Nissan To Install 500 More Quick Charge Stations

[GRA]

I want to suggest the Leaf community to write to Nissan USA and persuade them NOT to install the new L3QC chargers at Nissan Dealers. Instead, install them at Highway and Interstate rest stops, free-public parking lots, municipal parking lots and other places close to highways and interstates where people can have access to these chargers 24/7. This will allow longer trips, even intercity trips in the Leaf and other future Nissan EVs such as the eNV200 minivan. Please write to Nissan and tell them about your experiences with charging at Nissan Dealerships. My experience has not been great. out of the five Nissan dealers(Bruce Bennett Nissan-CT, Rockland Nissan-NY, Nissan World of Denville-NJ, and Hilltop Nissan-NJ) I visited for charging in three states(CT, NY, and NJ), four had the charging spots deliberately blocked by the dealer's staff with parked cars, that too with mostly Non-EVs. This severely discourages Leaf owners from depending on charging at the L2 charging network at Nissan dealerships across United States. Yes, there are a few rare Nissan Dealers like the Rockland Nissan in New York which do not block charging spots and allow charging Leafs and EVs. Rockland Nissan also promotes and sells Leafs. They have a Nissan Lead kiosk in their showroom, something that I didn't see in any other Nissan Dealership out the of the five I visited. However, most Nissan Dealers don't promote, sell, or support Nissan Leafs. So it is important for us as a Leaf community to contact Nissan and prevent them from making the same mistake with the new L3 chargers.

Unfortunately, Nissan made it very clear, when many of us made exactly the same location suggestions you recommend, and pointed out the problems, that they weren't interested in our opinions. The very clear attitude they gave off was that they knew best, so shut up and smile.

 

[planet4ever]

I want to suggest the Leaf community to write to Nissan USA and persuade them NOT to install the new L3QC chargers at Nissan Dealers. Instead, install them at Highway and Interstate rest stops, free-public parking lots, municipal parking lots and other places close to highways and interstates where people can have access to these chargers 24/7.

Unfortunately, Nissan made it very clear, when many of us made exactly the same location suggestions you recommend, and pointed out the problems, that they weren't interested in our opinions. The very clear attitude they gave off was that they knew best, so shut up and smile.

That reply expresses far more negativity against Nissan than I feel is called for in this case. While I certainly understand EVerlasting's desire to have QCs in the locations he suggests, I can also understand Nissan's reluctance to install them in such places.

• These are very expensive machines, and would be far more prone to vandalism in a public location than on a dealer's lot.
• They use a great deal of power while charging a car, and Nissan would presumably have to set up separate utility accounts for each of them. Some utilities have demand charges which would make the power required very expensive.
• All maintenance and power costs for the life of the charger would have to be borne by Nissan NA (or the users), rather than by individual dealerships.
• For the above reasons, Nissan would almost certainly charge for the power. (Free QC today is a temporary boot-strapping strategy made possible by federal funding.) I suspect that responsible estimates of the true cost of QC charging would run $1/kWh or more. Based on response by members of this board, that is so high that utilization would be very low.

Bottom line: The only financially feasible model for QC stations seems to be with business sponsorship, where the businesses are hoping the stations will bring in additional customers. Nissan can make that argument for chargers on a dealer's property, but not for ones in the locations you are hoping for.

Ray

 

[EVerlasting]

I want to suggest the Leaf community to write to Nissan USA and persuade them NOT to install the new L3QC chargers at Nissan Dealers. Instead, install them at Highway and Interstate rest stops, free-public parking lots, municipal parking lots and other places close to highways and interstates where people can have access to these chargers 24/7.

Unfortunately, Nissan made it very clear, when many of us made exactly the same location suggestions you recommend, and pointed out the problems, that they weren't interested in our opinions. The very clear attitude they gave off was that they knew best, so shut up and smile.

That reply expresses far more negativity against Nissan than I feel is called for in this case. While I certainly understand EVerlasting's desire to have QCs in the locations he suggests, I can also understand Nissan's reluctance to install them in such places.

• These are very expensive machines, and would be far more prone to vandalism in a public location than on a dealer's lot.
• They use a great deal of power while charging a car, and Nissan would presumably have to set up separate utility accounts for each of them. Some utilities have demand charges which would make the power required very expensive.
• All maintenance and power costs for the life of the charger would have to be borne by Nissan NA (or the users), rather than by individual dealerships.
• For the above reasons, Nissan would almost certainly charge for the power. (Free QC today is a temporary boot-strapping strategy made possible by federal funding.) I suspect that responsible estimates of the true cost of QC charging would run $1/kWh or more. Based on response by members of this board, that is so high that utilization would be very low.

Bottom line: The only financially feasible model for QC stations seems to be with business sponsorship, where the businesses are hoping the stations will bring in additional customers. Nissan can make that argument for chargers on a dealer's property, but not for ones in the locations you are hoping for.

