dislikes touchscreen interfaces when used by drivers who'd fit that description. Our objections are based on real world issues which have caused numerous accidents, and which have been extensively researched and documented. Personally, I'm happy to accept the latest tech whenever it provides me with greater value, but I have no desire for a stupid gee-whiz gadget that serves no other purpose (for me) than to announce look at me, I'm hip! Falcon Wing Doors being Exhibit A as far as Tesla is concerned, and we'll see if this becomes exhibit B. A/P at least looks towards greater safety someday, even if the current implementation is simply not capable enough to meet my personal safety-of-life reliability criteria.

 

[SageBrush]

If these vents have a memory setting in the premium edition, that would be awesome but I'm not sure they do. I can change vents instantly while driving.

I agree that a memory setting would be nice. If this isn't part of the UI today, Tesla may well add it in the future.

I hate the modern trend of minimalism in web pages, with everything nested deep in menus so that the main screen is devoid of anything except a massive font not capable of displaying any information without a mile of scrolling.

I guess we all have our own preferences. Personally, I'm happy with the web trend toward minimalism, though I agree that requiring excessive scrolling is bad design. I feel that cluttered, "busy" web pages have a way of hiding information in plain sight. It's often faster to search many "legacy" sites using Google than to attempt navigating them directly.

On a dashboard (car, web, etc.), I'd rather get comfortable with an elegant UI than have to look at a zillion gizmos all at once. While I am middle aged, I suspect that a great many millennials would agree. They are the buyers that Tesla needs to be targeting.

Absolutely!

Scrolling long lists is bad; tap,tap,tapping is worse.
Beyond that, give me minimalism!!

Honestly, the only downside I see to the Tesla approach is consolidating so much functionality under a few points of failure. They better not have many bugs.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm curious as to how effectively this HVAC system pushes air around the cabin. That's more important to me than whether it's controlled from the touchscreen. Adjusting the fan vents isn't something we tend to do very often.

It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own. The HVAC is a non-issue. Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense. The steering buttons can control temp etc, the user can define this. There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically. These are buttons you rarely need to touch and those that you do are on the wheel or steering yoke. In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything. The car even measures humidity and varies the mix to keep the window from fogging and it works great. I don't like Auto climate in general but on the Tesla I use it exclusively.

So, if I understand you correctly, you are agreeing that in order to avoid looking at and spending many seconds fumbling with the touchscreen, you need to put all the HVAC controls on steering wheel buttons. If you can do that, they're intuitive to use and accurate, fine (as long as it remembers your settings and you don't have to re-enter them each time you start the car). Voice commands ditto.

Your statement that "there is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically" is patently untrue. If you've got to look at the screen instead of the road to use it, then it's less safe, until we get Level 4 autonomy and Tesla assumes all liability for accidents. You further state that "these are buttons you rarely need to touch," which may be true for you, but obviously isn't for others like me. Those who like and dislike ACC seem to be about evenly split here.

As to resistance to change, please point to anyone here who is resistant to change which demonstrably improves functionality, safety and/or reliability, or else reduces cost while maintaining the same level of functionality/safety/reliability. "Resistant to change" certainly doesn't describe me, and while there are unquestionably such people, I've yet to see anyone here who dislikes touchscreen interfaces when used by drivers who'd fit that description. Our objections are based on real world issues which have caused numerous accidents, and which have been extensively researched and documented. Personally, I'm happy to accept the latest tech whenever it provides me with greater value, but I have no desire for a stupid gee-whiz gadget that serves no other purpose (for me) than to announce look at me, I'm hip! Falcon Wing Doors being Exhibit A as far as Tesla is concerned, and we'll see if this becomes exhibit B. A/P at least looks towards greater safety someday, even if the current implementation is simply not capable enough to meet my personal safety-of-life reliability criteria.

The items you use on the Tesla TS are no different than any other car with a few exceptions that really don't need to be "fumbled" with while driving, I would suggest using the vehicle before you decide if it's for you. I can't stand bad ergonomics and I find the Tesla very good. If you think it's that bad from a very poor video then clearly it's not your EV. I know that this video is not a good representation. I expect that most people will find this car a much better experience than what they are used to.

 

[lorenfb]

It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own. The HVAC is a non-issue. Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense. The steering buttons can control temp etc, the user can define this. There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically. These are buttons you rarely need to touch and those that you do are on the wheel or steering yoke. In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything. The car even measures humidity and varies the mix to keep the window from fogging and it works great. I don't like Auto climate in general but on the Tesla I use it exclusively.

Let's sell/promote that Tesla 'technology' implementation even if it's meritless, right?
For those that find Tesla technology undesirable, they are an anachronism or "just not with it", right?

The essence of your attempt to refute the issue:

1. "It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own."
2. "The HVAC is a non-issue."
3. "Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. "
4. "Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense."
5. "There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically."
6. "In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything."

Lucky for you, Elon doesn't monitor this forum or he'd be disappointed!

Thought maybe you had 'insider info' on Tesla and the M3, but just another MS owner with self-infatuation.

 

[SageBrush]

As to resistance to change, please point to anyone here who is resistant to change which demonstrably improves functionality, safety and/or reliability, or else reduces cost while maintaining the same level of functionality/safety/reliability.

How would you like "demonstrably" to occur ?

Will a well powered, randomized, double blinded study of monkeys suffice ?

 

[EVDRIVER]

It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own. The HVAC is a non-issue. Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense. The steering buttons can control temp etc, the user can define this. There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically. These are buttons you rarely need to touch and those that you do are on the wheel or steering yoke. In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything. The car even measures humidity and varies the mix to keep the window from fogging and it works great. I don't like Auto climate in general but on the Tesla I use it exclusively.

Let's sell/promote that Tesla 'technology' implementation even if it's meritless, right?
For those that find Tesla technology undesirable, they are an anachronism or "just not with it", right?

The essence of your attempt to refute the issue:

1. "It does, and the 3 does a better job than other cars I own."
2. "The HVAC is a non-issue."
3. "Like so many comments on the forums they are based on non experience with the actual equipment or resistance to change. "
4. "Saying the HVAC controls are a safety issue or anything else on the TS interface is pure nonsense."
5. "There is nothing on the screen that is any less safe than another vehicle ergonomically."
6. "In fact I would argue it's easier to do everything."

Lucky for you, Elon doesn't monitor this forum or he'd be disappointed!

Thought maybe you had 'insider info' on Tesla and the M3, but just another MS owner with self-infatuation.

Insider info? I do have technical information on the cars that is not yet public and I have direct experience with a Model3, there are production cars and many engineering mules in the public now. The fact that I think many features of both the S and 3 are superior to other ICE cars I have owned is my opinion based on my experience with those vehicles but I don't have "self infatuation". In fact I have a 3 reservation and may pass on the car because there are aspects of the car I don't like at all but they are not related to the controls or interior functions. I did have these reservations prior to understanding how I would use them. There are people that see one video and assume this car is functionally less safe because the car in some way has bad ergonomics, that's a bit assumptive. Once people can test drive the cars at dealers or form other owners I'm sure they can decide, I initially thought the S was an issue until I found the buttons that were "missing" were not ones I needed to access anymore. Those that find the S technology undesirable may like the 3 less or the same but I guess they already made their mind up when they drove an S, in that case there is not big discovery here for them. That same group will probably have less desire for many new vehicle models types the future.

How do you know Elon does not monitor this forum? Is that MNL self infatuation on your part?