Official California SDG&E Thread

[SanDust]

Do you guys get the monthly statements I'm talking about? In 2009/mid-2010, I received monthly credits and still see the same credits on the same statements. In other words, there's no mystery about what I'm being paid under AB920 since SDG&E was already paying me. (I'm pretty sure I recall that some utilities refused to pay at all which is why AB920 came into existence..but for SDG&E customers, it just meant that it could be trued up annually with monthly breakouts vs. monthly). Maybe I should just go read AB920

I think you're misinterpreting the bill. SDG&E never paid for the excess generation. It was just lost each year. Under AB920 they have to pay, but the amount they're suggesting is around $.08/kWh.

The amount you're seeing on your monthly bill is a dollar credit. SDG&E does it by dollars in case you have a month where you use so much that you're paying Tier 2 or higher prices. But at the end of the year, if you have a credit, that credit won't get transformed into a dollar payment.

Two points. One is that because the Tier 1 rate consists of an energy charge plus a distribution and transmission charge, the first SWAG would be that the rate you were paid for the generation would be less than you get charged for generation + distribution + transmission. Two is that because the rate you get for super off-peak EV charging is the lowest rate you'll probably ever see, Groundloop's advice that it's advantageous to take the second meter will almost certainly always be correct.

 

[sdbonez]

I think you're misinterpreting the bill. SDG&E never paid for the excess generation. It was just lost each year. Under AB920 they have to pay, but the amount they're suggesting is around $.08/kWh.

The amount you're seeing on your monthly bill is a dollar credit. SDG&E does it by dollars in case you have a month where you use so much that you're paying Tier 2 or higher prices. But at the end of the year, if you have a credit, that credit won't get transformed into a dollar payment.

Two points. One is that because the Tier 1 rate consists of an energy charge plus a distribution and transmission charge, the first SWAG would be that the rate you were paid for the generation would be less than you get charged for generation + distribution + transmission. Two is that because the rate you get for super off-peak EV charging is the lowest rate you'll probably ever see, Groundloop's advice that it's advantageous to take the second meter will almost certainly always be correct.

I went back and looked at my bills... I was incorrect about it being applied monthly, but looking at my May 2010 bill (month of my annual true up), the negative figure on my net metering statement from the previous year's worth of surplus was applied as an "Applied Generation Credit" to my May 2010 bill...and the figure was equal to the (DWR Bond Date Charge + Electric Energy Charge + the Tier 1 baseline rate) x the # of kwh hours of surplus over the previous year (broken out monthly). I expect the current negative figure on my net metering statement will also be applied to this May's bill.

Ahh..just figured it out going back to my original SDG&E Net Metering FAQ sheet. The key is that I don't generate more surplus than electricity I pay for each year. Remember, I often run into Tier 1 and sometimes Tier 2 territory today. For the last annual true up, I had more in surplus credit than I had in billed electricity which is why I got the credit. It says specifically that if I had more surplus than I was billed for, I would have lost it.

 

[sdbonez]

I got a call from SDG&E today to talk about and confirm that I want the EV meter (followed by an email w/subject "Plug-In Electric Vehicle Time-of-Use Pricing Study"). Hopefully this means that things are moving along for me!

Anyone else get a call from them recently?

Right, see above in this thread where jcesare got a call and email. We also got call and snail mail (they don't have my email address?!?!).

April is getting close. My 9 year old hope we get the Leaf on his 10th birthday, April 26th. That would be nice, but I hope we get it sooner.

I got my call last Monday...9 days later, Carwings opened...

 

[supernoman]

Does anyone know where / how I file to convert from DR to EV-TOU(2)? As stated before, I'm in a condo unit and installing a second meter is quite challenging. The SDGE project coordinator for the second meter install mentioned that I need to apply for TOU from DR. Any info appreciated.

Thanks.

Edit - Found it. I guess I need to own the vehicle first.

 

[jcesare]

Just received this email from SDG&E:


Congratulations! Charging your electric vehicle using a separate meter enables you to monitor what it cost you to “fuel” your car. Below is the rate information showing your electricity costs. These rates may change periodically as our cost for providing electricity fluctuates.

As you can see, charging your vehicle during Super Off-Peak and Off-Peak hours will reduce your overall cost of electricity. Charging On-Peak will result in a higher bill.

Electric Vehicle Time-Of-Use Rate
dollars per kilowatt/hour*
Summer (May 1 to October 31)
On-Peak Noon-8PM $0.27027
Off-Peak All Other Hours $0.16480
Super Off-Peak Midnight-5AM $0.13860

Winter (November 1 to April 30)
On-Peak Noon-8PM $0.17681
Off-Peak All Other Hours $0.17001
Super Off-Peak Midnight-5AM $0.14259

*Effective January 1, 2011. Subject to a minimum daily bill amount of $0.17
Our electric vehicle time-of-use rates are designed to encourage you to charge during Super Off-Peak hours when demand for electricity is lowest. By charging your vehicle Super Off-Peak, you help with the availability of electricity during the day when demand is the highest.