Ray

If Nissan Dealerships are the only places that are feasible for them to install QC stations, then Nissan needs to at least make an arrangement with the dealerships to stop blocking their charging spots to allow Leafs and future Nissan EVs to recharge there. This will not happen until Nissan is properly informed about this problem through us.

I have a feeling that Carlos Ghosn (CEO of Nissan and proponent of EVs) has no idea what is really going on in most Nissan Dealership's charging spots in America. Remember he is mostly in Japan at Nissan's headquarters. If we all as a Leaf community bombard Nissan with letters and emails about our negative experiences about charging in Nissan dealerships, eventually this news will reach Carlos's ears and he will do something about it.

Nissan needs to come up with a list of EV-Friendly Dealerships (such as, in my experience, Rockland Nissan-NY and Route 46 Nissan-NJ) and then only install these chargers there instead of wasting resources at EV-Unfriendly dealerships where these chargers will be inaccessible to Leaf owners.

We can start by writing to Nissan here: http://www.nissanusa.com/apps/contactus?next=footer.contact.link

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Frankly, any QC, anywhere near me, will be better than the none we have now. Sure they're expensive, but given Nissan's level of investment in EV's already, I would have thought that infrastructure investment would go hand in hand, even if only at dealerships.

A quick google shows 27 dealers within a 50 mile radius of me (central MA), in every direction, all already located on or near major routes. With a QC at just a few of those I could double my drive radius, easily incorporating the short layover to charge.

24/7 access is imperative, and I'll write them to emphasize that, but any access is better than 0/0.

Why couldn't Nissan partner with coffee or fast food chains near highway exits? They might have better luck than with dealers.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Maybe Nissan should take Tesla's lead and install solar at each dealership. Finance the dealership's solar with great terms and use it to leverage against any demand fees that might come up. It is more than disconcerting that a large established company cannot do what a relatively new company can.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Maybe Nissan should take Tesla's lead and install solar at each dealership. Finance the dealership's solar with great terms and use it to leverage against any demand fees that might come up. It is more than disconcerting that a large established company cannot do what a relatively new company can.

Sorry, but that just won't work. Demand fees are for 15 minutes increments of power, and solar slowly provides power over hours at nothing even close to what a DC charger can pull.

Well, unless you overbuild the solar so big that it overproduces by 100's of percent to cover the intermittent 15 minute high power usage demand fees.

 

[GRA]

Maybe Nissan should take Tesla's lead and install solar at each dealership. Finance the dealership's solar with great terms and use it to leverage against any demand fees that might come up. It is more than disconcerting that a large established company cannot do what a relatively new company can.

Sorry, but that just won't work. Demand fees are for 15 minutes increments of power, and solar slowly provides power over hours at nothing even close to what a DC charger can pull.

Well, unless you overbuild the solar so big that it overproduces by 100's of percent to cover the intermittent 15 minute high power usage demand fees.

Or (the approach which Tesla will eventually use) you provide battery storage so that the PV can charge the batteries during the week, and then the batteries provide the high charging current on the weekends. That depends on the batteries and PV being cheaper than the alternative.

 

[KJD]

Now that Nissan is about 7 months into this project, how many of these 500 stations are up and running ?

 

[GRA]

Now that Nissan is about 7 months into this project, how many of these 500 stations are up and running ?

Who knows? There were apparently 24 in the demonstration phase. Nissan thinks it's best to keep it all a big _seekrut_ from their customers, the people who'd use them and would like to offer comments as to the best and worst places to put them. Nissan (actually OE IIRR) made it clear months ago, in this thread or another, that they weren't going to announce where they were thinking about putting the chargers, i.e. suggestions not wanted. That way they have plausible deniability when things don't go as quickly as planned, or a dealer refuses to install a charger at all. Just another example of Nissan's general attitude to customer communication and input. Compare with Tesla and decide which you prefer.

 

[Valdemar]

Compare with Tesla and decide which you prefer.

Careful here, the range of preferences is directly proportional to the depth of one's pocket. It is more of a case of getting what you pay for.

 

[GRA]

Compare with Tesla and decide which you prefer.

Careful here, the range of preferences is directly proportional to the depth of one's pocket. It is more of a case of getting what you pay for.

I was suggesting that people compare the two companies' communications and attitude towards customer input. Business ethics such as openness and honesty aren't dependent on the price of an item.

 

[TomT]

+1!

I was suggesting that people compare the two companies' communications and attitude towards customer input. Business ethics such as openness and honesty aren't dependent on the price of an item.

 

[EVerlasting]

This is probably good news for those of you that aren't on the west coast and have very few CHAdeMO options!

Some of us ON the west coast have very few CHAdeMO options!

