Nissan Reaches Settlement in Defective LEAF Battery Class Ac

[Luft]

... I think people should be compensated for their efforts, and in fact should be handsomely compensated for obtaining a good outcome.

Maybe I'm off base here. I'm all ears.

Look at it from the POV of a hot weather LEAF owner, the outcome is a warranty they didn't have before, and a new battery if they need it. Pretty good outcome, I'd say. Now, some people here may think that the suit wasn't the catalyst for the warranty (and that MNL was)...it's really hard to tell without inside info from Nissan.

The warrenty doesn't give you a new battery. If your capacity goes below 9 bars Nissan will do what it takes to bring you back to 9 bars. This is a far cry from a fresh battery pack.

 

[Luft]

Some of you mention a "replacement" battery, but generally
it is just a "fix" of your battery, replacing a few of the lowest
modules.

Gary, while that might work for some LEAFs, most of the packs look pretty evenly degraded. Replacing a few disproportionally impacted modules, if they were present, is not likely have much of a benefit. Perhaps that's the model Nissan planned to pursue originally, but I would be surprised if this approach was viable in any of the known warranty replacement cases.

That's an interesting point. If all of the modules are degraded would replacing a few modules bring the capacity back up to 9 bars long enough for the warranty to expire? Like any corporation, you can bet that Nissan will act in their own best interest. i.e It might not be the right way to correct the problem from a technical point of view but it just may be the cheapest way to honor the new warranty.

 

[mwalsh]

The warrenty doesn't give you a new battery. If your capacity goes below 9 bars Nissan will do what it takes to bring you back to 9 bars. This is a far cry from a fresh battery pack.

The actual terminology is AT LEAST 9 bars. So some may do better than others, getting 10 bars, 11 bars, maybe even 12 bars. Too soon yet to see how exactly it will go down for most.

 

[surfingslovak]

That's an interesting point. If all of the modules are degraded would replacing a few modules bring the capacity back up to 9 bars long enough for the warranty to expire? Like any corporation, you can bet that Nissan will act in their own best interest. i.e It might not be the right way to correct the problem from a technical point of view but it just may be the cheapest way to honor the new warranty.

I think the benefit of swapping a few modules in a substantially degraded pack is doubtful and unproven. Before we can be sure that it's possible, I don't think it's worth worrying that Nissan might attempt it. Other things have been suggested before, such as resetting the battery capacity gauge so that it never falls below 9 bars. Personally, I think the chance of any of these scenarios is low.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

They also have labor to consider. A car drops from 9 bars to 8, they bring it back up to 9 and a couple monthes later it drops to 8 again. I doubt they want to be dropping the pack on the same car a dozen times under the warranty. Come to think of it would they be getting into lemon law territory after about the third time?

 

[Vuman]

Guys and Tim Lee,

After some thoughts and reflections on others' comments on this board, I've come to believe this Class Action Lawsuit is bull**** for everyone including and especially Leaf owners in hot climate. I have changed my mind and will opt-out of this lawsuit.

Reasons:
1. There is no guarantee that they will do a full battery swap and can/may just replace some modules to get it up over 9 bars.
2. Even if they do a full battery swap, I'm still stuck with a new defective battery that will again rapidly degrade in the heat. My 2012 Leaf has already lost 2 bars in 9 months at 14,000 miles.
3. This lawsuit does not guarantee that I can get the more "heat-resistant" battery that Nissan is working on.
4. This lawsuit can limit any further recourse that I can have against Nissan in regards to the battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

now that there is user reports of battery warranty swaps let us provide examples of ones who DID NOT receive a replacement battery that had 12 bar capacity before accusing Nissan of doing the wrong thing here.

 

[Vuman]

now that there is user reports of battery warranty swaps let us provide examples of ones who DID NOT receive a replacement battery that had 12 bar capacity before accusing Nissan of doing the wrong thing here.

Dave,

Nissan with this lawsuit settlement are not guarranteeing a battery swap, that there is one problem. They could have stated in the settlement that they will do a new battery swap. However, even with a new battery swap, people in hot climates are still stuck with a "new" battery that will quickly degrade in the heat just as fast as our first battery.

I'm not accusing Nissan of any thing here. This lawsuit settlement is great for them. The problem is with the plaintiffs and their lawyers who agreed to this not well-thought out settlement that does not help many Leaf owners limiting their options in the future. Personally, I think this lawsuit actually detrimental to people it was supposed to help the most, owners in hot climates, because it will limit Nissan's obligation to find a proper fix to the heat degradation problem.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

now that there is user reports of battery warranty swaps let us provide examples of ones who DID NOT receive a replacement battery that had 12 bar capacity before accusing Nissan of doing the wrong thing here.