If you have any questions regarding rates, the study, or how to save money, please email us at [email protected] or call us at 858-654-1268.

 

[wsbca]

hmmm...you're in the EV project, and those look almost exactly like the "Low" spread experimental rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/word_pdf/AGENDA_RESOLUTION/119477.pdf (page 9)

I thought it had been pretty well established in statements from SDG&E to various project participants that the Low spread had been dropped from the study, leaving only medium and high (7.6c and 6.7c for super off peak)....the low rate isn't any better than regular schedule DR tier 1 (of course with a car and house all on DR, you're pretty likely to exceed tier 1). Maybe that wasn't true.

 

[jcesare]

hmmm...you're in the EV project, and those look almost exactly like the "Low" spread experimental rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/word_pdf/AGENDA ... 119477.pdf (page 9)

I thought it had been pretty well established in statements from SDG&E to various project participants that the Low spread had been dropped from the study, leaving only medium and high (7.6c and 6.7c for super off peak)....the low rate isn't any better than regular schedule DR tier 1 (of course with a car and house all on DR, you're pretty likely to exceed tier 1). Maybe that wasn't true.

Your link is broken

BTW I already exceed Tier 1.

 

[wsbca]

hmmm...you're in the EV project, and those look almost exactly like the "Low" spread experimental rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/word_pdf/AGENDA_RESOLUTION/119477.pdf (page 9)

I thought it had been pretty well established in statements from SDG&E to various project participants that the Low spread had been dropped from the study, leaving only medium and high (7.6c and 6.7c for super off peak)....the low rate isn't any better than regular schedule DR tier 1 (of course with a car and house all on DR, you're pretty likely to exceed tier 1). Maybe that wasn't true.

Your link is broken

BTW I already exceed Tier 1.

Sorry - fixed the link, above and in this quoted followup.

 

[sdbonez]

as I noted earlier, I thought the low rate was still in the game as I *thought* I had seen a much more excessive rate than this previously (that was supposedly dropped). Guess it doesn't matter at this point - we know there are three rate tiers being given.

It further doesn't matter to be because I still don't have a live EVSE..so I'm on DR in Tier 2 territory right now already charging Level 1 off of 110v. Couldn't run an errand at lunch today to drop off my $5k refund paperwork at CCSE as I wouldn't have had enough juice to get home

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Oh wow.

No, you should not have received the "-L" plan. That one was supposed to be excluded from the experiment.

 

[jcesare]

Oh wow.

No, you should not have received the "-L" plan. That one was supposed to be excluded from the experiment.

Who should I contact about this?

 

[sdbonez]

Who should I contact about this?

Believe the official contact info is [email protected] or 858-654-1268.

 

[jcesare]

hmmm...you're in the EV project, and those look almost exactly like the "Low" spread experimental rates:

http://docs.cpuc.ca.gov/word_pdf/AGENDA_RESOLUTION/119477.pdf (page 9)

I thought it had been pretty well established in statements from SDG&E to various project participants that the Low spread had been dropped from the study, leaving only medium and high (7.6c and 6.7c for super off peak)....the low rate isn't any better than regular schedule DR tier 1 (of course with a car and house all on DR, you're pretty likely to exceed tier 1). Maybe that wasn't true.

I just got off the phone with SDG&E and spoke to the person sending out the rate emails. The L (low) rate is being issued. I was informed that there was some discussion a while back about not using it but as of now it is being assigned.

 

[SanDust]

I just got off the phone with SDG&E and spoke to the person sending out the rate emails. The L (low) rate is being issued. I was informed that there was some discussion a while back about not using it but as of now it is being assigned.

Yeah, everyone I know has gotten the "Low" rate, now called I think the "X" rate. Reports of its demise seem to have been greatly exaggerated. It's definitely alive and kicking. Randomly assigned maybe not but definitely alive and being assigned.

Most people are unhappy getting the "X" rate but it strikes me that's it not such a bad deal. Thinking that you can always charge between midnight and five may be overly optimistic. Not only will you want to charge between trips, especially on the weekends, but you may not always be able to fully charge in just a five hour period. My guess is that a lot of charging will occur at off-peak, and these rates don't differ than much between plans. And if you end up charging at peak then for a good part of the year the "X" rate is way better than the other two rates. Given how little it takes to charge the Leaf I'm not sure that it matters that much which plan you end up on.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

Correct -- after getting direct word from the SG&E primaries that the Low-spread (1:2) was being dropped to improve participation, not true!

"To serve you better" the rates have been renamed so as not to give away their suckfullness, now called:
EPEV-X (-L)
EPEV-Y (-M)
EPEV-Z (-H)
http://www.sdge.com/regulatory/elec_residential.shtml

Wouldn't you know it -- got the "X", that's the one they hit me with! Dammit.