Very few on the West Coast? You guys can drive up and down the entire West Coast Highway from California to WA and even Canada using CHAdeMO. At least you guys have "few". We here on East Coast have none. Zero! Except two(2) in NYC for Leaf Taxis.

 

[EVerlasting]

Now that Nissan is about 7 months into this project, how many of these 500 stations are up and running ?

Who knows? There were apparently 24 in the demonstration phase. Nissan thinks it's best to keep it all a big _seekrut_ from their customers, the people who'd use them and would like to offer comments as to the best and worst places to put them. Nissan (actually OE IIRR) made it clear months ago, in this thread or another, that they weren't going to announce where they were thinking about putting the chargers, i.e. suggestions not wanted. That way they have plausible deniability when things don't go as quickly as planned, or a dealer refuses to install a charger at all. Just another example of Nissan's general attitude to customer communication and input. Compare with Tesla and decide which you prefer.

Oh thank you Tesla for screwing the entire EV community by using plugs that don't fit any other EV except Tesla. Enjoy your exclusive supercharger network for the occasional visit by millionaire owner.

 

[jrreno]

At least you guys have "few". We here on East Coast have none. Zero! Except two(2) in NYC for Leaf Taxis.

The state of Tennessee is loaded with them at every Cracker Barrel ( can't imagine why?) along the interstate. There is also ONE in Ocala Florida at a new Nissan dealership.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I think CA should be QC'd first, it's fair, if not for the laws of CA, none of us would get to drive EV's at all, it'd still be a "great idea" that never happened. OR and WA are just riding CA's coattails.

Or, maybe the East coast just sucks.

And probably there's a lot of delay based on the CHAdeMO vs Frankenplug issue. Nobody wants a stranded asset.

Tesla could be nicer and share, even collect revenue, but maybe they'll change when they roll out the Gen3.

Crackerbarrel wants you to stay a while, hopefully other chains will join in.

 

[EVerlasting]

I think CA should be QC'd first, it's fair, if not for the laws of CA, none of us would get to drive EV's at all, it'd still be a "great idea" that never happened. OR and WA are just riding CA's coattails.

Or, maybe the East coast just sucks.

And probably there's a lot of delay based on the CHAdeMO vs Frankenplug issue. Nobody wants a stranded asset.

Tesla could be nicer and share, even collect revenue, but maybe they'll change when they roll out the Gen3.

Crackerbarrel wants you to stay a while, hopefully other chains will join in.

No one state or region should get them first. (Although the West coast already did.) That's like saying, Washing DC should get bridge repairs first because that's where our leaders worked hard to pass stimulus programs. These chargers should be spread out evenly among all states and proportional to existing chargers. As more and more get installed, the network grows and no region or state is left behind. CA already has em. We here in the East coast don't even know what it looks like. Not that Nissan is listening to us from what I read.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And probably there's a lot of delay based on the CHAdeMO vs Frankenplug issue. Nobody wants a stranded asset.

EXACTLY... the Frankenplug causes uncertainty, and therefore slows down CHAdeMO ('cuz, let's face it, Frankenplug is still 0/0/0).

The GM folks are laughing their asses off as to how easy that was to accomplish!!!

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I think CA should be QC'd first, it's fair, if not for the laws of CA, none of us would get to drive EV's at all, it'd still be a "great idea" that never happened. OR and WA are just riding CA's coattails.

Or, maybe the East coast just sucks.

And probably there's a lot of delay based on the CHAdeMO vs Frankenplug issue. Nobody wants a stranded asset.

Tesla could be nicer and share, even collect revenue, but maybe they'll change when they roll out the Gen3.

Crackerbarrel wants you to stay a while, hopefully other chains will join in.

No one state or region should get them first. (Although the West coast already did.) That's like saying, Washing DC should get bridge repairs first because that's where our leaders worked hard to pass stimulus programs. These chargers should be spread out evenly among all states and proportional to existing chargers. As more and more get installed, the network grows and no region or state is left behind. CA already has em. We here in the East coast don't even know what it looks like. Not that Nissan is listening to us from what I read.

CA does have more, and first, and I don't begrudge them that. Thank you CA, for changing the world.

It would be nice if that change spread faster, so let's continue to do what we can to help that along.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

And probably there's a lot of delay based on the CHAdeMO vs Frankenplug issue. Nobody wants a stranded asset.

EXACTLY... the Frankenplug causes uncertainty, and therefore slows down CHAdeMO ('cuz, let's face it, Frankenplug is still 0/0/0).

The GM folks are laughing their asses off as to how easy that was to accomplish!!!

And yet, Nissan could shut GM up if only they'd protect and enhance their own enormous investment in EVs by concurrently investing in CHAdeMO on a larger scale. Call it Nissan's proprietary charging system.

If they built it, sales would come.

Why would I buy a Frankenplug car if there was a cool CHAdeMO network to drive on?

But they didn't.

And now? Too little too late?