Dave,

Nissan with this lawsuit settlement are not guarranteeing a battery swap, that there is one problem. They could have stated in the settlement that they will do a new battery swap. However, even with a new battery swap, people in hot climates are still stuck with a "new" battery that will quickly degrade in the heat just as fast as our first battery.

for now...but guessing you havent read about their latest battery developments?

 

[Vuman]

now that there is user reports of battery warranty swaps let us provide examples of ones who DID NOT receive a replacement battery that had 12 bar capacity before accusing Nissan of doing the wrong thing here.

Dave,

Nissan with this lawsuit settlement are not guarranteeing a battery swap, that there is one problem. They could have stated in the settlement that they will do a new battery swap. However, even with a new battery swap, people in hot climates are still stuck with a "new" battery that will quickly degrade in the heat just as fast as our first battery.

for now...but guessing you havent read about their latest battery developments?

Sorry, Dave. I was amending my previous post right as you replied to my message. Please see my previous post. I do know of the "heat resistant" batteries they are working on and hopefully will be ready in mid to late 2014. But it is not guarranteed in the settlement is it? That there is the problem. Again, the problem is not with entirely with Nissan, its with the Class Action plaintiffs who agreed to this without fully thinking of its ramifications.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Sorry, Dave. I was amending my previous post right as you replied to my message. Please see my previous post. I do know of the "heat resistant" batteries they are working on and hopefully will be ready in mid to late 2014. But it is not guarranteed in the settlement is it? That there is the problem. Again, the problem is not with entirely with Nissan, its with the Class Action plaintiffs who agreed to this without fully thinking of its ramifications.

ok; there are no guarantees in life, we all know that. But Nissan as a company has to weigh what they say publicly with the ramifications of that statement.

they have already stated publicly, they have a more heat tolerant battery (how good this will be?? no one knows so debating "that" point is useless) that will be ready soon. for those who cannot wait that long; they will receive a voucher for that new chemistry battery (although I have yet to hear about someone who has said voucher but since the batteries are not here yet, whats the rush?) so potentially, a hot weather LEAF could receive 2 12 bar batteries.

as far as ramifications; i am not following you. there seems to be very little here. pretty straightforward i think. no car lasts forever so a warranty for such a thing is a bit of a stretch. How this warranty came about is not really a concern of mine. I think you will find that all current warranties for any type of car pretty much came about the same way...lawsuits. So when you read about Ford's 100,000 mile diesel engine warranty (or maybe its 150,000) be assured its due to someone else's pain and not Ford's generosity.

now; have i heard of $15,000 repairs for trucks that broke down right after the warranty? oh ya! several (used to work in car business) and in all but a handful of cases; the manufacturer was willing to take on part of the cost (up to 80% in a few cases!) so ya; warranties are in very specific shades of black and white but the exercise of the warranty frequently is not.

granted this is speculation and the comfort level of speculation for me is just as low as I am sure it is for you.

 

[Vuman]

Dave, here is a ramification for you if you don't opt-out of the settlement: This settlement will not affect most Leaf owners in cool climates like yourself who probably will not hit 8 bars in 60,000 miles or 5 years. However, will may absolve Nissan from any further liabilities if other "issues or problems with the battery" that may come up later that they can claim that "it is a degradation issue and falls under the Class Action Settlement".

Please tell me why you would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Dave, here is a ramification for you if you don't opt-out of the settlement: This settlement will not affect most Leaf owners in cool climates like yourself who probably will not hit 8 bars in 60,000 miles or 5 years. However, will may absolve Nissan from any further liabilities if other "issues or problems with the battery" that may come up later that they can claim that "it is a degradation issue and falls under the Class Action Settlement".

Please tell me why you would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit?

you are right in that it does not affect me. its simply too little. 70% is a degradation level i cannot live with so I leased. I will probably see about 20% degradation after 3 years and 45,000+ miles (ya, i will go over!) and that is too much.

but you honestly think Nissan can use this settlement as an excuse to cover some other battery pack issue? not going to happen. we just file another lawsuit. that is how our society works. Nissan and others settle lawsuits to get the issue off the frontpage...

 

[TimLee]

Please tell me why you would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit?

+1000
I'm having a hard time finding any solid reason why hardly anyone would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit.
Please share with all of us the justification for why anyone should stay in the Class. :? :? :? :?
But I do agree with Dave that the chance of Nissan doing limited short term battery fixes is mostly a down the road, 1 1/2 years down the road, type of thing.
For the people in hot climates with failed batteries at 24 to 30 months there is no reasonable warranty fix other than a new battery, and a real fix that is useful for at least 4 or 5 years will only be with the new "Hot" battery chemistry, so they need the certificate.
But Nissan's recent Phoenix meeting was pretty limited on what they were going to do with regards to "Hot" battery certificates.
Understanding what Nissan is saying is becoming a lot like understanding what a police interviewer is offering you after spending 36 hours in a small interrogation room under the 300 W light bulb.