SanDust --- it absolutely is a suck deal. I can totally charge in 5 hours every night. Even if I had to charge on-peak, L1 on my house meter will always be cheaper anyway.

In a nutshell, SDG&E has ensured that "One out of three EV drivers, chosen at random, will pay twice as much to charge their car" For TWO YEARS.

"GroundLoop, what do you spend to charge that thing?"
"Oh, it costs me about three bucks, but most people pay just a buck fifty."
"Why's that?
"It's complicated... SDG&E shafts one third of their program participants into paying double. I got screwed."
"Can you quit?"
"Nope."


I'll call them on Monday with 'fix this or keep your stupid second meter'.

 

[SanDust]

GroundLoop, do you have your car? Just curious. In my admittedly limited experience charging the Leaf from a 120V line is painful and, consequently, switching to a home 120V line is not a great option, unless of course you have an extra 240V charger on the line (but that could be expensive).

My point is that as a participant in the study you get a free charger and a free install and a free meter. Not to mention the $5000 CA rebate. Just the EV Study stuff is worth maybe $1500 and you're protected from the adding the power you use for charging to your home usage which can push you into higher rates. Even when the study is completed you'll probably be able to keep the meter and move to some other EV charging rate. Even assuming that on the X rate plan you'll pay $.08 more per kWh, that would probably not amount to more than $25/month. My guess is that in practice it will be less. This isn't that much money, which is why I'm saying it's not a big deal, especially given all the other goodies you're getting. Personally there is some value in a rate plan where the difference between peak and off peak is so slight that you just come home and plug the car in and not worry about it.

I question, however, whether SDGE is randomly assigning these rates. Did anyone for the first couple of months get any rate but the old "H" rate? And has anyone in the last few weeks gotten any rate other than the "X" rate. To be valid you really need to randomly assign these rates and I have doubts if SDGE has actually done that.

 

[ttweed]

In a nutshell, SDG&E has ensured that "One out of three EV drivers, chosen at random, will pay twice as much to charge their car" For TWO YEARS.

The way the EVP agreement read when I signed it was that you must remain on the assigned random rate for only ONE year, then you may choose to be assigned a different rate for the second year. Your pain may be only 1/2 what you think. Check it out.

TT

 

[SanDust]

The way the EVP agreement read when I signed it was that you must remain on the assigned random rate for only ONE year, then you may choose to be assigned a different rate for the second year. Your pain may be only 1/2 what you think. Check it out.

You mean to say that somebody actually read the agreement before agreeing? LOL

Good point. I see where you're coming from. However, my interpretation is that when the contract says that after a year you can move to "another applicable rate schedule" it means a rate other than the experimental rate schedules. Though in truth it would be a super idea to move people to a different rate halfway through the study. That would give you better information about how different rates effect charging behavior.

The good thing is that if you've been assigned to the "X" or "L" rate plan you have the freedom to plug in anytime without worrying about the cost differential. Not a big enough difference between peak and off-peak to worry about and life will be much simpler. I think people are paying too much attention to the percentages. A rate of $.14 might be double a $.07 rate, but since the operating costs with either rate are so low the "much better" rate won't save you that many total dollars. (Same principle that as your MPG starts hitting 100 you don't save much by going to 200 -- you're just not using that much gas at 100 MPG so there's not much to save).

 

[ttweed]

...my interpretation is that when the contract says that after a year you can move to "another applicable rate schedule" it means a rate other than the experimental rate schedules.

What other rate schedules would be "applicable" while you are participating in the study?

TT

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

GroundLoop, do you have your car?

Nope, not yet. May 6 estimated.

My point is that as a participant in the study you get a free charger and a free install and a free meter. Not to mention the $5000 CA rebate. Just the EV Study stuff is worth maybe $1500 and you're protected from the adding the power you use for charging to your home usage which can push you into higher rates. Even when the study is completed you'll probably be able to keep the meter and move to some other EV charging rate. Even assuming that on the X rate plan you'll pay $.08 more per kWh, that would probably not amount to more than $25/month.

All true. However, you don't have to accept the SDG&E second meter to get the goodies you're talking about. You still get the free EVSE and install just by being EV Project!

The SDG&E second meter has to be attractive for its own reasons -- namely, costing less to charge.
With the Low-Spread plan, you pay the very-high TOU-2 rates, which are very expensive in the day, and the same price as baseline DR at night. That's hardly worth participating.

The good news is that new participants, like myself, get a letter in the mail disclosing the assigned "random" rate before it's too late to cancel. So I can drop out, keep my EV Project status and pay whatever rates my house is on.
Once they figure out that their study participation is skewed, because only the -H and -M people followed through and participated, they might reconsider.