 

[oscar]

Please tell me why you would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit?

+1000
I'm having a hard time finding any solid reason why hardly anyone would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit.
Please share with all of us the justification for why anyone should stay in the Class. :? :? :? :?
But I do agree with Dave that the chance of Nissan doing limited short term battery fixes is mostly a down the road, 1 1/2 years down the road, type of thing.
For the people in hot climates with failed batteries at 24 to 30 months there is no reasonable warranty fix other than a new battery, and a real fix that is useful for at least 4 or 5 years will only be with the new "Hot" battery chemistry, so they need the certificate.
But Nissan's recent Phoenix meeting was pretty limited on what they were going to do with regards to "Hot" battery certificates.
Understanding what Nissan is saying is becoming a lot like understanding what a police interviewer is offering you after spending 36 hours in a small interrogation room under the 300 W light bulb.

I’m opting out of this lawsuit!!!
I’m still cover under the warranty by Nissan, so tell me why staying in this lawsuit benefit anyone?

Once opting out, I can always sue later to get the same deal or better lawsuit on related battery issue and mileage degradation that I was promise the mileages driven!

Anyway I’m suing later with another lawsuit group for 2011/2012 or 2013/2014 Leaf owner. This deal suck and scam at best, restore your battery pack to 9 Bar’s….sucker deal!

 

[KillaWhat]

I’m opting out of this lawsuit!!!
I’m still cover under the warranty by Nissan, so tell me why staying in this lawsuit benefit anyone?

Once opting out, I can always sue later to get the same deal or better lawsuit on related battery issue and mileage degradation that I was promise the mileages driven!

Anyway I’m suing later with another lawsuit group for 2011/2012 or 2013/2014 Leaf owner. This deal suck and scam at best, restore your battery pack to 9 Bar’s….sucker deal!

I had not though about this, but your reasoning is spot on.
They are going to do whatever they are going to do with the warranty "enhancement" regardless of my participation in the suit, so why should I surrender my ability to retaliate later?

I was promised a 100 mile car; I was sold a 70 mile car, and now I'm driving a 50 mile car after 10K miles.

I lost 14% of my pack capacity OVERNIGHT last month, and Nissan is calling it normal pack degradation?

My full charge is now 84%

I would feel a little less anxiety if I knew what a new cell and whole pack were going to cost, like I was promised.

Just so bizarre..........

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I would feel a little less anxiety if I knew what a new cell and whole pack were going to cost, like I was promised.

Just so bizarre..........

willing to put any money on that?

 

[surfingslovak]

I lost 14% of my pack capacity OVERNIGHT last month, and Nissan is calling it normal pack degradation?

My full charge is now 84%

Sorry, I missed that somehow. Was that because of the firmware update. Could you provide a link?

 

[Vuman]

Dave, here is a ramification for you if you don't opt-out of the settlement: This settlement will not affect most Leaf owners in cool climates like yourself who probably will not hit 8 bars in 60,000 miles or 5 years. However, will may absolve Nissan from any further liabilities if other "issues or problems with the battery" that may come up later that they can claim that "it is a degradation issue and falls under the Class Action Settlement".

Please tell me why you would want to stay in this Class Action Lawsuit?

you are right in that it does not affect me. its simply too little. 70% is a degradation level i cannot live with so I leased. I will probably see about 20% degradation after 3 years and 45,000+ miles (ya, i will go over!) and that is too much.

but you honestly think Nissan can use this settlement as an excuse to cover some other battery pack issue? not going to happen. we just file another lawsuit. that is how our society works. Nissan and others settle lawsuits to get the issue off the frontpage...

Dave, there are already people who are planning lawsuits along the lines of "Nissan making a defective battery causing excessive degradation issues" and Nissan may provide a better resolution to us. However, since you did not opt-out of this current lawsuit, Nissan may not extend the same benefit to you. Again, please tell me why would you stay in a lawsuit with no benefits to you and limit your future option?

 

[Vuman]

Dave,

I wouldn't be too trusting of Nissan. I find that it is disingenuous of them to mail us 11/12 Leaf owners letters extending the battery warranty to us in June and suddenly now if we stay in the lawsuit (as per line item #7, page 4 of the proposed settlement that we recieved this week:

"By staying part of the Settlement Class, Court orders will apply to you and you will give the Defendant and the selling or leasing dealer a "release." A release means you cannot sue or be part of any other lawsuit against the Defendant or the selling or leasing dealer about the claims or issues in this lawsuit ever again." "

and per line item #9, page 4:
By opting out you will not be entitled to receive the settlement benefits.